javacody Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 In general this is a great forum, but there are some folks who just get very nasty. (they will be the folks who probably reply most to this thread if it stays). While I respect their ability to build, I don't respect their attitude. I've pointed this out a couple of times, and my posts have disappeared without so much as a word. Can we have an even enforcement of the forums rules? PLEASE??? Yes, you are a master guitar builder and yes we should all kiss your feet, but do you think you could have the decency to not rip our heads off when we ask a stupid question? Fer cryin' out loud? Sure, we can go somewhere else, but why can't you take a walk for a minute when a new poster pisses you off with the same stupid question that has been posted 400 times? Maybe count to 10 before you post? Everyone has bad days, but so many of the "gurus" can be such a**holes at times (no offense). You gotta wonder if guitar building is the only thing going right in their lives? Moderators, please don't delete this thread as you've done so often in the past, as I would really like an open discussion on this. I'm prepared for flames and I won't respond in kind. Quote Link to comment
westhemann Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 i can give it a chance to be a fair,open discussion...but any flaming and i will have no choice but to close it. but i think most of this sort of thing is just a type of "global madness"...maybe due to the heat? Quote Link to comment
psw Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 I'm tempted not to add to the current overdose of miscontent amoungst us...but...really I think the tetchy replies are far out wieghed by the overall camaraderie around here and the really helpful replies... In short, even though I've been critical...it really is pretty mild...not just compared to other forums but even compared to some stuff that's happened in the past, right here... I'm not trying to be sychophantic here, I really think it's the truth, PG is a great resource and a great place to visit....there's some great stuff going on here and these threads and the "odd" (and I mean odd in every sense) comment here and there should not overwhelm what is a really good thing... For my part, take a look at the Sustainer Sounds thread (he says blowing his own horn)...for the first time you can actually hear what the infamous, 18 month old, 61 page long, 900+ post, 18-19,000 visit thread has been about... But there are plenty of great discussions going on around the place, super thin solid bodies, peoples projects...check out this months GOTM entries (how are we going to choose!?)...fantastic stuff.... I'd just like to suggest we all check out the positives out here...there's plenty of them... That's all from me... pete Quote Link to comment
feylya Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Ever since the slam thread was closed, everyone has been taking everything WAY too seriously. Christ, it's like everyone gave up smoking and now they're biting everyones heads off. I have a few ideas for this place but I seriously doubt anyone in power would listen. Quote Link to comment
lovekraft Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Can we have an even enforcement of the forums rules? PLEASE??? I don't get this - the prevailing attitude in these "I'm not flamebaiting or anything, but..." posts seems to be that there is an elite cabal around here that is constantly abusing the rules to the detriment of other members, especially the poor new guys who have no chance to defend themselves, because they get singled out for mistreatment by the hall monitors, ...err, uh, I mean the mods! Please cite specific infractions, with quotes if possible - anything else is slander by innuendo, and this isn't CNN or Fox News. Please, document the wrongs you've suffered at the hands of these brutes, and they will be duly chastised. Quote Link to comment
jmrentis Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 I'm tempted not to add to the current overdose of miscontent amoungst us...but...really I think the tetchy replies are far out wieghed by the overall camaraderie around here and the really helpful replies... In short, even though I've been critical...it really is pretty mild...not just compared to other forums but even compared to some stuff that's happened in the past, right here... I'm not trying to be sychophantic here, I really think it's the truth, PG is a great resource and a great place to visit....there's some great stuff going on here and these threads and the "odd" (and I mean odd in every sense) comment here and there should not overwhelm what is a really good thing... For my part, take a look at the Sustainer Sounds thread (he says blowing his own horn)...for the first time you can actually hear what the infamous, 18 month old, 61 page long, 900+ post, 18-19,000 visit thread has been about... But there are plenty of great discussions going on around the place, super thin solid bodies, peoples projects...check out this months GOTM entries (how are we going to choose!?)...fantastic stuff.... I'd just like to suggest we all check out the positives out here...there's plenty of them... That's all from me... peace.gif pete I fully agree with you on this! Quote Link to comment
feylya Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Quick question - are all the moderators either American or Austrailian? Quote Link to comment
psw Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 I think the silent (god bless 'em) majority agree too... oh and BTW...Sorry to you and everyone else for any past misdemeaner's by the way...time to move on, and up.... Oh and Wes...I can't even blame the heat...it's winter down here.... pete Quote Link to comment
westhemann Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Quick question - are all the moderators either American or Austrailian? ← i never thought about it...but why does it matter? what else do you want to know?are we all white?do we all have long hair?are we all conservative?i don't know the answers to these questions. and since you can check the locations as easily as i can...then it seems to me you are trying to stir up some notion of favoritism here...which is uncalled for,as we moderate based on nothing more than posting,in the context of the thread itself the only thing that is important is that we all play guitars of some variety,we all like to mod or build them,and we are all human beings with a cleanly run forum at heart. Quote Link to comment
javacody Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 I agree with the positive stuff. I've learned a whole lot from the folks here. Most are kind, and the really talented guys are usually kind, but sometimes, man, they lay into someone really bad. I don't want to cite specifics, I don't want to dig up the past too much, I'd just like to see people take a couple of deep breaths and reread what they typed in anger at least three times before they click submit. I forgot to mention how awesome this forum is and how awesome projectguitar.com is. I wouldn't have donated if I didn't think this place was worth it. ($10 is nothing, but I won't give someone money without good cause!) Also, I think the mods do a good job mostly. HPLoverCraft (a little joke on your name and my favorite author), I don't think the electronics forum has too many problems, which is where I normally see you. Quote Link to comment
feylya Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 (edited) i never thought about it...but why does it matter? what else do you want to know?are we all white?do we all have long hair?are we all conservative?i don't know the answers to these questions. and since you can check the locations as easily as i can...then it seems to me you are trying to stir up some notion of favoritism here...which is uncalled for,as we moderate based on nothing more than posting,in the context of the thread itself the only thing that is important is that we all play guitars of some variety,we all like to mod or build them,and we are all human beings with a cleanly run forum at heart. No no no, it's got nothing to do with trying to stir up anything. It's just that I find Americans to be quite strict with things. Perhaps strict is the wrong word but deleting people's posts or otherwise editting can come across wrongly, even if the content of the post was against the rules. But no, I am seriously not trying to stir up any trouble for favouritism or another else like that. Edited July 14, 2005 by feylya Quote Link to comment
westhemann Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 i never thought about it...but why does it matter? what else do you want to know?are we all white?do we all have long hair?are we all conservative?i don't know the answers to these questions. and since you can check the locations as easily as i can...then it seems to me you are trying to stir up some notion of favoritism here...which is uncalled for,as we moderate based on nothing more than posting,in the context of the thread itself the only thing that is important is that we all play guitars of some variety,we all like to mod or build them,and we are all human beings with a cleanly run forum at heart. No no no, it's got nothing to do with trying to stir up anything. It's just that I find Americans to be quite strict with things. Perhaps strict is the wrong word but deleting people's posts or otherwise editting can come across wrongly, even if the content of the post was against the rules. But no, I am seriously not trying to stir up any trouble for favouritism or another else like that. ← well,maybe so...expect things to be a bit strict for a bit until things calm down... we are quick to delete or edit as we see fit ...just trying to put out the flames. to be honest,i think this thread is a bad idea...all it does is stir up a discussion that we already know can't be agreed upon.too many different opinions. opinions are great...and if everyone respected other's rights to them,there would be no need for moderating...but we all know how that works. as far as the experienced guys being harsh...it's caused by watching guys ignore the good advice and go with the guy who says what they want to hear...then when they end up with faded food colored finishes,or lost money,or a too heavy guitar,etc......it's a bit tough to take,knowing the good advice was there,but was ignored because it was not given emphatically enough,and the bad advice was not rebutted emphatically enough. Quote Link to comment
feylya Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Well, that's fair enough. But there are some simple things that can be done to resolve some of the issues. For instance, people not liking images being repeated over and over as people quote replies with quotes in them. I sent you the solution to that yesterday. People posting incorrectly in the Tutorials section. Remove member's abilities to start new threads in there and get the mods to move the tutorial into that section. People swearing. Install a word filter. I know you're trying to keep this as a family website, so replace the word with asteriks. Images that case sideways scrolling. Install a picture resizer or encourage people to use thumbnails. Newbies not using the search function. Remove their ability to start new threads until they've posted 10 times or make the search function more obvious. And relax. This place is supposed to be fun but everyone is attacking everyone. Remember when the Slam thread was around. Everyone could attack everyone else just for a laugh and some fun. If someone had something to say about someone else, they said it in there, not in the middle of a topic about whether LMII die is better than StewMac stuff. But that's just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment
javacody Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 as far as the experienced guys being harsh...it's caused by watching guys ignore the good advice and go with the guy who says what they want to hear...then when they end up with faded food colored finishes,or lost money,or a too heavy guitar,etc......it's a bit tough to take,knowing the good advice was there,but was ignored because it was not given emphatically enough,and the bad advice was not rebutted emphatically enough. People weighing in and telling other people that something sounds like a bad idea is a good thing. Trying something new and sharing your results (and posting updates a year or two down the road) I find some value in as well. I found that whole food coloring thread very educational. It was cool to read people discuss why it was a bad idea. Also, as far as moderation, how about an email to the author when a post is deleted or edited? Just so people aren't left wondering what is going on? Quote Link to comment
feylya Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Also, as far as moderation, how about an email to the author when a post is deleted or edited? Just so people aren't left wondering what is going on? ← Even putting "Post Deleted" would be better, imo. Quote Link to comment
AlGeeEater Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Also, as far as moderation, how about an email to the author when a post is deleted or edited? Just so people aren't left wondering what is going on? ← Even putting "Post Deleted" would be better, imo. ← And then a reason why Quote Link to comment
feylya Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Not even a reason why. As far as I'm concerned, Mods don't have to answer to us. Sure, it'd be nice to know why a post was deleted but you can more than likely assume it was either way off topic or just spam. Quote Link to comment
AlGeeEater Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Not even a reason why. As far as I'm concerned, Mods don't have to answer to us. Sure, it'd be nice to know why a post was deleted but you can more than likely assume it was either way off topic or just spam. ← Obviously you should know, yeah, but incase someone else see's it different they should atleast know I guess. The mod's will PM you when you do something wrong though, so whatever Quote Link to comment
westhemann Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 For instance, people not liking images being repeated over and over as people quote replies with quotes in them. I sent you the solution to that yesterday. i am not the guy to send that to...you guys have some good suggestions,but sending them to brian is the way to go...i don't understand all of that code stuff,and i have no power to implement it anyway...i appreciate that you take the time to look into it,but really,send it to brian. you would be surprised how many suggestions i get in my p.m. box...to be honest i rarely read them...since i don't understand how any of that stuff works,i don't want to be the one passing on all of that stuff to brian,because if it is crap,then i am the one that looks a fool for sending him all the crap(not that your suggestion is...just telling you why i don't pass them on) i get alot of alarmist stuff too...similar to "your whole forum could go down any second if you don't read and understand these 10 web pages of nerd content and get back to me!!!!" People swearing. Install a word filter. I know you're trying to keep this as a family website, so replace the word with asteriks. brian doesn't want that...but it may come to that,if it hasn't already....i have not noticed much cursing lately,have you? Newbies not using the search function. Remove their ability to start new threads until they've posted 10 times or make the search function more obvious. never going to happen...the first option is not a way to encourage an open forum...and the search function is VERY obvious...it's the newb that doesn't want to search that is the problem...you could make the search function 480 by 640 and put it at the top of the page and the same guys would still be scrolling past it to post a new topic "can i use the pine in my dad's headboard to make a neck?" Quote Link to comment
westhemann Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Also, as far as moderation, how about an email to the author when a post is deleted or edited? Just so people aren't left wondering what is going on? if they read the rules,they know Quote Link to comment
feylya Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 i am not the guy to send that to...you guys have some good suggestions,but sending them to brian is the way to go...i don't understand all of that code stuff,and i have no power to implement it anyway...i appreciate that you take the time to look into it,but really,send it to brian. you would be surprised how many suggestions i get in my p.m. box...to be honest i rarely read them...since i don't understand how any of that stuff works,i don't want to be the one passing on all of that stuff to brian,because if it is crap,then i am the one that looks a fool for sending him all the crap(not that your suggestion is...just telling you why i don't pass them on) i get alot of alarmist stuff too...similar to "your whole forum could go down any second if you don't read and understand these 10 web pages of nerd content and get back to me!!!!" OK, that's fair enough. I'll forward them on to him so. brian doesn't want that...but it may come to that,if it hasn't already....i have not noticed much cursing lately,have you? Admittedly, people have been quite reserved but I still have to think twice then erase what I wrote when I'm on this forum. I often use swearing to illustrate a point. Probably not a good thing but it's there. never going to happen...the first option is not a way to encourage an open forum...and the search function is VERY obvious...it's the newb that doesn't want to search that is the problem...you could make the search function 480 by 640 and put it at the top of the page and the same guys would still be scrolling past it to post a new topic "can i use the pine in my dad's headboard to make a neck?" Even something like changing the background of the New Thread box to something like "Have you searched for this topic thoroughly first?" might help. Again, that's a php hack that Brian would need to look into. BTW, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my queries. Quote Link to comment
AlGeeEater Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Also, as far as moderation, how about an email to the author when a post is deleted or edited? Just so people aren't left wondering what is going on? if they read the rules,they know ← Not everyone read's the rules. I didn't Quote Link to comment
bluespresence Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Quick question - are all the moderators either American or Austrailian? Actually my family is 1/2 Irish but the Irish couldn't handle us so they threw us out back to the topic.... What's so hard about coming in here, acting like a respectful person, contributing when you can, gleaning knowledge when you need it and not being a jerk off in between? 99% of the people here don't seem to have a problem with that but there seem to be a few that must, for the sake of attention or some mental instability, continue to harass the forum and cause disruption. It ain't that hard people. I have seen some conversations in here in the last 2 weeks that, if held face to face, would have resulted in some folks getting their heads taken off. Why not talk as if the person is standing in front of you and use respect for them and the place you are? Having been around here for a while it seems the forum runs fine for a few months then a new member comes around, starts a load up and gets everyone in a tizzy for a few weeks. After the new guy goes away it all goes back to normal. Why not ignore the troublemaker, get on with life and keep the forum on an even keel? As far as suggestions go they are taken into consideration by Brian and Kevan who are both extremely busy with things like earning a living and running a business. Those things take priority to what may seem important here. The problem with suggestions is the troublemaker shows up, pisses everyone off, stirs up the pot and 300 suggestions come at them in one week. When they don't get addressed immediately threads like this start up and continue to drag the forum down when we should be happy little guitar builders and not forum junky whiners. 'nuf said? I can say more......... Quote Link to comment
feylya Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 What seriously confuses me is that the forum ran reasonably well for ages, with some great members posting (LGM, drak, Rhoads, AlexVDL) but now these members and others are being attacked and driven away from the forum that they helped become what it is today. There's something very wrong there. Quote Link to comment
westhemann Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 What seriously confuses me is that the forum ran reasonably well for ages, with some great members posting (LGM, drak, Rhoads, AlexVDL) but now these members and others are being attacked and driven away from the forum that they helped become what it is today. There's something very wrong there. ← well you see...those members you mention are the same ones that the little p.c. police on the forum(mostly newbies) have problems with...so you see the problem? half of you guys know the value of these members and take the stern advice for the good advice that it is...the other half only want to complain thet their feelings were hurt. but i don't think these members are being driven away...they are all very stubborn,and refuse to be bothered by temper tantrums. Quote Link to comment
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