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Prs 513 Wiring


Matt

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I did played one, but playing for me is not the same as for somebody else because I can't play to save my live, I strum it and did some power cords, that's about it, but the owner, a retired Navy officer did play some he showed the different type of sounds, it is very nice, but I think that you will get all the different tones advantage by using a tube amp, I somehow think that it won't be as good with multi effects like my GNX1. He showed me the control cavity and explained me the way it works, and it is not coil tapping, it is 5 single coils, an electronics board, the 2 switches and a LOT of wire. He said that the PRS tech told him that the way it worked instead of tapping into the coils to bring the output down or up, was that they used the wire to control the amount of output that the guitar will have, like half the wires will yield a heavier sound while using all the wires will yiels a lower output.

I think it is the same or kinda like the tone knob that they had, just controlling the resistance thru wires instead of the knob.

See that's what I wondered originally. if was more just passive altering of the circuits to get the sounds. Basically preset tone circuits.. More along the line of the vartone idea. Aside from creative switching of the 5 pickups, certain combinations are routed through different signal paths that alter the tone to model the sound they are after.

Harmony Central has a lot of reviews on teh 513.. Most think it sounds great but it's no more a strat or a paul than any other PRS.. just has some versatile combinations. You have to like it for what it is otherwise you'll be disappointed.

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I think it sounds a bit better than a regular Paul. at least the single coil setting, since it is an actual single coil being used, not a split humbucker, and the wires are there too to shape things up, who ever came up with the idea did his homework and then some.

If I haven't seen the insides I will be trying to figure out why the difference in sound, since a humbucker is but 2 singlecoils in the same pup.

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He showed me the control cavity and explained me the way it works, and it is not coil tapping, it is 5 single coils, an electronics board, the 2 switches and a LOT of wire. He said that the PRS tech told him that the way it worked instead of tapping into the coils to bring the output down or up, was that they used the wire to control the amount of output that the guitar will have, like half the wires will yield a heavier sound while using all the wires will yiels a lower output.

that's really neat. if they're using resistors to lower the output, that would mean they could use normal non-tapped pickups. a rig like that could be scratch-built, using resistors tied to ground to bleed off some of the output from high-output humbuckers. it would sound just like rolling the volume control back some, but you'd have to figure out the resistor values with trial and error.

the 5/13 would only be active electronics shaping the tone if there's a battery in the guitar. that doesn't sound like something the vintage crowd would want, so i'd be surprised if it is active and not just a passive network of resistors.

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Ok well this looks like it could be a very constructive post if i do say so myself- and i do :D .

well i was kinda interested in the tapped single coils idea. the resistor thing sounds like just a decrease in volume but there we go.

I reckon the coil tap idea on PU's such as the Evo's could be quite a neat idea as they are quite high output anyway.

Maiden do you reckon you would be able to post some pics of the control cavities of the 513 that your friend has? Im sure that could be alot of help to all of us.

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I won't be able to since he PCS (Permanent Change of Station) to FL, but I will e-mail him to see if he will send me some pics. I know that on the PRS tribute mag that came out a few months ago there is a pic and explanation, I bought it after seeing his, if I found it, I will scan it, sometime tonight.

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ok guys here it is, 5 pickup wiring. Ok as you can see it's kinda a mess... But follow it and see than when you hit one of the small switchs one way it cuts the inner coil and it's a "single", the other way it makes them both wired in series like a humbucker. you would need to buy 3 middle pickups (the inner coils need to be reverse wound reverse polarity just like the middle)) so you would have the hum canceling effect when in humbucker mode.

Now I'm not sure if wiring both "humbuckers" to the same switch will cause problems... Lovekraft what do you think?

I know it will work with them both on seprate switchs as I have tested it before.

here's the version with them both wired to the same switch (sorry guys this one is even more of a mess :D )

IMHO this mod sounds great as you can get a prety hot single and when in humbucker mode it makes for a very hot humbucker. So you get the best of both worlds...

Edited by Godin SD
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That's not really it at all.

Where's the coil tap? It's the coil tap that separates the 513 system from typical 'split the humbuckers'. Reading the last bit of this thread, I think some people still don't 'get' it. :D

You cannot have the 513 system unless you see 4 wires coming out of each single coil.

Greg

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Well, if you know it's not 513 wiring, why did you call the link, "513-like schematic"? As for its correctness, I honestly don't know. I can understand the theories of splitting and so forth, but until I sit down and go to do the wiring on my own guitar, I won't really be making heads nor tails of most diagrams. :D

Greg

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Right.. and i think the only way to do that is a stacked singlecoil.. Now the two coils may not be the same.. it might be a 5k stection and a 2k section.  I have no idea.. Someone can sneak into a prs dealer with their multimeter and let us know! :D

So you think the appearence of 5 individual coil cases is a cosmetic thingy? or do you mean each "single coil" is in fact akin to a stacked HB?

Link to big pic of 513

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Each single coil really is a single coil. They're not stacked HBs. They're coil-tapped single-coils, though there isn't an option for using ONLY the coil-split single coils.

Greg

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OK, it's agreed then - this is either the innovation of the new century, or it's more PRS corporate marketing hype, depending on your perspective. Like most of Paul's electronic "innovations" (remember the Sweet Switch, and the 5 way rotary McCarty switching package?), I'm sure the truth falls somewhere in between - it'll be somewhat useful for some people, and it'll sell boatloads of guitars to people who won't have a clue how to use it, but they can tell all their friends that their PRS "... goes to 13!...". Tapped humbuckers are nothing new, and if they actually manage to patent this, it'll be the saddest moment for patent history since Randall Smith started patenting the entire 1948 RCA tube manual.

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THAT I agree with.

In no way is it some sort of revolutionary innovation. I didn't realize they were seeking patent on it, either.

You CAN do a 513 system using available materials, and I'm sure there's a few people out there in the world that already have.

Greg

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You CAN do a 513 system using available materials, and I'm sure there's a few people out there in the world that already have.

Greg

I agree with this, but to one extent. You can copy the design like Godin just posted, and I think it will be very nice, I think that using a staggered single coil like the SSL-1 from SDuncan or a Di Marzio HS-2, -3 or YJM to work the magic.

But there is one concern that I have, since I switched to EMGs, I have noted increased sustain in my guitar, EMG site says it is because the low magnetic fied created at the pup, but I heard some people saying that it might be because of the pre-amp system in them, that act like a compressor. If it is the magnetic field, will this 5 single coils reduce the sustain on a guitar? Do PRS made a slightly less hot or weak magnets on this pups, and is compensating with the wiring or electronic board?

I wish my friend was still here, 'cause I would be running to his house with a multimeter right now, just to get a reading of the pups, since they are pluged in, it could be easier to do without taking the pots into consideration.

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I imagine having that many magnetic sources close to the strings WILL have an impact on the sustain. I hadn't thought of that. But, there have been 5-pickup systems out in the market many times before and it's not noted as a truly horrific thing, or people wouldn't do it.

I bet there IS a measureable difference in sustain, though.

Greg

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I know this might not be a solution for most but for me I just turn up the gain to real high levals and the volume to a decently high level... That gives me just about infinate sustain and a ton of harmonic feedback (which sounds REALLY cool for those of you too scared to turn it up and let it roar :D ). Again your playing style, amp, and the room your in would effect this alot.

But for me thers some prety simple anwesers to the problems. The hard part is getting it to work and sound good for a wide variety of people and music styles.

and for which pickups to choose I was thinking mabye like a SSL-5 custom. I think that would give you (for my styles anyways...) a nice single sound and a real strong humbucker sound.

I was thinking about my diagram and I think it would be kinda cool if you could make JUST the bridge into a humbucker or just the neck into a humbucker, or both B) I think this would provide very wide tonal options and make it nice and easy to switch between the posistions you want.

I will give it a try in the next guitar I build which will be a transparant green swamp ash with birdseye maple neck and striped ebony fingerboard. I'll post when I'm done with that beast and tell ya'll if my switching is usful or not...

I was also thinking you could just leave out the middle pickup as I dont really use it and dont see whats it's really good for :D Could someone please tell me what It's good for?

Heres what it would look like without the middle and with two phase switchs without middle pickup

Edited by Godin SD
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