Stew Mac's New Tools

[Guitarfrenzy]

I got the new Stew Mac catalog in Friday and noticed they had some new interesting tools. They have a new Aluminum Radius-sanding Beam that looks promising, should do great fretjobs, but the price is kinda high.

They also have some new Micro Mesh Finishing Pads that looks like would work great for various applications.

Also, it looks like they finally decided to start making Dan's Fret Barber that came up in a recent discussion on how to properly file down fret barbs. I'll probably buy one of these if I get into much repair work.

Last but not least, for all you people who want to build their own Pickups. They have Pickup Kits for making humbucker or single coil pickups on your own.

Any opinions on these new items..?

[rhoads56]

i want to marry stewmac

[rhoads56]

now im very excited!!

[Guitarfrenzy]

Yeah forgot to mention those set of tools.

[kench]

PRICES ARE TOO HIGH!!!

Well.. it's sure that StewMac has a great creative staff, developing tools for the business. I really respect that and I believe they deserve some amount of that price for their development, creative work.

But since I know that the production cost of that tool for StewMac is not more than $5, I cannot pay $116 for an aluminium radius block. That is too much!!.

Also I admire their photographer. Those rough hand tools couldn't look fancier than they look on those photos. They really say "buy me.. buy me..."..

Great new tools again... and thanks to StewMac for the effort of the development.. but the prices are not that fair.

[rhoads56]

PRICES ARE TOO HIGH!!!

Well.. it's sure that StewMac has a great creative staff, developing tools for the business. I really respect that and I believe they deserve some amount of that price for their development, creative work.

But since I know that the production cost of that tool for StewMac is not more than $5, I cannot pay $116 for an aluminium radius block. That is too much!!.

Also I admire their photographer. Those rough hand tools couldn't look fancier than they look on those photos. They really say "buy me.. buy me..."..

Great new tools again... and thanks to StewMac for the effort of the development.. but the prices are not that fair.

Find me aluminium extruded blocks, that are machined to those radiuses, under that price (or any price), and i'll buy you one. Yeah, right, thought so...

$116 for a tool that WILL last the entire length of my career, is damn cheap, in anyones language. Thats $11.60 over ten guitars, $5.80 over twenty guitars, $1.60 over a hundred....

If you can do it cheaper, then i suggest you've got yourself a market. Go forth and start making my friend, because i would LOVE to be there in 12 months to take advantage of your bankrupcy sale.

[bigdguitars]

not everyone can go to market and produce 20 guitars. If you build one or two guitars a year, and you need some basic tools, it is a little pricy.

Its not like they have a 18 wooden blocks.

[rhoads56]

...and if your not making guitars that regularly, you dont need these time saving tools either... whats your point?

[Devon Headen]

I think that's some fine new stuff they have. I'll probably stick to wood radius blocks. The one thing I saw I couldn't live without is the TOM bridge jack. That's what you call a useful tool. Next time I fire up the forge I'll probably make one. Looks pretty simple. I'm definitely getting some of those micro mesh pads, though. Someday I'll probably get the other TOM tools also.

[Maiden69]

$116 for a tool that WILL last the entire length of my career, is damn cheap, in anyones language. Thats $11.60 over ten guitars, $5.80 over twenty guitars, $1.60 over a hundred....

$1.16 ~100.

You are right Perry, it do looks expensive until you think in the long run. And that extruded block cost about 30-40 and in a decent machine shop the radius will cost about 50. All the extra money is research and development costs. I though about doint the same but for the straight edge one that they sell.

[Lex Luthier]

Kench is right about some of their tools being expensive, but Perry is also right about their value in the long run - that's why I just dropped over $1,100 on a new thickness sander Saturday. Right now I may just be building musical instruments as a hobby, but I'll be doing it the rest of my life, so it's worth it.

[kench]

Find me aluminium extruded blocks, that are machined to those radiuses, under that price (or any price), and i'll buy you one. Yeah, right, thought so...

$116 for a tool that WILL last the entire length of my career, is damn cheap, in anyones language. Thats $11.60 over ten guitars, $5.80 over twenty guitars, $1.60 over a hundred....

If you can do it cheaper, then i suggest you've got yourself a market. Go forth and start making my friend, because i would LOVE to be there in 12 months to take advantage of your bankrupcy sale.

But since I know that the production cost of that tool for StewMac is not more than $5, I cannot pay $116 for an aluminium radius block.

English isn't my mother language but I believe my sentence in the second quote is clear enough. I was trying to say that it is StewMac who can make that tool for around $5 maybe for a little more but most probably for a less. And since I know that.. it is ME who is not going to pay that money.

I really don't understand your temper for my post. You know your business better than I do. If you think $116.95 for each radius beams worth it, then I say go for it.

You can make that tool... but yes.. you should have or have access to few machinery that are expensive. The result will not look fancy and it might not have that comfortable handle side that StewMac's tool has. But a tool that does the same work can be done for a reasonable price compared to $116.95

Well I'm not a luthier and not planning to start a professional career on anything about guitars. But I produce 0.75 mm thick glasses for watch and jewellery industry which needs 100 times more accuracy than a fret work. And all the machines in our factory are made by us. Except the 20 year-old big lathe that we use to make our machine parts. So I know what you can do with tools.

Although StewMac makes some very good tools and jigs for a very reasonable price, let's take a look at this fancy tool:

Machine Head Drill Jig = $44.63

And another $44.63 if you need both two bushing sizes. Is it really hard to make a jig that keeps your drill aligned to the peghead? Or is it really hard to drill a peghead nicely by hand?

And 16-ounce bottle of Titebond Glue = $7.97. The 1 quart of it (32 ounces) is for $6.50 in a local lumber store.

Quartersawn mahogany neck blank

StewMac price = $22.90

Lumberstore price for Honduran Mahogany (Swietenia Macrophylla) = around $15

Lumberstore price for African Mahogany= $10 (Khaya Ivorensis) and $6.50 (Sapele - Etandrophragma cylindricum)

Lumberstore price for 200 cm*20 cm*5 cm of Flame Maple is for $20!!!

Well StewMac is generally an expensive shop. Some of their products are cheap but some are just robbery. But as long as I build my own guitars, I will keep buying some stuff from them. I admire creativity and none of the other shops or luthiers do such effort on development.

[bigdguitars]

perry,

don't know how you would get a level fretboard if you were doing it by hand. a 18 inch board is a lot better than the 4 and 8 blocks that they sell. How would you propose getting a good radius with out the proper tools?

_____

Cost vs. value

You can buy electronics a heck of a lot cheaper than stu mac, but you can place one order from them and get it all at the same time.

There is a limited set of luthier tools out there. They own the market, wait till grizzly jumps in, they are just getting started.

The tools are pretty basic in many cases. its not like the Bridge lifter can't be made by yourself.

[javacody]

I think that Stew-Mac is aiming more towards the professional for these tools than the hobbyist. It seems that professional quality tools are always quite a bit more expensive than entry level tools and the tools themselves are highly specialized in that they are meant to do one job really well. If you were repairing/building many guitars, that tool could potentially significantly shorten the amount of time to do a fret level.

I think that Stew-Mac is kind of like a luthier version of Wal-Mart. They have some things real cheap to get you in the door, and while you are there, you are going to pickup glue, etc, even though it is more expensive, you are having an order shipped anyway, and you will save on shipping.

Personally, I don't think there are many luthier tools that a luthier couldn't make for himself, given the drive, time, and some experimentation.

Edited October 5, 2004 by javacody

[rhoads56]

perry,

don't know how you would get a level fretboard if you were doing it by hand. a 18 inch board is a lot better than the 4 and 8 blocks that they sell. How would you propose getting a good radius with out the proper tools?

How did people do it 20 years ago, prior to Stewmac?? You couldnt buy a radius sanding block of any size.

A hobbyist is much better off buying a pre-radiused fretboard, and starting from there.

[fehgalloway]

As a total Newbie, i find it a little annoying that their prices are so high for most things...

But having said that, most of things that are expensive, i can do without.

For the amount of guitars I'm making, I'll need next to no specialty tools, maybe only a few fret files and alike...other than that, you can either do without the rest or make something similar yourself...I find it enjoying trying to figure out how to make an el-cheapo version of some of there tools...all part of the fun, I guess (maybe I'm crazy)

If I was a professional luthier, not only would I have need for all that fancy gear, BUT more importantly I could claim it on tax...

Either way, I still reckon they hit up WAY too much for most things...but as already stated - they have a monopoly, so good luck to them....

Besides, postage is too expensive to get most of that sent over anyway...

[soapbarstrat]

The stew-mac catalog was waiting for me after getting home from being above the clouds for 12 hours, and I actually looked through it before I ever sat down after walking in the door (well, makes me laugh thinking about it).

The aluminum block really caught my eye, but I really don't want one, the best playing necks have a tapered, or "compound" radius, and that constant 18" long radius is not going to help with that in any way. However, just seeing that they are making attempts to be that innovative, makes me really want to keep an eye out for what they might come out next with.

Also interesting to see the "new" "fret barber" since I've been using a less fancy version for years (gets the same result as theirs)

Heck, I might go buy me a piece of aluminum U channel and make a dead-on copy of theirs.

Often you can surpass their stuff through research and also building stuff yourself, if you have the other tools and experience needed.

I just bought $80.00 worth of tools related to fret cutting/nipping from an electronics parts supply house. Yes, the tools will have to be modded for guitar use, but they are higher quality than Stew-macs.

[soapbarstrat]

Oh yeah, don't forget your $116 gets you just one radius. if you want all of them, then yes, I'd say it's getting VERY expensive.

[Guitarfrenzy]

Yeah that's the best way to do it.. If you can build your own your gonna save in the long run, and like you said Soap, I don't know if I'd find a need in the Aluminum Radius Bar, but I'd like to try it just once to see... lol... The benefit of having a copy carver is that I can make a long Radius block like that by making an exact copy of my 8" one a couple of times then glue them together to make a long one and make a new duplicate from that. I might have to try that now that I think about it.. .. lol

[soapbarstrat]

I think you will eventually rule the universe with that copy-carver. if not, you can at least make your own copy of the universe with it, then rule that.

[Guitarfrenzy]

I think you will eventually rule the universe with that copy-carver. if not, you can at least make your own copy of the universe with it, then rule that.

Funny that you say that, but I really do have a plan to rule the world.. how did you find out about it? lol

Seriously though, I remember one day I was researching about making Radius Sanding Blocks and I read a number of ways people have done it. I already had a 8" long (12" Radius Sanding Block), but I needed to make or buy more to use as clamps to get the fretboard glued to the neck perfectly on preradiused board. Then it finally dawned on me one day.. DUH.. just copy the one I have.. lol I felt like Thomas Edison for one second.... but then I woke up.. lol

[soapbarstrat]

You probably have already read some post of mine where I said how I make radius blocks. The main thing about the "jig" I made to do it, is that it bends a sheet of plexi over 2 rods, and you adjust with wing nuts, until the bent plexi matches your radius gauge. Imagine if I had my own camera, all the photos I'd be linking to my posts ( as soon as I find out which camera is kick-a** bang for the buck.....)

Or actually, Stew-mac's 'trade secrets' volume 13, shows a drawing of my jig

Edited October 5, 2004 by soapbarstrat

[kench]

Yeah I remember your radius block. It was very simple and clever. But I wasn't sure it will give the exact radius you want.

I made a jig to make radius blocks with scrap woods. A pendulum with a router motor attached and a simple channel on bottom that you can move your scrap wood back and forth. You can adjust the lenght of the pendulum+router bit matching the radius you want. Then it will route the scrap surface to a perfect radius. All you have to make is a stiff, strong jig that wont bend during the routing.

[SawDust_Junkie]

You know all of this talk about radius blocks has got me thinking. I made a set of 4 radii (?) blocks suing the pendulum method that kench ws talking about. I followed the tutorial on the PG main site.

So, anyway, I now have a set of 10", 12", 14", and 16" radius blocks. The Stewart-Mac fret board I used has a compound radius starting at 10" at the nut and tapering to 16" at the heel.

I was curious if I could take, for example, three of my radius sanding blocks (10", 14", and 16") and mount them all to a single board as a handle. Then sanding a fret board blank using strokes about 6" long, to create a compound radius fret board myself.

I am also wondering if I could this method to sand my existing fretboard after installing the inlay dots. I was thinking that if I was careful, using this method, I could do this without changing the compound radius of my fret board.

[LGM Guitars]

But since I know that the production cost of that tool for StewMac is not more than $5, I cannot pay $116 for an aluminium radius block.

I was trying to say that it is StewMac who can make that tool for around $5 maybe for a little more but most probably for a less. And since I know that.. it is ME who is not going to pay that money.

I guarantee production cost is well over your assumed $5.

I worked in tool and die for 5 years as a journeyman machinist. We quite often needed custom extrusions. Do you have ANY idea what it costs to get a CUSTOM extrusion done?

It's a LOT of money, it's not like those blocks are standard aluminum extrusions that are then machined to that radius. Every one of those bars requires it's own extrusion die. I guarantee Stew Mac is not making those in house. They are being sourced out. Aluminum is not cheap despite what many think, I've seen standard aluminum extrusion at building centers that sells for over $20 per foot, and that is stuff that they are manufacturing millions of feet worth.

You can make that tool... but yes.. you should have or have access to few machinery that are expensive. The result will not look fancy and it might not have that comfortable handle side that StewMac's tool has. But a tool that does the same work can be done for a reasonable price compared to $116.95

Right, so why bitch about the cost of this tool, if you don't want it don't buy it. If you're only going to use it once then just use a cheaper one. But some of those features like the comfortable handle are highly desired in some shops where you're using it 6 hours a day. If you need something that often in a shop, the wood ones will not last more than a year, at $15.35 each, if you buy one a year, in 10 years you've spent more than that single aluminum one which will still be good.

In the first machine shop I worked in, another apprentice in there bought a $20 micrometer. For the first month it worked great, then his bearing fits started getting sloppy and sizes were off. Well, his $20 mic was worn out to far in the threads. My Tesa mic was $280, guess what, after 5 years of being used every single day, it still works dead on. If he had to replace that $20 mic every month over 5 years he'd spend $1200.

Well I'm not a luthier and not planning to start a professional career on anything about guitars. But I produce 0.75 mm thick glasses for watch and jewellery industry which needs 100 times more accuracy than a fret work. And all the machines in our factory are made by us.

Great, so you know about accuracy and the importance of good equipment, so why are you whining about the accurate tools being sold here, take a grinding and lapping machine for glass, even if you only put $50 of materials in it, are you saying that your design, development, and labor costs to make the machine are worth nothing? Some of the dies I made required tolerances of .000001" which were cut on a wire EDM machine. That EDM machine probably only has about $1000 worth of actual material in it, but man, we paid over $75,000 for that unit, we must be stupid. No, it's not the same comparrison, but it's comparrison showing the costs of R&D, production etc.

All the machines you use you make in your FACTORY. So there is company money behind it, there are machines available to you to make the new tooling you need. If you didn't have that, you'd have to source it out like Stew Mac is doing with these bars, do you think you'd get those tools for the cost of material again?

Except the 20 year-old big lathe that we use to make our machine parts. So I know what you can do with tools.

Oh? A machine you didn't make yourself, but yet a machine that is required to make things for your factory. hmmmmm, I'm guessing that the lathe probably wasn't bought for the price of the materials.

I don't know what your costs were or anything like that, but lets play a game.....

suppose you made 10 tools to do your glass lenses. The cost of each tool for material was $100.

You HAD to have that lathe to machine 2 pieces in each tool. The lathe cost lets say on the cheap side for a big lathe $25,000. Now, if that is ALL you ever use that lathe for those tools just cost you an additional $2,500 each because of the lathe required.

BUT, that lathe will be around for a very very long time. Chances are you COULD have built something else that worked without the lathe, OR you could have sourced the parts out and paid maybe $50 for each part. However, the lathe probably becomes a tool used every day in that shop for way more parts than the initial idea would have been.

Although StewMac makes some very good tools and jigs for a very reasonable price, let's take a look at this fancy tool:

Machine Head Drill Jig = $44.63

And another $44.63 if you need both two bushing sizes. Is it really hard to make a jig that keeps your drill aligned to the peghead? Or is it really hard to drill a peghead nicely by hand?

Would you sit down and build that tool and sell it to me for $44.63? I doubt it, not if you had to machine all of it, assemble it, package it, and promote it.

No, it's not hard to make a jig or drill a peghead by hand. But that is a versatile jig that can be used for multiple headstocks.

For my necks I have one jig for tuner holes, because they never change. But if you were drilling say 2 headstocks every day, and the spacing was never the same on any of them, wouldn't $45 be worth it for a jig that you can set up in 1 minute and drill all your holes with vs building either a template or having to hand drill everything every single time?

Quartersawn mahogany neck blank

StewMac price = $22.90

Lumberstore price for Honduran Mahogany (Swietenia Macrophylla) = around $15

Lumberstore price for African Mahogany= $10 (Khaya Ivorensis) and $6.50 (Sapele - Etandrophragma cylindricum)

Lumberstore price for 200 cm*20 cm*5 cm of Flame Maple is for $20!!!

Well, maybe where you live, but I will tell you straight out, buying instrument grade dried lumber from stewmac is far cheaper than buying it in Canada. I'm having a hard time believing some of those prices you are claiming for flame maple etc.

Well StewMac is generally an expensive shop. Some of their products are cheap but some are just robbery. But as long as I build my own guitars, I will keep buying some stuff from them. I admire creativity and none of the other shops or luthiers do such effort on development.

I dissagree, I think for specialty tools they are pretty reasonable, some things are on the high side, but when you think about the cost of doing it yourself if you had to pay for your own time, it's not that bad.

Your last sentence "I admire creativity and none of the other shops or luthiers do such effort on development" only states that you understand the time Stew Mac puts into making these specialty items and producing them, R&D costs are never cheap. If they are, the product in the end is cheap.

I've seen similar items to things that stew mac sells for less money, but in the long run, they don't last or work as well.

I don't particularily care for stew mac either way, I buy from them because it's available and relatively easy. But I know what it's like to have to build your own tools and what it's like to work with crappy tools, I think Stew Macs prices for the most part are justified.

Just my 2 cents. (although that's probably highway robbery LOL)