Prs 513 Wiring

[Matt]

Wheres Ansil when i need him , he seems like an electronic genius. i expect he would have an idea how i might be able to achieve this. since im looking at winding my own coils, then putting a coil tap in shouldn't be a problem

[mledbetter]

Wheres Ansil when i need him , he seems like an electronic genius. i expect he would have an idea how i might be able to achieve this.  since im looking at winding my own coils, then putting a coil tap in shouldn't be a problem 

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Are you talking about putting a tap in a single coil?

If so then all you need to do (i'm reasonably sure) is pick the 2 output specs you want. Start winding and check your coil along the way (by sanding the wire and using a multimeter.. then put some lacquer on the wire and continue going unil you reach your target for the tap lead. .. If your tap target is 4k then at 4k you would stop, solder a wire to the bare spot and run it down the bobbin and tape it off somewhere. Then lacquer over the connection and keep winding. So if overall you have a 6.5k pup, if you used a switch to go from the main lead to the tap lead then you would cut your output down to 4k.

To me though, it would be easier just to use some little passive component.. i guess a resistor, to pull some power off the coil. Once you get outside the coil though i don't know much other than looking at a schematic and following it. I defer that advice to someone qualified.

to Paul: I had wondered early on if it was a stacked single.. but then someone elightened me that you can have a tapped single coil, as described above that isn't stacked at all. A stacked wouldn't work anyway because both coils would have to be in phase to chain and sound like a true singlecoil. The decision i think was that it's just 5 single coils and they have basically preset tone circuits to make them sound different ways depending on the 3 way switch.

[marksound]

The middle pickup is good for classic Strat sounds - if you don't use them, you probably don't need it, but positions 2 and 4 on a good Strat are fairly unique signature tones that you just don't get from a Tele or an SG.

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Most of SRV's Pride & Joy is on the middle pickup. Clapton uses it on Sweet Home Chicago on the Sessions for Robert J CD/DVD, too.

Position 1, 2, 4 & 5 are good, but don't discount the middle by itself. Nice.

[scott from _actual time_]

The decision i think was that it's just 5 single coils and they have basically preset tone circuits to make them sound different ways depending on the 3 way switch.

i looked over that magazine pic of the 5/13 circuit board and i don't think there's any tone-shaping circuitry in there. i don't see any resistors or caps [although there could be tiny ones]. the circuit board looks like it's just routing all the pickup wires to and from the 3-way mode switch. in which case i don't see exactly why they need it, or need it to be so big. the magazine article about 'amounts of wire' also makes it sound like they're getting the different output levels from the coil taps.

and the 5/13 certainly shouldn't be patentable, but folks love to patent 'systems' containing lots of pre-existing ideas [c.f. buzz feiten....].

To me though, it would be easier just to use some little passive component.. i guess a resistor, to pull some power off the coil. 

it would definately be easier to do this, especially since a custom coil-tapped humbucker would cost a lot of money for normal folks like us.

[mledbetter]

it would definately be easier to do this, especially since a custom coil-tapped humbucker would cost a lot of money for normal folks like us.

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Well he said he was winding his own is the only reason I mentioned it.. Would be fun to experiment with. Actually, it would be kind of neat to be able to switch between normal and overwound modes.. There are times when I like overwound pups but not for everyday stuff..

As to the 513.. I think they made up a complicated switcher to have a reason to patent. Scares off copycats and draws attention to themselves. But why the 3way. The 3 way could only make sense if it was single coil mode, humbucker mode adn hot humbucker mode.. OR it could be single, HB in phase and HB out of phase..

[GregP]

I didn't realize that tapping a coil was such an involved process. I could have sworn guys just kind of did it in their basements in the 60's. I certainly wouldn't be able to do it myself, mind.

Greg

[Matt]

well i reckon i could i could wind some PUs like this and also solder the b*st*rds in, but im not totally sure how all the three way and five way switches work - as in what terminals do what and when, so if some one could post a simple diag showing the functions of a 3 and 5 way switch then i might be able to make a mock up diagram for this purpose.

[lovekraft]

Well, here's the 3-way switch:

http://guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/product/SWT36

That'll do all the fancy switching, and the 5-way is wired like a standard Srat. If somebody hunts down a switching diagram (showing what connects to what in each position) for that switch, I'll be happy to draw up a diagram for this setup. Then all you'll have to do is find or make a pair of humbuckers with coil taps on both coils, and you'll be set.

[GregP]

I wonder if Jon would be able to custom-make a pair for a bit extra $? Not that I'm in the market, but we DO have access to somebody who winds and sells pickups.

Greg

[frank falbo]

Just a few points: I'd be 99% sure there's no resistors to lower output. That's even more complicated than working with taps. The resistor will limit high freqs first, like a volume knob, and then you'd be installing a hi-pass cap too. That's kind of sophmoric for PRS. You'd think he'd be after the "real" sound of the tap.

Tapping an existing coil isn't something that can be done effectively.

When winding a pickup with a coil tap, you don't have to solder the lead right to the tap section and run the wire down and out. That would bury the thicker lead wire, and cause a lump in your coil. You can bring a loop down and wrap it in a third eyelet on the bobbin. Then you could return it back to the wind. At that stage you could use a sliver of scotch tape to hold it steady until you began winding again. Have you ever seen hot rails pickups (4 conductor) with little eyelets at the four corners of the pickup? That's how I would do it. That way you wouldn't have the little triangular extension on the base, and could butt two together for a humbucker.

BTW you can also cut the wire, wrap it in the eyelet, and then start anew from the same eyelet. The wire doesn't have to remain continuous, just connected electrically. Do you know what that means? You can wind with 42 gauge up to your tap, and then complete the coil with 43 gauge. You can really get crazy with it if you wanted. You know what I'd like to do? Wind a tall coil up to the tap with 42, and then wrap several turns of 1/8" masking tape around the base of the coil, blocking that part off. Then the post-tap winds would be short and squatty, w/43 gauge, adding fatness and midrange. I wouldn't be surprised if PRS isn't at least varying the wire gauge between taps to gain more variance between the two.

As for the magnet pull, the 513 shouldn't be different from any H/S/H guitar. A lot of the EMG sustain is the preamp. I have one guitar with 5 pickups, 7 coils total. (3 singles, 1 rails, 1 HB) and it's the only guitar I notice an impact on. But some of the pickups I chose have strong magnets. Regular strat/LP magnet pull should be unnoticable. PRS has the luxury of knowing his guitars are solid with excellent sustain, to compensate. My 5-pupper is a bolt neck with a floating trem. (I had to lock that trem down with a backstop)