Jehle Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 A fellow that I work with in my day job told me about these plans to build a CNC machine. He knows about my plans to build an archtop and thought that I would like to know that this sort of thing can be built from a dremmel, a couple of stepper motors, and a few gizmos that plug into the parallel port of your PC. I'm stunned at the thought of building my own CNC router in the garage now. Have a look at this link and judge for yourself. I was really tempted back when GuitarFreak posted his Strat build with the copy carver to build something like that. A CNC machine is very sexy in comparison. http://members.cox.net/walachcnc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Neat, though I wouldn't use a dremel to carve a top, it doesn't have the power and would take forever. I could see the one pictured on the website being useful for only logos and inlays. I would look at modifying it for a real router if you want to rout bodies etc. with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Imagine.... I'd be happy with a copy carver for now, mind you. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Matt is right on the money. Neat machine but only powerful and rigid enough for the lightest work. Inlay and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 There are some other kits out there for heavier routers. I'm on a mission now to find out more. In fact, there is another site mentioned in the first one (not a link, but it's in the text). Looks like you can buy the whole kit and build your own CNC from a vertical milling machine. http://www.xylotex.com/SherlineCNCKit.htm Mind you, I don't have $1200 to blow on something like this. Gotta find a way to do that for less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Interesting! Not large enough for a guitar body, though, I wouldn't think. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Have a look at this link and judge for yourself. I was really tempted back when GuitarFreak posted his Strat build with the copy carver to build something like that. A CNC machine is very sexy in comparison. http://members.cox.net/walachcnc/ ← That's very nice, ...but it Guitarfrenzy, we all know Matt is a bit of a Freak thought, but wrong name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Have a look at this link and judge for yourself. I was really tempted back when GuitarFreak posted his Strat build with the copy carver to build something like that. A CNC machine is very sexy in comparison. http://members.cox.net/walachcnc/ ← That's very nice, ...but it Guitarfrenzy, we all know Matt is a bit of a Freak thought, but wrong name! ← Bah, sorry. Guitarfreek... Guitarfrenzy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringkilla Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 (edited) Hey fellas, anybody interested in cnc dyi. go to cnczone.com and check out the forums plenty of info on all aspects of the art of building a cnc machine. Good luck, it can be a let down. Enter with an open mind. Edited June 8, 2005 by stringkilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 I've said it many times before, only the rich can afford to do things cheaply when it comes to stuff like this. Decent stepper motors will cost you more than $500. I'd rather put my time and effort into a duplicarver than a CNC unless I could afford a kickass CNC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 LGM is right. I've been checking this stuff out for a while now. The cheapest thing I've seen that is effective is the shopbot. Donald Wilson is making an archtop in the in progress section, he is using a shopbot. A base shopbot will run you $10k, and I've read alot that questions the accuracy of that machine. Most of the pro builders are using machining centers like Haas and Fadal. They aren't using these because they had a ton of money to throw at a cnc, but its what they needed to do an adequate job. I don't say all of this to throw water on your fire, but I don't think $500 is going to get you what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 (edited) I build CNC plasma cutting machines (and repair them) as part of my regular business and the difference between what we build and what you need to reliably route wood is immense! We don't use stepper motors because they don't have the response time or speed capabitities plasma and oxy-fuel needs. BUT, we don't have to overcome latent resistive tool-force cause our tools don't touch the part. Any errors that are caused by the machine not getting to the next increment (due to friction or collisions) are caught and corrected for by the position encoders used to tell the servo system what to do next. The cheaper stepper systems assume that this will never happen and just counts step instructions given to the motor. Therefore, use the sharpest, highest horsepower router you can find to keep from bogging the steppers down. I prefer the little 4 horse air-routers made by ARO. They wiegh about one and a half pound and last forever, if oiled. When you are actually forcing a tool through material you are a lot closer to a CNC milling application and we don't mess with those. They are cheap, slow and powerful, just like you would want to route wood. And, wow, are they accurate! Darn, almost forgot my point. The DIY retrofit kits and such that I have seen for mills are very much up to the task as long as you don't ask them to do it very fast. I helped an old friend setup a X-Y table to engrave plastic wiring-box seperators and it was a piece of cake but he thought it should only take ten seconds to do a 2 by 3 foot grid and, in fact, it takes about ten minutes. That, IMHO, is his bad. There is about 220 linear feet of routing involed. Edited June 13, 2005 by thedoctor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald k wilson Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 jer, I think I read the same complaints about shopbot as you did and I had concerns. I did some more research and found the problems were primarily with the old cable drive systems. My machine is rack and pinion and seems to be very reliable with (they say) return accuracy to .001. I can't really say, I haven't tested it. In my experience over 4 years it seems to be fine. More to the original point, my machine is large, with 4x8 table and I use it all. I thought it was robust but after using it over time I would want it built more solidly! (Shopbot now offers a better built table.) I used to cut 4x8 sheets of plywood on a 10" contractors saw and we made it work but when I had the chance I upgraded to a full 14" cabinet shop saw and never looked back. I would apply that same logic to a cnc machine. happy hunting and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Have a look at this link and judge for yourself. I was really tempted back when GuitarFreak posted his Strat build with the copy carver to build something like that. A CNC machine is very sexy in comparison. http://members.cox.net/walachcnc/ ← That's very nice, ...but it Guitarfrenzy, we all know Matt is a bit of a Freak thought, but wrong name! ← Bah, sorry. Guitarfreek... Guitarfrenzy... ← lol... I should have used GuitarFreek.. I agree with you guys, I think you had better stick to a copy carver, duplicarver, until you are making enough guitars to make or buy you a good CNC. HAAS preferably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 One thing about Mike Walachs CNC that some of you might not notice: It is x-y CNC, with means that even though it has a motor for moving the dremel up and down, the softvare is for transfering a 2D-picture onto plywood or similar. This is not suitible for carving archtops, necks or similar. I sell komponents for CNCs in my day job, and I know how much more processing power a tru 3D-CNC will need to do the job, compared with a 2D-CNC. To syncronice 3 axis (and thats whats needed to get a smooth 3D shape) requires much more power than an ordinary PC offers. For this you need a profesional motion control system that will cost a fortune (even for me that can get the parts for about 30% of the list price). To get a 3D-CNC to pay for itself you probbly need to make more than 1000 guitars/year. Sorry if I dissapoint you gus, but thats the truth. BTW, Even if I could get my hands on a 3D-CNC for free (nd I have had that oportunity), I wound hesitate to bring it into my shop. I know how much time it takes to program the thing! I would probably be able to hand-carve 10 to 20 tops in the time I had to spend programming the thing, not including the time to correct my errors,, and thats for the first top. New top shape; another hundred hour to program. Sorry to let you guys down, but tru CNCs are for high volume companies. But as someone pointed out. it would probably work well for inlays: Cut the inlays, scan them, transform them inte CAD-files ('cos thats what the softare is using) and rout the fretboard. This means I could have saved a day or two on my latest trea-of-life inlay... Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) Anyone know where a good place to buy one is. Like a big huge one. Robotics needs one and im treasurer so i want to see how much it costs. I am trying to reschedual all our money plans to make the team some serious money this year. I will have a few grand to spend if i get lucky, so i want to know where to buy one. Also, i need it to cut metal and wood, or just metal. but prefferably both so on off season i can just load the G Format to build a guitar. LOL Oh and it has to be 3 demensions minimum. Edited July 11, 2005 by monkey69962000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Additionally, unless I'm missing something, none of those include the necessary control components (the box that goes between the computer and the motors). And CNC freeware? I don't know how far I'd trust that stuff. Most industry-standard software is just a wee bit more than free... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 (edited) Anyone know where a good place to buy one is. Like a big huge one. ... I will have a few grand to spend if i get lucky, so i want to know where to buy one. ... Oh and it has to be 3 demensions minimum. ← You keep asking this in different threads, and the answer keeps being the same: you're just not being realistic. Good CNC software alone costs a few thousand dollars, and the hardware is more than that. Good CNC equipment is EXPENSIVE. For $2000-3000 you could maybe buy a small 3 axis desktop mill (probably with max travel of 10"x6"x6" or so) of possibly questionable quality without software. They get exponentially more expensive as you go up in size. Edited July 12, 2005 by jnewman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Oh and it has to be 3 demensions minimum. ← 3 dimensions minimum? 1st dimension:width 2nd dimension: height 3rd dimension: depth 4th dimension: (are you ready for this?)... some would argue Tetraspace(don't ask), but it's most commonly accepted as time So a fast CNC machine would cut in 4 dimensions because it cuts time! Get it?! hahaha Anyhoo, I agree. Either get a really good CNC machine, or get a duplicarver. There's no point in sinking 10grand into a machine that only does marginal work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Dang, tgm beat me to the 4th dimension quip. 'Twas a better joke than what I would have come up with anyhow! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksolid Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 4th dimension: (are you ready for this?)... some would argue Tetraspace(don't ask), but it's most commonly accepted as time so in otherwords, a CNC machine without the 4th dimension (time) wouldn't work? well in THAT case theres ALOT of CNC's being advertised that don't MOVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 im not saying a build it yourself cnc this time. Already build im saying. I may have 15k to spend if i get lucky. Also 4th and 5th demensions are there. Its sometimes a lathe or 2 lathes. i this 2 lathes. But i know the 4th is a lathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 What the HECK are you talking about with the dimensions, monkey? The 4th dimension is a lathe? I can barely believe that you're not joking. Also, I'd love to be at your school. What school has 15k to throw around at the robotics club? Either you're at a private school or you're getting your hopes up. A principal would rather use that money to buy books, computers, and paper for the photocopier than buy a CNC machine for the robotics club. If you have a heavy industrial arts component to your school's delivery of curriculum, I could imagine POSSIBLY they'd invest in one for the entire school (mostly used by the tech students), but beyond that, not a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey69962000 Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 (edited) when talking about CNC's i have always seen 4 demensions as a lathe/mill style. Ill try to find one. I think the correct terminology i should have said is 4th axis. Edited July 12, 2005 by monkey69962000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 monkey, It's already been explained. X, Y, and Z are the 3 dimensions. Objects are in 3D. You can't make an object that's in 4D. The fourth dimension is still a matter of debate but it's generally accepted that it is TIME. Perhaps the fifth dimension is love. JK. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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