GregP Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 That's simply not true. I don't know anybody on this site who ONLY focuses on finish over playability issues. Some people love a nice finish, and they might talk about it because that's all they can really 'show off', but that doesn't mean that when they're away from the forum, they're not working on playability issues. You're absolutely right that all we can judge by is the visual aspect, but that doesn't mean it's what our entrants focus on. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 I pretty much agree with Matt, which is why I say it's just for fun and giggles, so just enjoy it for what it is (a fun contest) and stop trying to take it so seriously and get all worked up about classes and who can enter and who can't and all like that. As an aside but adding to the point, I rarely EVER see pics of control cavity neatness or pics showing intonation or action or well, like Matt said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Exactly Drak,, couldn't have said it better myself. It's just for fun, period. Nothing wrong with that though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 I say that we get the MODS involved on this one and have them set a new rule for the GOTM, were there are no replys allowed until the winner is announced. I don't know if the invision will allow to have the votes remain hidden, but atleast if there are no replys, the person voting will be doing so with just the pictures and the builders comments on the guitar. As far as I know this will be a better answer. i don't like that idea at all.we don't need to change anything.maybe one of the replies will point out a flaw that less sharp eyes would have missed.how frustrating would it be to see everyone voting for a guitar with bubbles in the finish or a crooked insert on the t.o.m.? or what if i could see that the intonation could not possibly be right(because yes,you can see whether or not it is in the ballpark)but some of you don't know what that looks like? anyway..the replies are half the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n8rofwyo Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 I signed up on this forum as an amatuer, on a amatuer forum. So I deserve to be called an idiot for assuming that the fret markers were filled in slots, not for a grainy picture. I think I would have reacted the same way if someone who didn't know better had said that all my hard work came from a factory. Past that maybe the best solution is to vote and leave it at that, leave the comments in the in progress threads. If I had followed Raga's in progress thread I wouldn't have said anything so senseless. So shame on me for not doing my homework. The only reason I gave any opinion at all in the vote was to show my appreciation of all the good work done on these instruments. Nate Robinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragasguitars Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 That's good to hear you say that, thats all I was trying to say, but I had to say it twice so you would understand it was not a factory guitar. Didn't mean to cause so much crap but things happen as they will, thats the beauty of a forum, can't be the way you want it all the time. On a side note, as for not filling the grain, many companies don't always fill the grain, take warwick basses for example, they don't always fill the grain, they leave it as natural as possible. So saying a finish is not professional cause the grain is not filled doesn't mean squat to me, it can be done, just not popular, gloss is the in thing. I just feel that some things are said in an uneducated way, with assumptions being made without finding out the proper information, that can be taken as an insult very easily. As for being a sore loser, any extra votes I would get won't make a difference, I don't care about that, it's the assumptions that were being made about my work that bothered me. I am in no way a professional yet, I do good work, and I also do work for other people, that doesn't make me a professional. But there are ways to say things, like saying that a guitar is crap cause there is no grain filler is a bad way to make friends, asking why someone didn't use a grain filler is a better way to make a comment and get information. Thanks for all the comments either way, whether destructive or constructive criticism. And if anyone can tell my site is horrible, and I can only put pictures that are so big on the site cause its free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javacody Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 All 4 guitars look very well built. However, I'm not a big fan of the metal look nor do I care for headless guitars. I'm not voting on the best guitar, I'm voting on the guitar I like the best. I have no idea which is the best guitar. I only know that after you build your first guitar, only then do you start to get an idea of how hard it is to build a quality instrument. Guys like Perry make it look so easy. Congratulations to everyone for having the courage to enter and for having the tenacity to follow through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 I am in no way a professional yet, I do good work, and I also do work for other people, that doesn't make me a professional. ← Your website states differently. Take your pick, you either are, or you arent. The SECOND you charge ANY amount (making money or not) you have become a pro. That means your up against the other pros, regardless. Id suggest you change your website (and username, as it implies a pro company), to reflect this. As for picking out flaws, i did think it was appropriate, although some guitars currently entered have "issues" that i can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 (he probably didn't get feed on time and was a bit grumpy). ***, am I a freakin' horse or something??? Or maybe you were implying I am a jackass? (which is occasionally true you know) ← Take your pick! or maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragasguitars Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 My website implies that I offer my services to other people, I only work on one guitar at a time since that is all I have time to do and it takes me a while since I have another job. I have built guitars for cost of materials, not making money does not make you a pro even if someone pays for materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 RasaGuitars - Perry (roads56) isn't trying to be rude or anything, it's just that we've seen what can happen when somebody comes on here as *******CustomGuitars when they're not actually a professional builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 QUOTE(Drak @ May 30 2005, 11:28 AM) QUOTE (he probably didn't get feed on time and was a bit grumpy). ***, am I a freakin' horse or something??? Or maybe you were implying I am a jackass? (which is occasionally true you know) * Take your pick! lol.gif laughhard.gif or maybe peace.gif I knew I left the barn door (yuk yuk) ...wide open on that one, I was wondering if anyone was going to stroll in and take advantage. It was a trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 RasaGuitars - Perry (roads56) isn't trying to be rude or anything, it's just that we've seen what can happen when somebody comes on here as *******CustomGuitars when they're not actually a professional builder. Yes, we like to keep things straight around here, say what you are, and be what you are, and don't try to imply you are something you are not, we WILL call you to the mat if we sniff something foul around here. We like honesty, we like attitude, we don't like a lot of grey area and suspicious behavior. Ragas, was not aiming that at you directly, just clearing the air and setting the record straight for all our dear luthiers-in-training. Love, Ace Litchfield, Pet Detective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 RasaGuitars - Perry (roads56) isn't trying to be rude or anything, it's just that we've seen what can happen when somebody comes on here as *******CustomGuitars when they're not actually a professional builder. ← usually what happens is some poor sucker ends up with an expensive lesson and a poor guitar or part of a guitar...in one case i don't think the poor fool even got the neck he ordered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragasguitars Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 (edited) I totally understand, this "company" is not about making money right now, so I really don't consider myself a true professional, as it may seem implied, I am up front to anyone willing to get work from me that I am not a full time company, I do this to help get my name out until I get the money on my own to start the company, everything is legit. I even take small payments and post pictures for any "client" as work gets done so they know I am not trying to steal their money and so they can actually see their money get turned into materials. This is just a way to get people to recognize the name as it will be in the future and it even says on my site this is a business that is trying to get its start. Besides its easier to make guitars when other people have money for materials. I can only do them as I get money for myself. Just a way to help build up a body of work and a clientel which it takes to get started even though there is no money made, its a good investment for the future. Also I use the strings and tunings each person uses and do a proper set up job on the guitar before it goes out. Edited May 31, 2005 by Ragasguitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Just because you dont earn a living, doesnt mean you arent a pro. The second you charge a client, regardless how much, HE is paying for a service, and that makes you a pro. QUOTES FROM YOUR SITE: "Please be patient, its not easy starting a business without money." "I am officially endorsing all UNIQUE LEADER artists." "Contact me for pricing either by email, bla bla....." "....no idea is too crazy for me. Charges are based on an individual job." "This is the first prototype of What will become my first standard model.........The standard model will have frets." You have a web presence, that incinuates you are pro. You have "announced" you are endorsing players. You have a username that implies a company name. Yet you come in here and tell us your an amatuer. Make up your mind. You can either live the fantasy on your angelfire website, or own up to reality. Whats it going to be?? An amatuer that is charging before he should, or a pro that isnt up to scratch?? Sorry if these words are hard dude, but im calling it as i see it. I see remants of Litchfield in you, and that aint good buddy. Although, you do have definate potential, which is something Litch NEVER had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 You people crack me up when you dance around the fire. Just walk straight thru the hot coals! JEFF LITCHFIELD SUCKS MEJORE BUTTEWINDE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 RasaGuitars - Perry (roads56) isn't trying to be rude or anything, it's just that we've seen what can happen when somebody comes on here as *******CustomGuitars when they're not actually a professional builder. ← It was actually **********CustomGutars. Even he couldnt spell it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 I've gotta go with Perry on the "Ragas As Pro" issue. The site "implies" that you're a pro builder. Whether you make money or not is not the issue. You charge money. You should be ranked as a pro. Now there are good pros and bad pros. Which one you are is up to your customers I suppose. I see a screen name like RagasGuitars and I think "Hey, this is must be a pro builder" not "Hey, what a coincidence! The guy likes guitars and his last name is Guitars! Wow!" And as for the grain filling... Yes, I agree, I've seen expensive and well built guitars without it. However, I've never seen a "metal" or "evil" guitar in anything but a filled, glossy, usually black finish. That's just me since I don't like those designs anyway. Be that as it may, for those of us who are really amateurs, something like grain filling is a thing we take time to learn and do well. So when I see a guitar without it, I do tend to think, "that finish didn't take as much work as the beautiful glass like finish on so-and-so's guitar". And when someone has that opinion, you can't complain about it. Ok, so let's see who have I guaranteed a no-vote from when I enter my guitar for the GOTM, um there's Drak, Ragas, and at least 5 of their friends on the forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 It was actually **********CustomGutars. Even he couldnt spell it right ← I remember. I was here through all that stuff, as well as the BS on the other forums. My old posting ID was Lex Luthier, but I don't like that name anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 You people crack me up when you dance around the fire. Just walk straight thru the hot coals! JEFF LITCHFIELD SUCKS MEJORE BUTTEWINDE! ← JUST to keep everyone in the loop....... JEFF LITCHFIELD aka Litchfield Custom Gutters, aka ACE Litchfield, is currently making a guitar for the band... THE DONNAS. He is currently trying to sell his "firewood with food stains" to unsuspecting children. Yes, children... on the Donnas forum. As usual, ive pointed out the faults with his workmanship and design flaws which will most definately render the guitar.... let me say that again.... which will render the "firewood with food stain" an absolutely useless, unplayable, piece of crap.... with food colouring. As usual..... the members of the donnas forum, think i am being a little extreme, and they are taking "Ace's" side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Ok, so let's see who have I guaranteed a no-vote from when I enter my guitar for the GOTM, um there's Drak, Ragas, and at least 5 of their friends on the forum... Not true at all. I can argue with you and disagree with you all night long but I don't take any of it personally and if I like your guitar it gets my vote. I vote for guitars, not personalities. And for Ragas, well, that's a tough call. When you're trying to break in, you don't want to come out and tell the world you're just starting out, that's not the best tactic to drum up business, but then again, you do have to be very careful not to mislead people either, and words like 'prototype' are charged with a professional candor. Hell, I can drum up a 'prototype' in 5 minutes flat. But it gives an 'air' of professionalism and that's exactly what we're dissecting here, are you truly misleading people beyond your means and skills by using terminology like that? I think you are to tell you the truth, and your guitars don't really seem to be 'that' hot. But we all have to start somewhere, I understand that angle too. Now, if you were here under no professional auspices, I would congratulate you on some nice guitars. But when you are here under the assumption of being a pro with a website and all that, then you are the perfect lamb for our bonfire. Just the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 You people crack me up when you dance around the fire. Just walk straight thru the hot coals! JEFF LITCHFIELD SUCKS MEJORE BUTTEWINDE! ← JUST to keep everyone in the loop....... JEFF LITCHFIELD aka Litchfield Custom Gutters, aka ACE Litchfield, is currently making a guitar for the band... THE DONNAS. He is currently trying to sell his "firewood with food stains" to unsuspecting children. Yes, children... on the Donnas forum. As usual, ive pointed out the faults with his workmanship and design flaws which will most definately render the guitar.... let me say that again.... which will render the "firewood with food stain" an absolutely useless, unplayable, piece of crap.... with food colouring. As usual..... the members of the donnas forum, think i am being a little extreme, and they are taking "Ace's" side. ← That thread was just closed. But I think they got the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Ok, so let's see who have I guaranteed a no-vote from when I enter my guitar for the GOTM, um there's Drak, Ragas, and at least 5 of their friends on the forum... ← All you have to do is wait until i enter then, you'll have a much better chance after im handicapped for being a pro, handicapped for being good looking, handicapped for being a hit with the ladies, bla bla bla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Yeah, I was thinnin' about that very fact earlier today, and I don't handicap anyone AS LONG AS THEY ARE A SINGLE ENTITY. If someone entered a guitar from a COMPANY that had several employees, different story. Then the handicapping would begin in a big way. But to handicap 'our' pros here at PG, why, they're all solitary individuals who have gotten very good at their craft, and to handicap them for spending years working their asses off is complete BS and that's why I never do it. Hell, I never even THOUGHT of any handicap system, I just vote for the guitar I like. I read that other people do it, and I thought it was just sour grapes or something. But that's the beauty of our GOTM now, isn't it, we all get to vote just how we want to. Live and let live I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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