rsera Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Hi Gnome, I was also looking in to this same thing and I dont know if $1000 will be enough to get a good router done and the whole electronics part of it will be rather expensive. To get a good resolution you have to see how many millimeters progression you have per turn(1 turn = 3mm)also how many steps the stepper motor has will also be a factor in the resolutuion200 steps per turn or 400 and can your controller card do full,half,quarter,eight steps which will increase the resolution and then there is the backlash problem and a lot of other things that can go wrong. For hardwood the motor will need to be around 2 or 3 ampere otherwise the backlash may increase. If you want to do metal on the router you will also need a way to use a coolent which is bad for the wood. One other thing is that a 3 axis router wont do the conteurs and so these will have to be done by hand unless you build a 5 axis router with a B & C axis. www.cnczone.com may be able to help with further questions you may have. good luck with your router Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 monkey, any 'cnc' thats made to do stuff 4x4' isnt going to be extremely accurate and for the money youll spend on that it would prolly be easier to make a copy carver. now if you want to mill small metal parts then a small scale cnc is the only route. stepper motors are high torque (the higher the NEMA number the larger/more powerful it is, average NEMA size motor i see is 20-35) very small increment revolution motors. way different then usual ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted September 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 monkey, any 'cnc' thats made to do stuff 4x4' isnt going to be extremely accurate and for the money youll spend on that it would prolly be easier to make a copy carver. now if you want to mill small metal parts then a small scale cnc is the only route. stepper motors are high torque (the higher the NEMA number the larger/more powerful it is, average NEMA size motor i see is 20-35) very small increment revolution motors. way different then usual ones. asm, large workareas (i.e. 4'x4' or larger) and accuracy are absolutetly NOT mutually exclusive. If the machine is properly designed, with quality parts, factors such as backlash can be minimized. I've been reading a bit about minimizing backlash, and it will be a problem... but I've seen some novel, inexpensive methods to reduce the problem. remember, were talking about routing guitar bodies here, not precision parts for aircraft. id feel guilty if i were to just slap a blank down and have the machine do ALL of the work, eheh. some elbow grease will be needed to produce the final product... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 can a carver cut that deep for a guitar? If does, where can i buy one for a good price? Also how accurate is it because it looks like you have to sand like crazy to get it to a decent smooth wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPL Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 can a carver cut that deep for a guitar? If does, where can i buy one for a good price? Also how accurate is it because it looks like you have to sand like crazy to get it to a decent smooth wood? The CopyCarver site will tell you everything you need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 i think i would rather go with a cnc mill anyone know where to buy one for a good price. Besides auctions.Cant find any vendtors yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted September 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 i think i would rather go with a cnc mill anyone know where to buy one for a good price. Besides auctions.Cant find any vendtors yet. how much is your budget? by the time you add it all up... They get very, very expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 well when time comes i want to buy a 4' by 4' for about 3000 or less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthier Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Monkey, here is a website that compares a number of CNC machines. The prices are listed on the far right, the first two colums list the X & Y axis travel. The closest one to 4' x 4' is the FlexiCAM LX priced at $14,430... Larrivee Guitars uses Fadal CNC's, they are large enclosed machines with an area of maybe 5' x 7' inside. They are around $100,000 each... I really don't think you need a CNC machine, at the most a dupli-carver, and I really don't think you'll have the demand for even a dupli-carver to help with building guitars, at least not for a while. Do you even have the room for anything like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 (edited) Well at the moment i have the plans to make small parts too. I have a new disign for the input jack that requires small pieces so i would need it for that too. Can a dupilcarver do small metal aluminum parts? I mean if a caliper can cut alumium im sure that can but want to make sure, so does anyone know?( i know a caliper can cut aluminum because in my robotics team i need to make marks in the aluminum motor mounts for the drill to go. It left marks really easily so it can prabaly cut one.) Lex thats one of the coolest scketchs from SNL. Its only good if the cow bell is in it. LOL Edited September 16, 2004 by monkey69962000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGHbuilder86 Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Hey Monkey, I’m not trying to sound mean or anything, but there is really no quick way to learn to build a perfect guitar. A CNC machine could help but it’s not the answer to being able to build a perfect guitar. I got into guitar making at about age 15, I am now 18, and I’m am working on my fifth guitar and are just now reaching selling quality. When people are looking to buy a handmade guitar they want it absolutely perfect! In fact they are harder on us than they are on factory’s. If I were you I would just build'em by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 well i need at least a 1 foot by 1 foot cnc because once again i need to build small little custom parts Can a regular mill make the parts or no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Lex , you said here is the site, but where is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthier Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Lex , you said here is the site, but where is it I never relized I didn't add the link. HERE is the link, the prices are on the far right. Again, the closet to 4' x 4' is the FlexiCAM LX at $14,430. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 well i need at least a 1 foot by 1 foot cnc because once again i need to build small little custom parts Can a regular mill make the parts or no. www.taigtools.com is gonna be your best bet for a small mill like that to start off with. they have hand and cnc ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 I don't know why but I feel like I'm having flashback of camcools dreaded thread. Is great to dream but keep them into your reality. The companies that are using CNC machinery right know are companies that have been established for quite a while, and started doing everything by hand, and now have the money to get this machinery. like PRS on guitars and people like the OCC on bikes. I think they are great machines, but not for the faint of "pocket". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthier Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Monkey, have you even built a guitar? I suggest you get REAL good at building them by hand first. Yeah, a CNC would cut out bodies and neck real quick, but it won't do the other important steps that go into building a guitar, such as: Designing, wood selection, joining/gluing up, finishing, fretting, nut work, hardware installation, wiring, intonation/action setup, and of course SELLING them. I suggest you get REAL good at what's listed above before you even THINK about a CNC machine, or you'll just have dozens of necks and bodies lying around your workshop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Well one and a half guitars. My first guitar i did a lot of customizing by switching to better parts. My first hand made guitar is being painted right now. I need help with the paint i want but if you want to help then post it in the ilay section under will this paint work. IT think its called that. Well i really want one because my spidy guitar... IF ANYONE REMEBERS IT. Well anyways i dont want to cut that out by the band saw. Way to hard. I wanted to do mulitple copies of it too. The Wood selection and fretting will be my only problems, because i got a premade neck and the original body was shaped, but i redid a lot of the body with the fiberglass filler. I went crazy with the stuff. The body camed cracked thats why. But i have built a guitar. The spidy guitar is mainly why though i need a CNC. Its going to be a summer project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirapop Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Monkey, you need a 1'X1' CNC to make small custom parts? Are the parts metal? Then you really need to build a smelter to process the the stock you'll use. Oh and a mine for the raw materials you'll use... right? If you don't know how CNC systems work or where to find out about them, you definitely shouldn't buy/build a CNC system. If you want parts CNC'd, it's much cheaper and easier to have someone else do them. Do you have a CAD program? Have you taken the time to really know how to use it? You have to be able to make a solid or a 2D pattern before you or anyone else can CNC a part. Do you need CNC? You say you need CNC because cutting out your spidy guitar with a bandsaw is way too hard. You clearly have not concept of how difficult, expensive, and time consuming it is to build your own CNC system. Summer project? You could spend years collecting the parts and trying to get it to work. You're clearly looking for a shortcut to building guitars. Here's your solution: pay someone to build your guitar. It might seem expensive, up front, but, it's going to end up costing you less than buying/building a CNC system and all the wood you're going to scrap while you learn how to get it to work. You'd get your guitar sooner and it will be a better quality instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 need a mine for the raw materials. lol that post is comical right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted September 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 monkey, You seem to want dive into the CNC pool before dipping your toe in first. The bottom line is this: You need to do a literal CRAPLOAD (for lack of a better term) of research before buying any kind of cnc machine. $3000 for a cnc machine? I'd say the $3000 cnc machine is a bit of a pipe dream, unless it is of questionable quality. The development costs alone make a $3k machine impossible. You'll see base machines advertised for $5000-7500, but by the time you add on all the additional items in order to make the machine do what you want it to do... you've all of a sudden broken $10k ... easily. Plus you really need to be fluent in CNC-ese before talking to any of these sales guys or engineers. There are several books Id be happy to recommend if youre really interested. I'm about $1200 into my endevour, and I still need to by quite a few more parts before I can start putting things together. Then, I'll need to shell out some money for milling work, luckily I know some people in the business, so this won't be too bad. After that, I'll still need to demo and purchase software. And while there are packages out there for $100-500 that will provide the bare bones milling routines, eventually I'm going to have to spend some serious cake if I want the machine to be able do anything close to serious. My interest in CNCs is turning into a really serious hobby, rather than just some idea i thought up one afternoon. I'm willing to spend some cash to make a machine that ultimately will be able to give me a bit of return on my investment. If not, then I have a cool machine that I can make all kinds of stuff with. Guitars are really, and have always been an afterthought as far as the machine goes. I got interested in guitar building so I could hand craft guitars, not so I could have a machine do all the work. Im not against using the machine to rough out bodies and necks now and then though, or perform some scary cuts that I dont have the guts to make yet, or rout out necks and bodies for other people. But ill probably stick to the sharp chisel method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Ok is there any other type of mill that works with a computer that can cut a body from a CAD fill thats 3000 or less. It doesnt have to be cnc. I realized i just needed a computer operated mill. Or is that what CNC means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky1 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 (edited) Edited September 19, 2004 by lucky1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 but for the dupli carver i would need to have one already built i need to have one built by my cad well how much would it cost for a duplicarver for a 4 by 4 foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky1 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 (edited) Edited September 19, 2004 by lucky1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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