Unleashing the Mod from Hell

[litchfield]

My understanding is you can say whatever you damn well please in a PM

[Kevan]

I don't mean for it to come across as a limiting of free speech. What we're trying to do is improve the Forum and make it better for everyone. "F-ing this" and "C-ing that" in posts does nothing but bring the Forum down in character and intelligence. Setting up language guidelines is pretty painless for everyone. It also helps with the new folks who don't want to filter thru all the swearing just so they can get to the info they're looking for. Clean and professional, that's what we're going for. I'm pretty sure that's what you are all looking for as well.

And I'm certainly not going to castrate anyone for asking legit questions.

PM's are like email. Say what you please; type what you want. Just be sure to read it twice before you hit "Send". :-)

Further clarification about what can be said on TV:

For those outside the USA, please check Litchfield's notes about the networks in the US.

Thank you.

[skibum5545]

Just for an accurate frame of reference: is the patriot act for our own good?

You can just tell now that I'm gonna be one of the fiesty one's, can't ya?

[litchfield]

Dont get too fiesty, unless you are ready for the consequences.

[StratDudeDan]

you know what? this is fine. i totally agree with everything. i respect this site and the owners even more now.

i'm also slightly sucking up 'cause i like my avatar and really want to keep it...

[krazyderek]

meep meep meep meep!

[GregP]

I'm quite glad to see a stricter set of rules. I may be a neophyte myself (and hence not a part of the 'guitar-building community' in a trial-by-fire way just ye)t, but I also welcome the opportunity to see growth. In the previous environment, I didn't see any positive growth coming, though I was still happy with the status quo. Ie. I didn't DISLIKE anything that was going on, but I didn't see it as the avenue toward gaining the respect of new members.

Yeah, I took part in some of the vulgarities from time to time, and I'm no angel. But ultimately I'm happier with this.

Good move, Brian!

Greg

[truerussian558]

I see the point in making this forum more proffesional, but wont the limts on expression and fun, make anyone that goes to this forum think that we are a bunch of stuck up doddery old fools, and go away. I think all these limits (i understand the no swearing for the regular forums, but we doo need a place to vent steam), will discourage people from joining our community

[Ki swordsman]

damn, i know my sig is now an illegal resident.. but it looks so cool

mehmehmeh

[Scott Rosenberger]

I for one am Glad for the new changes

In case you haven't noticed, I haven't been posting nearly as much as I used to because I got tired of weeding through the nonsense every day. Maybe these new changes will address some of that.

Oh and Congrats on the promotion Kev

[JPL]

Add me to the "thank you very much" crowd.

[canuckguitarist]

damn, i know my sig is now an illegal resident.. but it looks so cool

mehmehmeh

relax, you've got 19 days until you have to change it

[daveq]

I'm all for improving the image of this forum and taking it to the next level and I'm glad it's starting to happen.

This site has always had a fun/free atmosphere and is the main reason why so many people like it here (or so I understand from reading previous threads on the subject). I'd really hate to see this place turn into Nazi central. As administrators, I would hope that you would foster an atmosphere that encourages respect and cooperation.

I am glad we are improving and setting our standards higher. I give Brian and the administrators a lot of credit for realizing the need for it and taking this on with determination.

[Kevan]

I see the point in making this forum more proffesional, but wont the limts on expression and fun, make anyone that goes to this forum think that we are a bunch of stuck up doddery old fools, and go away. I think all these limits (i understand the no swearing for the regular forums, but we doo need a place to vent steam), will discourage people from joining our community

I don't believe this to be true at all.

The only people it will discourage from joining us here are those that simply want to be jagoffs online. We're here to work on our projects and help others with theirs, using this Forum as a medium to pass our knowledge back and forth. We're not here to slam people because they got their hair cut a little short, or do 10 pages of who's the hottest non-hottie ever, or debate whether some political candidate is even remotely qualified to run for pubilc office in the first place.

If you need a place to vent, there are hundreds (thousands?) of other guitar-based forums that not only allow that, but some even encourage it.

If you want to throw the proverbial ball, you'll need to go outside.

How about these scenarios:

You're working on your project and want to ask the members what they think about YYYY bridge versus QQQQQ bridge. Dan Erlewine stops by to check out the thread. He'd like to post something, but he can't because there are 8 pages on how the banana avatar looked better than the new one.

Lisa Sharken wanted to drop in a few kind words on your LP project, but she doesn't have time to sort thru 4 pages of garbage.

Ok, the chances that Dan and Lisa will actually come here and post about our projects is pretty slim, but I do know that they read a lot of stuff online and help out folks when they can. They're more likely to do it in a place that's clean and professional, than in a place that looks like a Jeff Spicoli's room.

We're not trying to limit your speech or take away any fun. We're trying to get everyone focused on why they're here in the first place- to work on guitars.

[darren wilson]

I'm 100% behind this initiative. I already have avatars and sigs turned off, and wouldn't be sad to see them go away altogether.

I'm also one of those who has posted a lot less because of the garbage that's started to accumulate. It's really good to see commitment from Brian and Kevan to raise the standards, and keep this place as a useful resource. If people want to be idiots and waste everyone's time, or complain about their girlfriends or school or the job they hate, there are plenty of other places on the Internet where they can do that. Start a blog for cryin' out loud. This isn't the place for that stuff.

I guess this means i can't use my "BS" stamp any more?

[Kevan]

I guess this means i can't use my "BS" stamp any more?

LOL....save that one for special occasions, Darren.

[darren wilson]

Well, there's also the trusty "bad advice" stamp that every mod from hell should have in his arsenal.

[daveq]

That wading through pages of garbage thing can work both ways also -

The strat tutorial is at 20 pages now - I stopped reading it after 6 pages since almost every other post (probably more than that) is people admiring the author of the thread. I don't consider kind remarks garbage of course but if the idea is to cut down on the extra fluff in the threads, that's a prime candidate in my opinion.

From what I did read of it, it looked like a well documented thread on building a strat - what it seems to have turned into is a massive collection of thank you's and "you da man" with a bit of strat building buried somewhere in between.

Sorry for the rant - I just wanted to point out that if we'd like to keep things to the point, that would be a great place to start since it seems to be a valuable tutorial.

If this suggestion offends anyone - please don't misunderstand what I'm saying - showing appreciation is not nonsense but when you have to read through so many pages of it just to see what the next step was in the process, it gets very frustrating. Maybe a separate thread for comments on it would be a better way to go about it?

[Kevan]

That's a great point, Dave.

Threads like the one you pointed out will (eventually) get cleanded up and archived. All those back pats have to hurt after a while. :-)

With so many kickass guitar/bass/amp builders on this site, it's gonna take a while to get them all cleaned up.

Hey Darren- how come you didn't send me those stamps when I was a Mod back on 'that other site'? I REALLY could have used them. LMAO

[darren wilson]

I only made them a couple of months ago when things started getting out of hand here! You don't see as much wild, incoherent babble, baseless speculation and absolutely nonsensical 'theories' over there as we do here. (With the exception of the regular squabbles that flare up between GC and RH, of course! )

[Guitarfrenzy]

That wading through pages of garbage thing can work both ways also -

The strat tutorial is at 20 pages now  - I stopped reading it after 6 pages since almost every other post (probably more than that) is people admiring the author of the thread. I don't consider kind remarks garbage of course but if the idea is to cut down on the extra fluff in the threads, that's a prime candidate in my opinion.

From what I did read of it, it looked like a well documented thread on building a strat - what it seems to have turned into is a massive collection of thank you's and "you da man" with a bit of strat building buried somewhere in between.

Sorry for the rant - I just wanted to point out that if we'd like to keep things to the point, that would be a great place to start since it seems to be a valuable tutorial.

If this suggestion offends anyone - please don't misunderstand what I'm saying - showing appreciation is not nonsense but when you have to read through so many pages of it just to see what the next step was in the process, it gets very frustrating. Maybe a separate thread for comments on it would be a better way to go about it?

First off, daveq, I have no control over what people say or how they respond to the thread. I don't consider myself to be in the league of many that build guitars on this site, so that's not what the post is about either. I made this post because people asked me to, that's the only reason. If the post got out of hand it wasn't my fault, all I was doing is showing how we made a Strat. That's it.. point blank. I'm sorry it has offended you so badly that you keep bringing it up over and over. I have already edited all the other post out that didn't have to do with the building process and posted it on my own site.

Making Of A Strat

I don't understand how this thread has hurt anything. I don't hardly think it's as bad a the junk that's in the rant section, but the way you describe it, it's like the worst thing on the Message board. I think this is probably gonna be my last tutorial of any kind. I don't have to do those tutorials. I thought maybe it would help someone out with the guitar they are building, and from the responses I have gotten it seems like people have actually liked it and learned some from it. I really wish I knew what I did to make you so mad at me, because it seems like your really got it out for me lately. If I did anything to offend you, then I'm sorry. I guess I'll just quit posting any information at all, and just read the boards.

[daveq]

Wow, I must have forgotten mentioning it before? I think you may have jumped to a few conclusions on this - I consider that tutorial valuable to this site and very well documented. Where did you get the idea that I have it out for you?

That tutorial would be even more valuable if it were scaled down to your work + the Q&A in my opinion. Keeping the kind remarks and praise in a separate thread wouldn't be that bad would it? That way, everyone can use the tutorial a bit more easily.

It's very difficult to judge people's intentions on these internet forums because you're missing the tone in the persons voice, their facial expressions, ... That's why I try not to express opinions like this very often that might upset people. When I noticed that one of the objectives here was to cut out the fluff in the threads in order to allow newb's to quickly assess the site and value of the thread - I immediately thought of your tutorial thread since it has grown so large.

I'm really surprised at your reaction to this. If I have disagreed with you on issues in the past, please don't take offense - that stuff happens here - and I've seen it get much uglier than anything you and I might have disagreed on. What's going on?

but the way you describe it, it's like the worst thing on the Message board

My memory must be worse than I thought - what did I say?

[skibum5545]

I find the new "no congratulatory remarks" rule unfair, unreasonable, and borderline offensive.

Since Guitarfrenzy's superb strat seems to be such a prime example, I figure I'll use it. I like that strat a lot, and this is coming from a non-stratlover here. That guitar made me realize that even a design I don't like too well can be made to look superb with a little thought, good design choices, and a lot of skill. But god forbid I would have the audacity to let guitarfrenzy know that his guitar has changed my view of luthiery as an art because you don't want to have to tire out your scrolling finger? Does anyone else here see this as slightly lopsided?

Of course, we could always do what was done with the GOTM thread, and have one thread for guitarfrenzy's posts and one for comments. But then we have twice as many threads, that don't always stay together, and clutter things up even more. There is one way to make them stay together: put them in the same thread.

Here's a novel idea: scroll until you see guitarfrenzy's name as the poster, or his avatar, or maybe a post with pictures in it! Chances are those will be the relevant ones.

I know personally when I built my first bass, it was nice to get the "great job" comments as well as the constructive criticisms. If all anyone said was things pointing what was wrong with my bass, then I can be pretty (insert your favorite expletive) sure I wouldn't be starting my second one right now. I'm sure that's not the reaction you're aiming for, but I'm sure that that's the reaction you severely risk getting.

I've always found MIMF unapproachable for the very elements that you are trying so hard to implement in this forum. I like this forum because the people here are nice, and they're accepting of people who gave it their all, and people who want to get started. I have become active here because I feel that the people are people that are fun to chat about guitars with, as well as build them. There are plenty of guitar forums on the web, but I come to this one for the very things you are trying to get rid of: it's relaxed, people speak their mind, and there is a friendly-natured rant section where one can simply "hang out" with people they "know" without moderators breathing down their necks about what they can say or do.

I'm not against change, and on cracking down on members who aren't serious about building, but totalitarian "martial law" tactics are not the way to approach the problem.

[daveq]

But god forbid I would have the audacity to let guitarfrenzy know that his guitar has changed my view of luthiery as an art because you don't want to have to tire out your scrolling finger?

Can you explain this - I don't understand what you mean.

If you are saying that I'm too lazy to scroll - you're missing the point. I'll wait until I understand your quote better.

[Guitarfrenzy]

We'll I just found it funny that you singled my post out to make an example of. But ultimately it's best to just drop this, because I have no intentions of coming to this message board to get into arguements. I think I'll take a long break from the message board after today though. I need to reconsider if it's worth even posting at all. I'd be better off just building and keeping my information to myself.