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ultraman

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Hey guys I know this topic has been discussed many times before but i still dont quite understand this whole subject.

Heres my plan:

I'm planning to buy myself a computer to start recording.

Im gonna get a basic computer, nothing special.

2.66 ghz

512 mb ram

80 gb hard drive

Would that kind of computer be enough to work with?

Secondly how should i hook up the instruments to the computer. I want to record using regular microphones and not by plugging my guitar directly into the computer. Ive seen the USB port interfaces. Are these any good?

Can you guys help me understand all of this please? What are your suggestions?

Thanks!

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1. That computer is about exactly the same spect as what I'm using right now, and it's plenty powerful for audio recording.

2. USB interfaces are fine, but get FireWire if there's an option.

3. If you plan to use microphones, make sure that you get either an interface with built-in mic pre-amps (that supply +48V phantom power (it'll be in the spec list, don't worry)) or make sure you factor a small mixer or mic pre-amp into your budget as well.

4. Since you don't have the software yet, when given the choice between two very similar interfaces, you could probably go with the one that has a better software bundle to get started with. I don't think it should be the deciding factor, but it's something to at least consider.

Greg

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im in the same boat as you dude except im not buying my new computer or anything until i get back from my trip to europe. I suggest you go to http://studio-central.com/phpbb/index.php and read on DAWs (digital audio workstation) and look at anything else there. Your computer looks okay but it depends what you want out of it.

What kind of processor are you getting, intel p4 socket 478, Intel P4 Socket 775, Intel Celeron, AMD Athlon 64, AMD Sempron, AMD Athlon XP, or what?

What kind of ram are you getting, SDRAM, DDR or DDR2?

Here's what I am looking at so far. I'm copying it from a word document which i copied from tigerdirect, however im not going to be using that site when i buy my stuff because of a recent past incident...

Abit AA8-DuraMAX Intel Socket 775 ATX Motherboard / PCI Express / Audio / Gigabit LAN / USB 2.0 / Firewire / Serial ATA / RAID

Intel Pentium 4 630 3.0Ghz / 2MB Cache / 800 FSB / Socket 775 / HyperThreading / Processor with Fan

Corsair Value Select Dual Channel 1024MB PC4200 DDR2 Memory (2 x 512MB)

Western Digital / Caviar SE / 200GB / 7200 / 8MB / SATA-150 / OEM / Hard Drive

Western Digital / Caviar SE / 80GB / 7200 / 8MB / SATA-150 / Hard Drive

52x32x52 CDRW Drive

52X CDROM Drive

3-Port Firewire PCI Card w/ Internal Header

Keyboard and mouse

use the small hard drive for XP home or professional, and recording programs, use the large hard drive for stuff you record.

You need a lot of ram to prevent lagging and latency in your songs, same goes with your hz im pretty sure. Seriously, in the end it's best to just dish out 1-2 grand for a computer that'll prolly last you the next 10+ years.

how many instruments will you be using? if you're using 2 mics and 4 instruments or something like that, get the firebox from presonus. if you're wanting to use more, get the firepod from presonus. They both use firewire I believe hence the names lol.

Also you'll want a good program to mix to, so cubase should do, or you can get one of those really cheap free ones if you're only using this for fun. Are you going to be mastering tracks? If so, get a pair of active monitors. I'm told behringer make good ones. The ones im aiming for are the Rokit 5s. You can see them on music123.com

It really all depends on what you want. I don't know what I want, but I want something to depend on and when soemthing is complete, the possibility of adding drum tracks and all.

If you get an interface without phantom power, you're going to need a mixer I believe, however i think you wont since cubase has the on board mixer.

I really suggest you check the forum I gave you. I did one post there (same username) and my computer was poo at the time, and who knows, it prolly still needs an adjustment or two even though i've corrected it. Take a look on that site and soak up as much information as possible, however if you're just wanting to record you, and you alone just with your guitar, it seems okay, but in the end, in a year just say, and you want to record a whole band and all, i dont think youd want to upgrade and all that. This is why im goin all out now and i'll have it for the next 10 years and by then the technology should be so far that it would be just cheaper to record in a professional recording studio :D hope this all helps.

-Jamie

Edited by sepultura999
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I have a freind whos getting a new CPU and he could give me his old one for free, its:

266 MHZ

8.42 GB HD

256 MB RAM

also if this isnt enough or even if it is, if someone could post the benchmark guide for minimums of those stats, that  would rock.

That is a S-L-O-W machine.. if you're wanting to do audio.. look elsewhere..

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I have a freind whos getting a new CPU and he could give me his old one for free, its:

266 MHZ

8.42 GB HD

256 MB RAM

also if this isnt enough or even if it is, if someone could post the benchmark guide for minimums of those stats, that  would rock.

That is a S-L-O-W machine.. if you're wanting to do audio.. look elsewhere..

Yeah, thats slow for anything these days, not just recording. It probaly wont even get you by :D

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It's really more worthwhile to use a computer than a standalone multi-tracker, even if you're not going to use it for internet or anything. I can think of a million reasons to use a computer, not the least of which is the ability to download and use free effects on your tracks. Not going to happen with the Tascam.

Here's a post I was in the middle of entering but forgot to press submit:

An Athlon T-bird 1 Ghz with 256MB RAM is plenty of machine to do audio on. Yes, it's long in the tooth, but it's way less powerful than the computer you mentioned, and it would still be able to handle multi-tracking audio. Given the specs you quoted at the beginning of the thread, I would worry less about your machine (which seems fine) and more about your software and audio interface. If you have a bit of extra cash, an extra 512 MB of RAM wouldn't hurt, but I wouldn't obsess any more than that. It's like wanting a Special Stock PRS... sure, it's nice to have, but your MIM strat WILL allow you to make music, still. :D

sepultura DOES have a point, though-- it all comes down to what you want out of the machine. The T-bird mentioned above will not handle some of today's virtual instruments, and will slow down considerably once you're up to 10 tracks of audio with a lot of effects on them. If you just want to record 1 or 2 inputs at a time, any machine out there will easily handle it. Most software comes with a 'freeze' function which will free up CPU usage for playback of as many tracks as you could imagine making, so that's not really a concern unless you want to avoid using a freeze function.

Even sequencers without 'freeze' will allow you to render (bounce) your audio tracks, which is just the same thing as freezing but with slightly more options to checkmark before proceeding. :D

My system uses an entry-level "pro" card called the Audiophile 2496. It has 2 analog and 2 digital ins and outs. I don't have any digital equipment, so for my purpose, it has 2 analog ins and 2 analog outs.

I plug my guitars and microphones into a small mixer (the Behringer UB802), which has 2 analog master ins, 2 analog master outs, and an output to my speakers. I can plug as many instruments into the mixer as it can handle, but they will eventually be 'mixed' to the 2 master outs, which then go to the 2496.

At the same time, any tracks that are being processed are also being sent BACK to the mixer, from which they are sent out to the speakers so that I can hear them.



instruments -------> mixer <-------> computer (2496)

                        |

                        |

                     speakers


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http://www.music123.com/Digidesign-MBOX-Mu...em-i94488.music

I have heard nothing but good things about this. Comes with Pro Tools and some other software too!

I used to use (and some times still do use) a P3 866mhz machine with 384 Ram and a 30gb hard drive. It was grand for up to about 20 tracks with no plugins running. Now I've a AMD 64 3000+, nforce 4 ultra motherboard, 1 gig dual channel ram, 2x200gb SATA hard drives in Raid 0. Plenty fast enough :D

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Mbox is apparently an excellent piece of kit. Pro Tools LE is a capable and industry-standard piece of software, though I don't like it. If you decide you don't like it, either, you are not 'locked' into using it, either.

Other similar products (some firewire/USB and I think some being PCI with breakout box) include:

Mackie Spike which includes my sequencer of choice, Tracktion. Also has on-board signal processing which takes some of the load off the CPU. Tracktion 2 is almost out, but I don't know what the details are for its inclusion with Spike. If it DOES come with Spike, it includes hundreds of dollars of industry-standard plug-ins as well, and a full suite of mastering plug-ins from Mackie/Acuma. Also, a Mackie-specific version of Ableton's excellent Live software.

M-Audio's FastTrack budget solution, or their awesome Firewire 410. M-Audio's stuff always comes bundled with software, too. Ableton Live Delta and Reason Adapted for starters, in most cases.

Edirol's range of products, only one of which being the UA-25.

Tascam's US-122 which includes the highly capable Cubase LE, as well as a reduced version of the industry's most powerful and ubiquitous sampler, Gigastudio 3. A word of warning, though-- at higher gain levels, the US-122 has the reputation of having some cross-talk. In other words, if you're recording and playing back at the same time, some of the playback signal bleeds into your input. I've used the 122 personally, and I haven't noticed this at all; however, it's very well documented that it's the case, so I'd believe it. To me, as a hobbyist, it's a worthwhile trade-off for the package you get.

[slightly edited:] At the end of the day, a PCI with mixer solution offers you the most flexibility for the lowest price, but the trade-off for flexibility is plain ol' physical space in your work area, not to mention portability. Many days, I'd rather have one of those standalone devices like the MBox.

Greg

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computer is the way to go...it's not easy to get familiar with...but the results are worth it.

i am just in the tip of the iceberg with mine,and it is quite exciting stuff.i would give you a sample of what i have done...but it is top secret.only a select few are privy to hearing it for now..but eventually i will have a complete cd recorded for everyone to hear.

have to look into copyrights though...don't want my stuff stolen

At the end of the day, a PCI with mixer solution offers you the most flexibility for the lowest price,

i believe that is what i have...delta m-audio 44m with a small behringer mixer and a shure mic.

i can record acoustic through the mic,record my marshall or my traynor through it,or i can use my top secret mojo box straight into the mixer

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With the right software, I think that the computer can be even easier than a "portable studio" environment. The only stumbling blocks are if computers are COMPLETELY foreign to you. If that's the case, I would stick to the USB/Firewire option since you're not likely comfortable installing a PCI card. Then the only other thing is installing the software. If you don't even like installing Microsoft Office, then you're in a bind. But if you've installed any sort of software before, this is no different.

Greg

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Just some ideas...

1) ANY new PC is going to be pretty fast. I'd go for a P4 or Athlon before a Celeron or Sempron, but even the cheaper CPUs should do OK these days. It really depends on how many effects & tracks you want to mix at once, and you may not know that until you've played with it a while.

2) Given the above, I wouldn't get a top of the line CPU. I'd get a middle of the road one or even just below. You save a few hundred $$ that you can put in the bank and use to upgrade in a few years. Because NO PC (even a $3000 one) will be worth a crap in 10 years. PLAN on upgrading every few years and you'll be happier for it.

3) 2 hard drives is great advice. A big one and a small one and both 7200RPM is my advice.

4) Memory amount has nothing to do with latency, but it helps to have more. I'd recommend at least 512 with one stick. If you get lots of hard drive swapping happening, add another so you have 1GB. I don't know what effect memory speed has on recording, but I'd bet any new system would be fast enough, whatever the arangement.

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I agree. Lots of memory really only becomes necessary when you're using virtual instruments that load samples into RAM. If most of your work will be audio-to-disc, then 512 will be plenty.

Greg

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of course ram is important when recording.every resource i have read agrees that ram is an important factor when lowering latency

here is an article

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558...209KTX1K0100361

that says that ram speed does in fact effect latency,mildly in these cases...of course,these tests are between similar ram..only difference is that the ram tested was marketed as "low latency"

but even a mild improvement can be a big help for recording...if you do,in fact,want to play along with prerecorded tracks and not have to mess with matching up the tracks later...remember that even a slight bit of latency is audible as a delay.

also...not enough ram can cause clicking or popping while recording if you have more tracks than it can handle.

seems like i remember reading that nuendo will handle as many tracks as your ram can handle....that seems to be a clear indicator that more ram = better performance.

faster processor can't hurt either

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Here is THE most referenced thread on the Studio Central forum:

How to Set Up a Mixer

It contains text explanations as well as detailed graphics. Serously - check it out.

As for computer specs, I started doing multi-track digital recording/mixing on a 486DX66. Now I have a 2.7gHz Athlon. The big difference is 1) I can run a LOT more tracks and effects on my latest computer, and 2) a lot of the new software simply won't run smooth on older systems.

If you use an older computer, resign yourself to the fact that you won't be able to use very many software effects on your tracks, and you won't be able to run all of the latest software. But do as much as you can do until you can afford to do more.

D~s

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Sounds good guys.

But the only problem is that i think this will be costing me ALOT more than i expected because i have to get a new computer, a couple mics, an interface or mixer and some software.

I think it would be alot easier to go with the Tascam. Plus another thing i like about the Tascam is that it feels more like a real studio. Anyone ever tried the Tascam 8 track recorder? I went to see it in the store yesterday and it seems like its got pretty much everything i want. 2 mics with phantom power, vocal effects (guitar effects too which i wont be using), 2 guitar line ins, onboard easy knob EQ (no menus!!!! :D ).

Anyone think this is a good idea?

Ultraman

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Real studios use computers. :D

On the Tascam, you will never have even close to the power and flexibility of a computer. You won't be able to install AutoTune (or BetabugsAudio's free version) if you want to use it for vocal tune-ups. You won't be able to zoom in on a waveform and do minute changes. You won't have a selection of thousands of free and cheap effects, plus thousands of more commercial ones if you decide to buy some. I've never known anyone to go from computer to portastudio, but there are people who go from portastudio to computer (I'm one of them, but it was a very different portastudio back then!) and then you have to transfer all your music over.

I can think of a million reasons to go computer, but only one reason to go Tascam: price. How much is the Tascam unit going to run you?

When people are talking about the computer specs, and if it's "powerful enough", they are thinking in terms of more than 8 tracks. If you're happy with 8 tracks of audio, an ancient used computer for $200 will work. :DB)

I'd still recommend getting something newer than that, but even the cheapest new Dell will be able to handle more tracks of audio than the Tascam. :D

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Just had a peek at that recorder, and judging ONLY by specs (ie. not practical usage) I can't see anything to recommend it. For the version with the effects, you're looking at $450 street price. That gets you 16-bit / 44.1 kHz audio quality only, 8 tracks only (I'm sure you can bounce, mind you, but bounce is destructive and can't be undone), no integrated drum machine (so now you have to find a way to get drum tracks onto it), a difficult interface for editing and mixing (a small LED display?)

Ironically, the only thing I see going for it is the fact that it has SPDIF (digital) output, so it could be used as a mixer still, once you make the move to a computer. :D

Let's say you went with computer and soundcard. It could easily become more expensive, for sure. But you'd be sorted out for anywhere from $400 (the same price as the Tascam, but with no real upgradeability or future life, take it as it is [just like the Tascam]) to the sky's the limit. For what's considered a competent modern setup with power, upgradeability, and more power than some 'real' studios have (obviously not the top dogs, but local studios can't afford to continually upgrade their equipment and get by for years with 'old' technology) you can spend about a grand and be quite happy.

With the computer, you'll also have the option to program your drums and other instruments (orchestral, even, if you dig it!) OR use loops if that's your bag (drum track with variety and humanity is possible in 10 minutes using something like the inexpensive discs found at Beta Monkey.

I don't mean to brow-beat you. I just think if you're really willing to limit yourself to the tiny amount of power available on the Tascam, then you could just as easily limit yourself to an outdated (but still capable) computer setup. And then if you're serious about doing it, you can always upgrade the computer and bring the soundcard and mixer along with you to the next machine.

Greg

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Ok so lets say i buy myself the cheapest dell package there is.

http://configure.dell.com/dellstore/config...00_FEAT_CH22P12

(is that soundcard good enough? :D )

Next on my list would be an interface or a mixer.

Is it possible to buy one of those Behringer eurorack mixers and plug it directly into my soundcard?

Or should i buy one of those usb intefaces?

Then id have to get a multitrack program. Thats probably another 100$ right?

Im thinking cakewalk homestudio. What do you think?

Then finally id have to get a mic. ( Im thinking Behringer B-1 condenser )

So to sum it all up : (pardon the pun! :D )

329 $ (computer)

+

100$ (software)

+

125 $ (mic)

+

150$ (mixer or interface)

=

704 $ (total)

Edited by ultraman
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