mikhailgtrski Posted June 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 (edited) "Wierd, I never got the green tint even though I have used yellow over black. It is probably because I have never used just yellow and black. There was always a bit of brown in the mix. EDIT: This method will not generally produce the clean PRS style tops. I wanted to do something a bit different so be warned: you won't get standard results." Hmmm... what do you mean by "clean" tops? Yours don't look muddy to me. I think I might try the sand back with black or tobacco brown with some black mixed in. Then the brown, a little red, and finally amber or yellow. And possibly tinting the first layers of clear with a little amber. Mainly I want a lot of contrast to pop out the flame, like the PRS in the pic. Found a shop close to my workplace that sells all kinds of exotic hardwoods, including figured maple, so I'll have some pieces to experiment with. David, do I understand correctly that you dyed the mahogany back with the wipe-on method? I wasn't sure what method would work - seems like most guys seal it and spray the dye over that. If I can wipe on the tobacco brown and get it nice and even I'd prefer that method. Better get some mahogany scraps too. Thanks again for all the help. Mike Edited June 7, 2005 by mikhailgtrski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 (edited) Mike, yes I wipe all the dye directly onto the wood, no sealer coats. I haven't ventured into colored lacquer or spraying dyes over sealer. So far I find that the dyes add a depth that color coats do not. Color coats sit over the top of the figure and can block it out. Dyes always enhance because they get into the grain. And if I can get away with it I don't use sealer at all. I prefer to spray (nitrocellulose) lacquer directly onto the wood (dyed or not). It looks deeper to me that way. What I meant by clean in the evenness of color that comes from appying the same amounts of dye everywhere across the top. They look even and 'clean' to me. My stuff has colors that are not always intentional but are the result of colors blending throughout the dye application process. Maybe clean wasn't the right term. I don't know that the right term would be but you won't achieve the same results with the wipe-on-a-lot-of-dye-and-blend-it-all-together-until-it-looks-right method. It is all about process I guess. My process is a series of adjustments not a strict method. I guess that's the muddy part ~David Edited June 7, 2005 by Myka Guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted June 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Spent $53 today on "scraps" for testing my dye techniques The guy at the hardwood shop told me I was the 14th guitar builder he had coming in to look for figured western maple... I got the last piece he had. Wow. Also got some bolivian rosewood to practice inlay routing before I carve up my nice brazilian board. Now what to do with all the nice leftover wood and abalone? I think some relatives are getting inlaid jewelry boxes this Christmas It's not a hobby, it's a disease Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 $53 on scrap???? Holy moly, the local place here got a 10'X10" 4/4 flamed maple blank for $50. some places are really nice figured, some are not. I wanted to buy it, but ran out of money real quick, (wife got a few presents), And this piece will yiels quite a lort of scraps after cuting and slicing it for bookmatched tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay5 Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Keep us updated on how your experiments go regarding this finish, Im really interested in seeing how it turns out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 $53 on scrap???? Holy moly, the local place here got a 10'X10" 4/4 flamed maple blank for $50. some places are really nice figured, some are not. I wanted to buy it, but ran out of money real quick, (wife got a few presents), And this piece will yiels quite a lort of scraps after cuting and slicing it for bookmatched tops. ← It was $20 for the western maple, about 12" x 36" with about 1/2 of it quilted. Not sure if it's big enough to bookmatch. $25 for the rosewood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 to bookmatch all you need it 7x19, (normaly) I just got a piece that was 21" wide bookmatched because I needed 16". The most important part is how thich it is in order to get it bookmatched. You are in WA USA, you can get nice scraps (to test finishes) over there to test from the ones that are left after ripping the big planks, just ask the guy is they have any small scrap pieces next time you go buy. That way he sill see that you are still buying and will give you the scraps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted June 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 to bookmatch all you need it 7x19, (normaly) I just got a piece that was 21" wide bookmatched because I needed 16". The most important part is how thich it is in order to get it bookmatched. You are in WA USA, you can get nice scraps (to test finishes) over there to test from the ones that are left after ripping the big planks, just ask the guy is they have any small scrap pieces next time you go buy. That way he sill see that you are still buying and will give you the scraps. ← It's from the outer part of the tree and still has the bark on the edge. I can just get a 7" x 19" x 1 1/2" slab out of it, but only the top end has the quilt, and the bottom end has a small knot or two. Probably why it had been passed over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 You might be able to get a thin bookmatch out of it. Have it sliced into 3/4 from the side with nice figure and then bookmatch that into about 1/4-3/8 tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted December 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Technically, i believe that finish is Tiger eye, not tortoise shell. To get tiger eye, you do dark brown, sand out, Brown again in a lighter pass, Then a top coat of yellow. For the real tortoise shell,do the brown, sand out. Then do a diluted brown pass.Then do a pass of red, then scrub it out with alcohol. top it off with yellow. This gives you the 3 shades in real tortoise shell. Be carefull when scrubbing out with the alcohol. If you overdo it you can bleed through into the binding giving the dreaded "celery stalk effect". Good Luck ← Ah, yes... PRS has updated their site now. Here's the real tortoise shell: PRS tortoise shell McCarty PRS tortoise shell I like it a lot Can't believe it's December already. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Did you get anything finished with the stain? I'd really like to see how it went. I can't believe it's december either! Man, this year flew!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted December 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Did you get anything finished with the stain? I'd really like to see how it went. I can't believe it's december either! Man, this year flew!! ← No, not yet... I spent a lot of hours on the fingerboard inlay (it's done now - is there such a thing as inlay fatigue ) then went on vacation for 2 1/2 weeks in July, and didn't get back to guitar building until late October. I did some dye tests last week, and hope to have it nailed down this weekend. I'll try to get some pics posted very soon. Thanks, it's cool to have people interested in your stuff. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted December 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Getting awfully close... Tobacco Brown (Colortone - 1 part dye to 4.5 parts H20) Red Mahogany (mixed at 1:4.5) sand back Tobacco Brown (mixed at 1:16) Cherry Red (mixed at 1:16) Scrub out with damp rag Lemon Yellow (mixed at 1:16) Another pass of yellow The red mahogany really adds a lot of contrast compared with using brown alone. I'm still playing with the red/yellow balance. Pics as soon as my camera comes home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grindell Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) Getting awfully close... Tobacco Brown (Colortone - 1 part dye to 4.5 parts H20) Red Mahogany (mixed at 1:4.5) sand back Tobacco Brown (mixed at 1:16) Cherry Red (mixed at 1:16) Scrub out with damp rag Lemon Yellow (mixed at 1:16) Another pass of yellow The red mahogany really adds a lot of contrast compared with using brown alone. I'm still playing with the red/yellow balance. Pics as soon as my camera comes home. smile.gif Hey, I tried this today on a quilt top strat, and it looks great. Not quite there yet, but pretty close. I'll know better after I hit it with some clear. Plus, I'm color-blind. But still, looks pretty close. And, thanks to you guys. You guys rock! Edited December 19, 2005 by Grindell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted December 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 "Plus, I'm color-blind." As am I (a little trouble with greens & browns) so I always get a second opinion on my colors. I tried sanding back a little after the light brown pass - it got a little too dark otherwise. And I switched to alcohol for the scrub out - works better as it dries quicker and doesn't seem to disturb the underlying dyes as much. I sealed my samples with a washcoat of shellac, then hit them with a couple of coats of nitro lacquer. Talk about popping the figure! But I'm not quite there with the color. A little less red, and I want a little more contrast - the lights need to be a bit lighter. I'm going to try sanding back just a little before the last pass of yellow. Glad the info was helpful to you, Grindell. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grindell Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) Ok, here it is without clear. Edited December 19, 2005 by Grindell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grindell Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 And here it is with a shot of clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grindell Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 There's a little more tobacco and red in it than showed up on the pictures. I actually wish I had used a darker tobacco brown, maybe 1:10 on the second pass, then a 1:12 cherry red. I also went really hard with the wet cloth to wipe them together before using yellow. Funny, though. I actually really like this look. It wasn't exactly what I was going for, but I dig it. I'll try again on the next guitar, proably in about a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted December 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 You really have to start with a strong mix of brown or mahogany, wipe it on 2-3 times, let it dry for an hour, then sand back. My first tries were with the 1:16 mix and it didn't get nearly dark enough. I used 1:4 on the last batch. I'll post some pics tonight if I have time. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Well, this is where I'm at so far: The experiments continue... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grindell Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Very cool. Much darker than mine turned out. I'll try again on another guitar in a month or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 (edited) Very cool. Much darker than mine turned out. I'll try again on another guitar in a month or so. ← Mike- Looking nice, man! rich and smokey Grindell- yours actually looks pretty much like the artist series amber. Same idea, just a lighter base coat. Looks good. Edited December 22, 2005 by Rodney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted December 25, 2005 Report Share Posted December 25, 2005 Very nice Mike!!! That really looks like what you wanted no (with flame it should, at least) maybe use a little lighter yellow or something... You're pretty much there anyways!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted February 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Well, here's how it turned out... this is after the yellow pass, before the shellac washcoat: I basically followed Rodney's recipe: - Tobacco Brown (1 part Colortone stain to 4.5 parts H20) - Another pass of the dark brown - Sand back - Diluted Tobacco Brown @ 1:48 - Cherry Red @ 1:21 - Scrub out with alcohol - Lemon Yellow @ 1:21 It should really pop when I get the clearcoat on. If you're interested, the progress pics are here: Mikhail's Project Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Very nice!!! Well done! Gonna do the natural binding? This ones gonna be a killer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.