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"tortoise Shell" Dye Finish


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"Wierd, I never got the green tint even though I have used yellow over black. It is probably because I have never used just yellow and black. There was always a bit of brown in the mix.

EDIT: This method will not generally produce the clean PRS style tops. I wanted to do something a bit different so be warned: you won't get standard results."

Hmmm... what do you mean by "clean" tops? Yours don't look muddy to me.

I think I might try the sand back with black or tobacco brown with some black mixed in. Then the brown, a little red, and finally amber or yellow. And possibly tinting the first layers of clear with a little amber. Mainly I want a lot of contrast to pop out the flame, like the PRS in the pic.

Found a shop close to my workplace that sells all kinds of exotic hardwoods, including figured maple, so I'll have some pieces to experiment with. :D

David, do I understand correctly that you dyed the mahogany back with the wipe-on method? I wasn't sure what method would work - seems like most guys seal it and spray the dye over that. If I can wipe on the tobacco brown and get it nice and even I'd prefer that method. Better get some mahogany scraps too. :D

Thanks again for all the help.

Mike

Edited by mikhailgtrski
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Mike, yes I wipe all the dye directly onto the wood, no sealer coats. I haven't ventured into colored lacquer or spraying dyes over sealer. So far I find that the dyes add a depth that color coats do not. Color coats sit over the top of the figure and can block it out. Dyes always enhance because they get into the grain. And if I can get away with it I don't use sealer at all. I prefer to spray (nitrocellulose) lacquer directly onto the wood (dyed or not). It looks deeper to me that way.

What I meant by clean in the evenness of color that comes from appying the same amounts of dye everywhere across the top. They look even and 'clean' to me. My stuff has colors that are not always intentional but are the result of colors blending throughout the dye application process. Maybe clean wasn't the right term. I don't know that the right term would be but you won't achieve the same results with the wipe-on-a-lot-of-dye-and-blend-it-all-together-until-it-looks-right method. It is all about process I guess. My process is a series of adjustments not a strict method. I guess that's the muddy part :D

~David

Edited by Myka Guitars
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Spent $53 today on "scraps" for testing my dye techniques :D

The guy at the hardwood shop told me I was the 14th guitar builder he had coming in to look for figured western maple... I got the last piece he had. Wow.

Also got some bolivian rosewood to practice inlay routing before I carve up my nice brazilian board. Now what to do with all the nice leftover wood and abalone? I think some relatives are getting inlaid jewelry boxes this Christmas :D

It's not a hobby, it's a disease B)

Mike

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$53 on scrap???? Holy moly, the local place here got a 10'X10" 4/4 flamed maple blank for $50. some places are really nice figured, some are not. I wanted to buy it, but ran out of money real quick, (wife got a few presents), And this piece will yiels quite a lort of scraps after cuting and slicing it for bookmatched tops.

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$53 on scrap???? Holy moly, the local place here got a 10'X10" 4/4 flamed maple blank for $50.  some places are really nice figured, some are not.  I wanted to buy it, but ran out of money real quick, (wife got a few presents), And this piece will yiels quite a lort of scraps after cuting and slicing it for bookmatched tops.

It was $20 for the western maple, about 12" x 36" with about 1/2 of it quilted. Not sure if it's big enough to bookmatch. $25 for the rosewood...

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to bookmatch all you need it 7x19, (normaly) I just got a piece that was 21" wide bookmatched because I needed 16". The most important part is how thich it is in order to get it bookmatched.

You are in WA USA, you can get nice scraps (to test finishes) over there to test from the ones that are left after ripping the big planks, just ask the guy is they have any small scrap pieces next time you go buy. That way he sill see that you are still buying and will give you the scraps.

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to bookmatch all you need it 7x19, (normaly) I just got a piece that was 21" wide bookmatched because I needed 16".  The most important part is how thich it is in order to get it bookmatched. 

You are in WA USA, you can get nice scraps (to test finishes) over there to test from the ones that are left after ripping the big planks, just ask the guy is they have any small scrap pieces next time you go buy.  That way he sill see that you are still buying and will give you the scraps.

It's from the outer part of the tree and still has the bark on the edge. I can just get a 7" x 19" x 1 1/2" slab out of it, but only the top end has the quilt, and the bottom end has a small knot or two. Probably why it had been passed over. :D

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  • 5 months later...
Technically, i believe that finish is Tiger eye, not tortoise shell.

To get tiger eye, you do dark brown, sand out, Brown again in a lighter pass,

Then a top coat of yellow.

For the real tortoise shell,do the brown, sand out. Then do a diluted brown pass.Then do a pass of red, then scrub it out with alcohol. top it off with yellow.

This gives you the 3 shades in real tortoise shell.

Be carefull when scrubbing out with the alcohol. If you overdo it you can bleed through into the binding giving the dreaded "celery stalk effect".

Good Luck  :D

Ah, yes... PRS has updated their site now. Here's the real tortoise shell:

PRS tortoise shell McCarty

PRS tortoise shell

I like it a lot :D Can't believe it's December already.

Mike

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Did you get anything finished with the stain? I'd really like to see how it went.

I can't believe it's december either! Man, this year flew!!

No, not yet... :D

I spent a lot of hours on the fingerboard inlay (it's done now - is there such a thing as inlay fatigue :D) then went on vacation for 2 1/2 weeks in July, and didn't get back to guitar building until late October.

I did some dye tests last week, and hope to have it nailed down this weekend. I'll try to get some pics posted very soon.

Thanks, it's cool to have people interested in your stuff. B)

Mike

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Getting awfully close...

Tobacco Brown (Colortone - 1 part dye to 4.5 parts H20)

Red Mahogany (mixed at 1:4.5)

sand back

Tobacco Brown (mixed at 1:16)

Cherry Red (mixed at 1:16)

Scrub out with damp rag

Lemon Yellow (mixed at 1:16)

Another pass of yellow

The red mahogany really adds a lot of contrast compared with using brown alone.

I'm still playing with the red/yellow balance.

Pics as soon as my camera comes home. :D

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Getting awfully close...

Tobacco Brown (Colortone - 1 part dye to 4.5 parts H20)

Red Mahogany (mixed at 1:4.5)

sand back

Tobacco Brown (mixed at 1:16)

Cherry Red (mixed at 1:16)

Scrub out with damp rag

Lemon Yellow (mixed at 1:16)

Another pass of yellow

The red mahogany really adds a lot of contrast compared with using brown alone.

I'm still playing with the red/yellow balance.

Pics as soon as my camera comes home. smile.gif

Hey, I tried this today on a quilt top strat, and it looks great. Not quite there yet, but pretty close. I'll know better after I hit it with some clear. Plus, I'm color-blind. But still, looks pretty close.

And, thanks to you guys. You guys rock!

Edited by Grindell
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"Plus, I'm color-blind."

:D As am I (a little trouble with greens & browns) so I always get a second opinion on my colors.

I tried sanding back a little after the light brown pass - it got a little too dark otherwise. And I switched to alcohol for the scrub out - works better as it dries quicker and doesn't seem to disturb the underlying dyes as much. I sealed my samples with a washcoat of shellac, then hit them with a couple of coats of nitro lacquer. Talk about popping the figure!

But I'm not quite there with the color. A little less red, and I want a little more contrast - the lights need to be a bit lighter. I'm going to try sanding back just a little before the last pass of yellow.

Glad the info was helpful to you, Grindell. :D

Mike

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There's a little more tobacco and red in it than showed up on the pictures. I actually wish I had used a darker tobacco brown, maybe 1:10 on the second pass, then a 1:12 cherry red.

I also went really hard with the wet cloth to wipe them together before using yellow.

Funny, though. I actually really like this look. It wasn't exactly what I was going for, but I dig it.

I'll try again on the next guitar, proably in about a month.

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Very cool.  Much darker than mine turned out.

I'll try again on another guitar in a month or so.

Mike- Looking nice, man! rich and smokey :D

Grindell- yours actually looks pretty much like the artist series amber. Same idea, just a lighter base coat. Looks good.

Edited by Rodney
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  • 1 month later...

Well, here's how it turned out... this is after the yellow pass, before the shellac washcoat:

yellowpass1.JPG

I basically followed Rodney's recipe:

- Tobacco Brown (1 part Colortone stain to 4.5 parts H20)

- Another pass of the dark brown

- Sand back

- Diluted Tobacco Brown @ 1:48

- Cherry Red @ 1:21

- Scrub out with alcohol

- Lemon Yellow @ 1:21

It should really pop when I get the clearcoat on. :D

If you're interested, the progress pics are here: Mikhail's Project

Mike

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