Ibaneznubcake! Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 (edited) iam kinda confused., so i can make a strat looking guitar as long as i dont put any kind of fender logos on it. sell it as long as i state thats its not by fender? right? Edited February 11, 2007 by Ibaneznubcake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 iam kinda confused., so i can make a strat looking guitar as long as i dont put any kind of fender logos on it. sell it as long as i state thats its not by fender? right? body? yes headstock? no The closest you can built a strat all by yourself, and sell it, is to build a strat body, and use a unique headstock. The only way to sell a strat WITH a strat headstock, is to use a licensed neck. Put your own logo (or fenders) on that licensed neck, and you'll be sued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibaneznubcake! Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 right..ermm ok how about if i just buy a normal neck from here http://www.axesrus.com/axenecks.htm the high nitro gloss and leave the neck blank. would it be ok then? or would i have to get the mighty mite (cuz thats reg by frender anyways) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anekretia Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 there is supossedly a 90% rule, another words, it has to be less than 90% similar, but then on the other hand, companies like Vester were sued over similarity, and closed out of business in the USA yet they look more like Ibanez and jackson than they do a fender. there are alot of guitars that resemble other guitars, well within that illegal margin, but what it really comes down to is the money behind it, like anything else here in the states. MCS guitars just won over HHI (BC rich) for the rights that Neal should have had in the beginning. Fender owns Jackson, who once was Jim Charvel, people in the USA have always been lawsuit happy. I own some Vesters, they are pretty hard to come by, someday I may be sued for ownership of such things, in the meantime, ill just keep trying to build original designs, and having fun with my gifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 I'm pretty sure you can't be sued for ownership of a 'lawsuit', copywrite infringing guitar, unless you're the one who made it, and is trying to offload/sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 Fender owns Jackson, who once was Jim Charvel ... Just for clarity, it's Wayne Charvel and Grover Jackson originally worked for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venominox Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Can you get in trouble for copying an idea for personal use? This means to make a bass with the same specs as lets say a fender jazz bass and using it to play and not sell. This is a grey area, it's a bit confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SprocketBoy Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Thats the same question i have as above. I want to make a custom Jem style guitar...order the body and neck from a company who replicates them...i can only assume the company has a deal with Ibanez anyways...understanding the whole copyright/pattent ordeal if im gonna make one for personal use and not to sell i don't see the problem.....hows your head lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibaneznubcake! Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 as long as its for personal use and your not going to make them and sell them thats ok. but if u gte tired of it make sure you sell it to someone you know. not on evilbay or anythink like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbanezFreak666 Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 im confused, how come all the thousands of strat, les paul and tele copys that small companys make are not illegal too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisArco27 Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 I've got the same feeling. If you see the Dean V and the 58 Flying V from Gibson/Epiphone, then there aren't that many differences except for the headstock and the pickguard that Dean doesn't have. Do they have some kind of agreement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibanezlover Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 If you buy a Fender-style neck from a neck company that isn't liscensed by Fender and use it on a guitar, who gets sued - you, them or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 no-one, the company with the LICENSE, has paid millions of dollars for the right to use it. And you pay them more per neck, because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbass Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 no-one, the company with the LICENSE, has paid millions of dollars for the right to use it. And you pay them more per neck, because of that. So, what if you take a genuine Fender neck, put it on a body that resembles, but is not an exact copy of, a Fender? i.e., the body is obviously not a Fender product when you look at it. What happens when you use old parts to make new creations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 So like, if I went back to the front of this topic and copied word for word the first question, would anybody notice? Or even care? Who would get sued, me or Fender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbass Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 So like, if I went back to the front of this topic and copied word for word the first question, would anybody notice? Or even care? Who would get sued, me or Fender? "Not sure exactly where to put this, but I thought I'd make a post regarding this after reading the thread with the Nuno N4 replica that was being sold on ebay. Now, please first understand, this is nothing against that auction or how it was listed, this is simply put, a post regarding design theft etc. I have just completed filing of patents and trademarks for the LGM Leviathan models. This is a brutally expensive process so when somebody goes through the hassles, time and expense of doing it, they expect their design protected. Under law, once a design is Patented, be it the Leviathan, a Strat, a Les Paul or otherwise, copying that design for more than personal use is completely illegal. The minute you post pictures you can be held liable for design theft if it can be concluded that you are using those pictures for personal gain, (ie: promotion) This is not a concern with posting project pictures really because no company is going to spend the money involved in a lawsuit on trying to nail somebody who is attempting to copy a guitar, the exception might be PRS, they seem to try to sue everyone. Well, maybe the Van Halen camp as well. If you try selling that guitar, you are immediately liable for design theft. You are stealing a patented design plain and simple and looking to profit from it. This includes but is not limited to, trading items for the guitar, even if you sell it for only a penny, it is considered profit reaped from another persons/companies design. In short, everyone was complaining about that particular auction being fraudulant due to a description that was misleading, making it sound like it was an original guitar, thats true, that's what I thought when I read it as well. However, being a hobby builder for yourself is fine, when you start selling the guitars, be aware of the legal issues you may face. Typically if you're just a small builder there will be no problems, as you become higher profile people start to notice. This is one of the reasons I designed the Leviathan. Everyone knows I started out by customizing Ibanez's to look like Custom Jem's. I don't want to do that forever and end up in trouble with Ibanez, I have a "handshake" agreement with them (which really doesn't protect me from anything, just an act of good faith) that says I can make custom Ibanez guitars provided I do NOT put "Ibanez" on a non Ibanez neck, never put "JEM" on a guitar that was not originally a JEM, and do not try to ever sell guitars that weren't original Ibanez parts as Ibanez guitars. That's all fine and good, but now more people are wanting 8 strings and I am not going to build an 8 string that looks like an Ibanez when Ibanez doesn't even have one, hence the Leviathan. Anyway, this is not in any way meant to discourage anyone. Just to make you aware, if you want to sell your guitars you build on ebay, and they are replica's, remember, the big companies are watching Ebay looking for fraud, that is where you'll start to get in trouble. Be careful, be smart, and have fun!" Yep, real funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 no-one, the company with the LICENSE, has paid millions of dollars for the right to use it. And you pay them more per neck, because of that. So, what if you take a genuine Fender neck, put it on a body that resembles, but is not an exact copy of, a Fender? i.e., the body is obviously not a Fender product when you look at it. What happens when you use old parts to make new creations? Thats perfectly fine, provided you dont SELL, or ATTEMPT TO SELL the instrument under YOUR OWN BRAND. Selling it as a 'parts mutt made from bla bla bla' is fine. Selling it as a guitar with your name AND the fender trademark/patented headstock design is a definate no-no. This is as close as i am legally allowed to build a guitar, which takes inspiration from a 'strat': Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 This may have been covered already, but if I am correct Perry could sell an exact replica as long as it is built and sold in Australia. Unless FMIC has patents and trademarks registered over there. Please correct me if I am wrong on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwood999 Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 is anyone here a copyright,patent lawyer? just wondering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 This may have been covered already, but if I am correct Perry could sell an exact replica as long as it is built and sold in Australia. Unless FMIC has patents and trademarks registered over there. Please correct me if I am wrong on this issue. Nope, they have trademarks here, in fact there is a clear decal on every fender headstock listing them all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonsg26 Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 this is kind of on the same basis what about all the times big brands have thrown there logo on stuff they didnt make? (not like outsourcing) ESP through a logo on the jfrog guitar George Lynch had and Charvel put a logo on a fender owned by Jake e lee (before fender bought them). Shouldnt that be just as bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted June 25, 2007 Report Share Posted June 25, 2007 I am not sure about the laws in that type of case, but that has more to do with endorsements. Criss Oliva had an ESP that he had to have the headstock painted and the Charvel logo put on when he signed with Charvel. I would guess it is some type of loop hole about endorsements. I know in the NHL players will sign an endorsement deal with a stick manufaturer and if they decide to use a different brand of stick, they are required to paint the enitre stick black. So why it is not like that with the guitars, I am not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand_Oconner Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 what if i build a guitar shaped like a companys logo such like the bass i am working on.... the entire body/headstalk are shaped as chevrolet logos is this in some way illegal? it doesnt say chevy nor am i trying to sell it as a chevy product... do i need to contact chevrolet and gain permission to build this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrHerron Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) How about this: I'm building a strat and I want to write my family name "Herron" on the headstock, in Fender's font. I'm not worried about Fender there, but there is actually a company called Herron Guitars. As far as I can tell, he doesn't write Herron on the headstock, just a little symbol. Now, I don't expect him to sue me over making a "Herron" guitar. I'm just wondering if it is legal for me to do it. I mean, it's my name! Edited October 3, 2007 by HerrHerron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbelluso Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 As an attorney and music lover, builder, and fan, I have to say that legally you are 100% correct on the issue of patent law, copyright infringement, etc. However, adding a dose of reality on the subject is necessary. If John Smith builds a beautiful guitar in his basement that looks similar to a Gibson or Fender, I highly doubt that the FBI is going to come knocking on your door. However, if you are mass producing knock-off guitars and claiming that they are authentic Gibson's or Fender's you will be in some serious hot water. Have fun building and remember that these laws exist to protect consumers and companies as well. Ron Belluso is a founder and contributing author of http://www.wiser-rocker.com, an indie music career site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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