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Unleashing the Mod from Hell


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I find the new "no congratulatory remarks" rule unfair, unreasonable, and borderline offensive.

WHOA! Someone throw that boy a life preserver....he's WAY overboard. On second though, call the Coast Guard...we're gonna need a bigger boat.

(I watched Jaws the other night. LOL)

Where did ANYONE lay down that rule?

Please link us to it. I totally missed it.

Since Guitarfrenzy's superb strat seems to be such a prime example, I figure I'll use it. I like that strat a lot, and this is coming from a non-stratlover here. That guitar made me realize that even a design I don't like too well can be made to look superb with a little thought, good design choices, and a lot of skill. But god forbid I would have the audacity to let guitarfrenzy know that his guitar has changed my view of luthiery as an art because you don't want to have to tire out your scrolling finger? Does anyone else here see this as slightly lopsided?

Of course, we could always do what was done with the GOTM thread, and have one thread for guitarfrenzy's posts and one for comments. But then we have twice as many threads, that don't always stay together, and clutter things up even more. There is one way to make them stay together: put them in the same thread.

Here's a novel idea: scroll until you see guitarfrenzy's name as the poster, or his avatar, or maybe a post with pictures in it! Chances are those will be the relevant ones.

I know personally when I built my first bass, it was nice to get the "great job" comments as well as the constructive criticisms. If all anyone said was things pointing what was wrong with my bass, then I can be pretty (insert your favorite expletive) sure I wouldn't be starting my second one right now. I'm sure that's not the reaction you're aiming for, but I'm sure that that's the reaction you severely risk getting.

I've always found MIMF unapproachable for the very elements that you are trying so hard to implement in this forum. I like this forum because the people here are nice, and they're accepting of people who gave it their all, and people who want to get started. I have become active here because I feel that the people are people that are fun to chat about guitars with, as well as build them. There are plenty of guitar forums on the web, but I come to this one for the very things you are trying to get rid of: it's relaxed, people speak their mind, and there is a friendly-natured rant section where one can simply "hang out" with people they "know" without moderators breathing down their necks about what they can say or do.

I'm not against change, and on cracking down on members who aren't serious about building, but totalitarian "martial law" tactics are not the way to approach the problem.

You're missing my (and I think Dave's) point.

5 pages of project progress and then 15 pages of atta-boy's is what we're talking about (correct me if I'm wrong Dave). We LOVE seeing praise from other members about a member's project. That's what makes this site so cool.

I'd love to see 700 pages of atta-boys, as long as the first pages contain the info.

What we're going to CLEAN UP are the posts related to the project, and put them all in line with the rest of the info....and *leave* all the back pats at the end of the thread (chronology might hinder this sometimes, but you get the idea).

Frenzy- cool idea with the link.

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You guys got a good point, but iI find it really difficult to have the info on the 1st pager as you say, and then the congrat's at the end, because that was a inprogress tutorial, real time! If he had taken all the pics and then posted the tutorial... It would have been completely different. Rules are Rules, in my opinion, there should be a new rule book made, (one that all the MODS and the Admin agree upon) then PIN it to the anouncement area, and have everybody reply to it, like a newbie kinda thing, that way it's like "the Laws of the Forum" and we can all live in peace. :D

my .02

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Why not just extract the pertinent content and/or link to Frenzy's cleaned-up tutorial on his own site? I would say leave the thread how it is, but put cleaned-up tutorials in the tutorials section of the ProjectGuitar main site. Maybe set up sub-sections there for solidbodies, hollowbodies, electronics, finishing, etc. that reflect the structure of the forum. Then pin a link to the archives in the forum sections.

The main site should be for static and archived information, and the forum the place for discussion. Using the forum for archiving useful content will result in pages of pinned threads at the top of every section.

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If you guys can come up with a better way, we'd love to hear it.

I have nothing against changing the way the In Progress section is handled. My point is that I was singled out, when there are tons more out there that was the same way. When I posted that pictorial, there was no rules like this, so why make a point of even mentioning that it was the Strat one? Every post in that section has responses like mine got, Setch's, LGM's, etc. etc. Why was it that I was singled out? That's all I wonder about?

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I'm still blown away by the response to my suggestion.

All I wanted to do is use that tutorial as a showcase thread for this site. Anyone comming to this place for the first time would be impressed by that tutorial but I think they would get a little frustrated with having to go through 20+ pages when they could have read through it in much less.

Instead of a "yeah that might be good" or "no, I don't think that would help" - I get accused of attacking someone. It must be the way I worded it. I probably could have made the suggestion in a more caring manner.

I had a feeling that I would be misunderstood and that's why I tried to explain it further toward the end of my post. I LIKE THE TUTORIAL! I THINK WE SHOULD SHOW IT OFF TO THE WORLD!! Before calling it done (whenever that is), I only wanted to suggest presenting it differently than it currently is. I was not trying to take anyone's praise away or belittle the work done. AGAIN - I LIKE THE TUTORIAL!

I hate quoting people and responding but I don't know how else to do this:

I really wish I knew what I did to make you so mad at me, because it seems like your really got it out for me lately.

Nothing! I must have done something to make you feel this way though I don't know?

but the way you describe it, it's like the worst thing on the Message board

What did I say? I don't mean that in an argumentative manner - I don't remember saying anything to that effect but maybe I did and just don't remember?

The thing that really bothers me about all of this is that I was genuinely trying to make that tutorial easier to read. Most tutorials don't have any conversation in them but I realize this was done on the fly and is a bit different. That's whay I was suggesting leaving the Q&A portions and just moving the other non-substance replies somewhere else. You seem to think that I blame you for the amount of praise in that thread but I never made any such accusation and the amount of praise isn't what I'm talking about - just the location of it. Of course you are not to blame (well, you work is responsible for it in a good way) - I don't know why you would think that I would pin that on you?

I think the main thing is that your tutorial was not done in the traditional sense of a tutorial where someone compiles a series of steps/instructions and presents it as a guide. Yours was done day-to-day. I think it is worthy of looking at from a distance and seeing if it can be put into the traditional format since it makes it easier for people to use.

If it were just a post of completed work, I would never suggest that people cannot put comments in the thread - that would be insane.

I really don't appreciate being put in the position to have to defend my suggestion. I know how easy it is to misunderstand someone on these internet forums so I don't hold it against you - all I wanted to do is help make it better.

Peace?

P.S. the reason I mentioned the strat tutorial is because I read that Brian and Kevan are trying to take this site to another level. I think that tutorial would help impress others who might stop by. I thought it was worthy of cleaning up and showing off - that's all - nothing personal at all.

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Daveq, I've never had anything against anyone on this forum and I certainly don't have anything against you. I admit that I got a little carried away, but when I first read the post I felt I was singled out for no reason. Sorry if I took it the wrong way, because I did. I also understand where your coming from on the issue of having a cluttered up tutorial with other people's post. It can clutter things up sometimes, but ultimately Brain has said he was gonna redo it for the main site anyway. I have brought the stuff over to my site as well, and it only has the building post in it also. I can't help the fact that my post had alot of feedback, and I can't stop someone from posting under it. That's up to the mods to handle. If they want to change the rules, then fine, I can live with that. I'm sorry we had this little arguement, and let's just put this behind us.. Peace!!!

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Doh!!! :D

I didn't know Brian was doing another version of it for the main site. Forget I ever mentioned it. In that case, there's probably no reason to do anything to the one in the forum site except maybe provide a link to the main one on the first page of it (maybe)? Sorry for the confusion.

Peace is a good thing. B)

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[edit] I spent about 20 minutes creating a post that is not only grammatically correct, but diplomatic, well-crafted, and clear about my position as well as containing a reasonable solution. During the time, daveq has the sheer audacity to apologize for the misunderstanding, negating all this post stands for, and in fact all of its literal content as well! How dare he?!! I'm going to leave it as an exercise in the power of diplomatic rhetoric, but take it only as such, please. [/edit]

I'd love to see 700 pages of atta-boys, as long as the first pages contain the info.

I'd understand where you were coming from, if everyone on the forum each contributed a page of atta-boys. I believe I personally commented twice: Once at the beginning to say I look forward to seeing this thing completed, and once near the end to say I loved how it turned out. THat seems more or less reasonable to me.

The very existence of the tutorials and reference section seems to qualify a 20 page thread, even if it's mostly atta-boys. The 20-pager wasn't a tutorial, it was an in progress guitar. THe tutorial is the end result, even if all it is is the first thread cleaned up. What you're asking for is for guitarfrenzy to build the guitar start to finish with no outside input, post it as a tutorial, and then accept comments and questions, as well as atta-boys. It's one approach, but then we completely eliminate the outside input factor, and the forum turns into a gallery with the phrase, "Questions/comments? Call 1-800-GF-STRAT!" tacked onto the bottom. And again, we end up at the multiple thread idea, but God knows we've had enough trouble with unnecessary threads! Or, the thread is fine as it is, and for those who don't want to scroll through the atta-boys and only read guitarfrenzy's posts, wait for the tutorial to come out at the end.

If this suggestion offends anyone - please don't misunderstand what I'm saying - showing appreciation is not nonsense but when you have to read through so many pages of it just to see what the next step was in the process, it gets very frustrating

daveq, all I'm trying to say is that if you don't want to read the atta-boys, don't. The easiest way to find the content is that it's posted by guitarfrenzy. A clean form of it is great as the end product, but when one person says they like it, we shouldn't all have to think to ourselves, "I agree", and not tell GF that we like his guitar. We just need to make the distinction between a suitable thread and a suitable end product, that's all.

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daveq, all I'm trying to say is that if you don't want to read the atta-boys, don't. The easiest way to find the content is that it's posted by guitarfrenzy.

I think this is where we aren't connecting on this. It doesn't really matter now that I know that there will be another version of it available on the main site but here's what I meant:

If someone wanted to use it as a guide or reference, they'd have to click through 20 pages of posts to find what they wanted instead of a smaller amount if that stuff was moved elsewhere. If you're reading through it from start to finish then, yes, of course you can just skip the parts you aren't interested in. You'd still have to get through more pages but like I said - it doesn't really matter now that I've learned that there will be another version of it at the end. For a newcommer, I thought it would be great if it could be presented as a formal tutorial instead of the current format - not realizing there was a plan for doing that already.

BTW (anyone)-

Are those sections supposed to be for tutorials or threads that will be turned into tutorials later? I don't see a description under the titles like the other sections have. I can't seem to find any info on them - it's probably there somewhere but I'm not able to find it.

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I don't have the experince to suggest to much but Ithink that there are a lot more stuff that need to be cleaned up! Like this thread that's pinned, FOR WHAT? no useful info on it. I think that tutorials like the Strat, should be cleaned up and then pinned on the tutorial sections, this can sum up to be too much work for the MODS, so my suggestion is to have the person that did it, in this case guitarfrenzy to come up with a condensed version submitted to Brian or any of the Mods and then pinned it or post it were it belongs. The inprogress thread should remain the same, since that's what it is, in-progress, real time comments are being made to it, I like doing this my self because I can get the opinions and advise of the more experience guys, if I'm doing somenthing wrong, you can correct me, and if I do somenthing that you do different you may find my way better of easier, that's why I joined here. Most of the people are not up tight like on other forums that I have browsed, and the administrator is easily aprochable as the Mods, to mention a few of the others that I have aproached and had a great deal of help, Jeremy(LGM), Drak, Myka... so the way it is works, change it if you will but not to a radical point that it will make it hard for us to get the help we need, or the comments from somebody that might make us change outr mind before we commit somenthing awfull to a guitar .

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If it's gonna be changed, which I have said, and will say again really doesn't concern me. Then this should be changed so it's not so misleading then. Because this is what the In Progress has underneath it presently.

In Progress and Finished Work

A place to post pictures of your finished and in progress work for comments!

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it is perfectly reasonable to take out all the extraneous comments after a tutorial is completed and before it is pinned(or archived)

i don't think anyone is suggesting that you shouldn't be able to say "looks great" or whatever,as many times as you want...but why expect those comments to stay in the pinned one?

seems like alot of people are trying hard to get their feelings hurt? :D

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For the most part all of these changes will effect hardly anyone as before. It's just time for the forum to evolve into more of what it should be to begin with.

Personally I think with all of the mini rant's and pickin on this and that which have been going on especially in the rant section more people were offended or bothered then what is about to take place.

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If you guys can come up with a better way, we'd love to hear it.

I have nothing against changing the way the In Progress section is handled. My point is that I was singled out, when there are tons more out there that was the same way. When I posted that pictorial, there was no rules like this, so why make a point of even mentioning that it was the Strat one? Every post in that section has responses like mine got, Setch's, LGM's, etc. etc. Why was it that I was singled out? That's all I wonder about?

i think that your tut was brought up because its the most recent and talked about one, and therefore most relevant.

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Ah the hammer of justice is now in Kevan's hand..

Or shall I say fingers!! B)

Congrats.. (well sorta) on the admin ops..

BTW: it was great hanging with you Rachel again at Bobs and Namm!!

Really wished we had more time to rip it up...

Trying to talk bob into going to the winter show so maybe that will be the next reunion :D

And thanks for letting me fondle the Egypt :D

See ya~!

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Jezus K. Rist this so easy it almost hurts. Basics, people, basics.

1) Everyone stop trying to manipulate this forum, OK?

Leave that to it's owners and Mods, they'll do a great job if you get off their asses and leave them alone to do their jobs as they see fit.

You do your job (building guitars, and when you have an extra second, help the next guy out down the line), and you let them do theirs.

2) Concentrate on building guitars. GOOD guitars. You bastids! :D

3) To quote JFK, ask not what your forum can do for you ...but what you can do for your forum. Try worrying about helping out where you can.

4) We are guests here, contributing members or no, so act like you would if someone offered you a free dinner when you were destitute and homeless, and offered you inside their home and fed you for no particular reason.

6) Internet Forums are constantly living, evolving, changing, things. Get used to change. Change is good. If you don't like the changes, there is a door. Doors aren't always bad things, they are sometimes passageways to your next world.

Be flexable enough to roll with the changes.

I will see you all at the finish line if you have the GUTS to see your projects all the way thru to plug-in-and-turn-that-muthu-f****r-up day.

Dave and GF, I love you both. You both rock this place, OK? B):D:D

Adult squabbles.....yeccccch! You BOTH rock! And if you were both sitting at the bar next to each other, you would be the closest friends in (my estimate) ...under 15 minutes.

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it is perfectly reasonable to take out all the extraneous comments after a tutorial is completed and before it is pinned(or archived)

i don't think anyone is suggesting that you shouldn't be able to say "looks great" or whatever,as many times as you want...but why expect those comments to stay in the pinned one?

  seems like alot of people are trying hard to get their feelings hurt? :D

Bingo. Thanks Wes.

The InProgress topic will remain as is. I'm not sure why that one is pinned, but I'll check with Brian and the other Mods and see wassabi with it.

Drak's got the right idea, but if ANY member sees something kooky or in the wrong topic area or whatever, please let an Admin or Mod know about it. We try like hell to check every thread, every hour of every day, but sometimes stuff slips through.

As stated a couple of times thus far, the threads will remain as threads (in chronological order), until it's time for them to become a full-on tutorial. Then the TUTORIAL will be cleaned up, but not until it's time to move it. The original topic will remain open, untouched, for all questions and comments. The TUTORIAL will be on the main site; the ORIGINAL THREAD will remain on the Forum. The TUTORIAL will have a link to the ORIGINAL THREAD.

I'll make a map if anyone needs one....

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GF, your Strat tut was one of the bloody highlights of the entire year on PG AFAIC.

Rest yer soul at peace dude, you done good, ...reaaaal good. :D

I'd love to 'lay hands' on that little darlin' fer shure. :D  :D  :D

Thanks Drak, but I was close to getting banned until you came along and cleared everything up.. lol

B)

oh btw your still using too many smilies.. lol

Can I say BANNED!!!!!

Before you leave, can I have Mr. Bones?

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