rhoads56 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 he hasnt editted any posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Does delta make anything similar to grizzly's 12" bench top band saw? Here is a 10": http://www.deltawoodworking.com/index.asp?e=136&p=5840 Here is a 12": http://www.deltawoodworking.com/index.asp?e=136&p=4651 Like Wes, I used to use a little 9" bandsaw, some super cheapo import thing from Sears, though it ROCKED at cutting even 4" EBONY! Really suprized me, though it had poor blade tracking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdguitars Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 sorry bout that then. it was late and i missed that last post or something. thats a good list out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBlack Posted August 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Cheers for the links matt - only thing is they don't deliver to the UK, anyone know of an importer or a company willing to ship? Also, i've ordered Mervyn Hiscocks book, in that does he explain different ways of cutting body blanks, or does he have a specific way? I think I will make templates, my first guitars are going to be a slightly custom explorer shape (to avoid copyright issues) and I intend to make two at the same time. One I will keep, the other I hope to sell and use the money for more wood/tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 I agree with mledbetter on the template issue. Cutting out the body can be done faster if your just cutting outside of the line and not trying to be exact, the closer to the line the better though. In doing so you can use your templates and flush trim pattern bit to route off the wood past the line. Be careful for tearout, I use a robo sander before I use the router just for this reason. I would definitely recommend you cutting out and making precise templates so that you work smarter instead of harder. I've said it a million times and I'll say it again here. It's a lot easier sanding the edge of a 1/4" template perfect, than trying to sand the edges of a 1-3/4" piece of hardwood perfect. So get your templates perfect, then trace around it to get your line. Cut just outside the line with whatever tool you have (bandsaw, scroll saw, jigsaw), if it's over 1/16" wood left away from the line I like to use a Robo-Sander to get it real close, then router with flush trim bit to finish it. There are a million ways to get the same results though. Good luck MaTT Vinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBlack Posted August 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Thanks Matt, I appreciate you outlining the steps there. I think thats how I am going to work, I came to most of the steps mentioned anyway, but I like the idea of the router to get accurate to the template, I was thinking of just doing it with a sander, but I can see the router would add a better profile. What wood and thickness do you guys usually use for a template? I was thinking of just some 1/4 inch ply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Thanks Matt, I appreciate you outlining the steps there. I think thats how I am going to work, I came to most of the steps mentioned anyway, but I like the idea of the router to get accurate to the template, I was thinking of just doing it with a sander, but I can see the router would add a better profile. What wood and thickness do you guys usually use for a template? I was thinking of just some 1/4 inch ply. ← Hardboard is easy and cheap but doesn't last as long. I've made several out of 5/8 ply. Some like acrylic.. but whatever you use, get a good master and dupe it. Never work off your master. I've made thatmistake and blew out a 50 dollar template I purchased. Luckily I had made a decent copy so I just made a new master, but still - it was a headache. On tearout and router bits. I had almost written off routing because I had ruined 2 ash bodies but having a good bit makes a huge difference. I bought a brand new 2" 1/2" shank flush trim and I have never had tearout. Minor tearout in figured wood, so that's still an issue, but in regular body wood you should be ok. Ash is prone to tearout because of it's grain structure so you have to keep the wood in mind too. If you really want to be careful, pick up a spiral flush trim. not cheap, probably 40-50 pounds in uk. they are about 80-100 bucks here in the states. The up or downward cut motion though will slice the wood rather than pulling it away from the edge. Last thing on patterns, making your first out of MDF is nice as it cuts easily and sands really smooth, then dupe it onto ply or something for a durable master. You don't want to work off the MDF ones as it will burn and if it ever gets wet you're screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdguitars Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Epoxy fixes a lotta problems, when you eat a template. I use that more than I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Some wise information there, mledbetter ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBlack Posted August 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 This is great stuff guy's thanks - your definitly filling in blank parts of knowledge here, and in the process giving me more confidence to actually start the building. I espeically appreciate the tip on router bits, and will look to purchase the one you mentioned, I definitly don't want tear-out. I will mainly be using mahogany, is that less or more prone to tear out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 (edited) I will mainly be using mahogany, is that less or more prone to tear out? Its happened to me, luckily only in an area that was covered over later. You can't control the wood's grain structure and density, you have to work that out as you go and judge what the best settings are. I got the best results by making shallow passes with the highest speed setting (if an option) and moving the router slowly and in the right direction. Practice on scrap. I've also learned a lesson about those thin areas that stick out, like a headstock wing, where you have a small section with endgrain on both sides. If you aren't careful the router bit will just knock the whole section off. Next time that spot is going to be done by hand. But generally, if all conditions that you can control ie. skill and precision, sharp bit, patience are there you can avoid tearout. All wood can be susceptible to tearout if it isn't approached in the right way. Edited August 3, 2005 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 This is great stuff guy's thanks - your definitly filling in blank parts of knowledge here, and in the process giving me more confidence to actually start the building. I espeically appreciate the tip on router bits, and will look to purchase the one you mentioned, I definitly don't want tear-out. I will mainly be using mahogany, is that less or more prone to tear out? ← Any wood can have tearout, some do it easier than others though. I would recommend you making multiple passes when routing though. Trying to make a complete 1-3/4" cut for the edge in one pass will usually end up giving you headaches, unless you have only a small amount of wood over the template, have a high quality bit, or don't try to work too fast or too slow. Moving too fast will cause tearout and worse. Moving too slow will cause burn out on the wood (that's fun to sand out.. not).. lol It will only take you a little longer to make three or four small passes, than one big pass, and your results will be better. That is until you can get the hang of build, then you can do whatever works for you. This post has been very informative. First off, I would have never considered a scroll saw as a tool to cut out a guitar body, but now I've changed my views on it since Drak pointed it out. I'm always up for learning new things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBlack Posted August 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Paitence I can do - guess i'll have to dive in and see how it goes. I've orderd my wood and templates, and will hopefully cut my first body on the weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 I will mainly be using mahogany, is that less or more prone to tear out? I've also learned a lesson about those thin areas that stick out, like a headstock wing, where you have a small section with endgrain on both sides. If you aren't careful the router bit will just knock the whole section off. Next time that spot is going to be done by hand. But generally, if all conditions that you can control ie. skill and precision, sharp bit, patience are there you can avoid tearout. ← That's why I use the Robo-Sander for the headstock and neck exclusively. Let's just say I've learned from experience.. lol You made some good points Southpa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Cut just outside the line with whatever tool you have (bandsaw, scroll saw, jigsaw), if it's over 1/16" wood left away from the line I like to use a Robo-Sander to get it real close, then router with flush trim bit to finish it. There are a million ways to get the same results though. Good luck ← Ah, okay, let me get this straight -- I'm working on my template right now. I'll be using a collet to travel along the edge of the template (which is undersized to make up for the gap between the edge of the router bit and the collet). But you're recommend that I rough cut the body shape BEFORE using the router, right? I'd been planning on introducing the router bit close to the template (drilling a hole probably) and taking it from there --kind of like using the router as a saw in a way. Except I'll be doing many passes of no more than 3-4 mm deep. Is this a no-go? What's the advantage of doing the rough cut first? Cool thread, I'm getting lots of info too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Ah, okay, let me get this straight -- I'm working on my template right now. I'll be using a collet to travel along the edge of the template (which is undersized to make up for the gap between the edge of the router bit and the collet). By all means. First, a collet is the compression fitting inside the chuck that holds the router bit shaft. You need to use bits that have a roller bearing on the shaft to act as a guide when following a template. What you are describing isn't clear, are you considering using the actual collet that extends from the router chuck as a guide? But you're recommend that I rough cut the body shape BEFORE using the router, right? You bet. Then you slap on your template, which should be the exact same size and shape as the body outline, and follow the template with a straight bit that has a shaft mounted bearing. Afterwards, if you like, you can remove the template and use a roundover bit that has an end mounted bearing to radius the edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay5 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 If you try to "saw" the wood with the router you will burn your bit up MUCH faster than if you rough cut most of the excess off first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 I could be wrong, but I think what idch has been calling a collet is actually a guide bushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 I could be wrong, but I think what idch has been calling a collet is actually a guide bushing. ← Yep, that's it...all I had to go with was the French word for it....I have one that came with the router --makes working with it a LOT easier. The only difficulty is the gap between the bit and the edge of the bushing --that's why my template has to be slightly smaller than the full size of the body. One of the nice parts of using the bushing --and this is for the other woodworking wannabes out there -- is it becomes a lot more difficult to lose control of the router. So you see, I'm still using the router as a router --but basically I'd be routing a channel all the way through the body block, which is why I equate it with using a saw. The good part though is that I'm more likely to end up with straight sides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Rosenberger Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 So you see, I'm still using the router as a router --but basically I'd be routing a channel all the way through the body block, which is why I equate it with using a saw. The good part though is that I'm more likely to end up with straight sides ← You'll at best Burn up your bit and at worst injure yourself badly if you use that method. you see, the deeper you cut into the body the more unstable the waste side of the blank becomes. It can start vibrating which can cause the bit to grab it and either throw a large piece of wood or cause the router to kick back which is EXTREMELY Dangerous. That's why you rough cut the body shape first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Scott's right. You'd have less problems if you'd cut the waste away first, then use the router. You can see in this picture how I used to do it with a handheld router. I use a table top router nowdays for this job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 You'll at best Burn up your bit and at worst injure yourself badly if you use that method. you see, the deeper you cut into the body the more unstable the waste side of the blank becomes. It can start vibrating which can cause the bit to grab it and either throw a large piece of wood or cause the router to kick back which is EXTREMELY Dangerous. That's why you rough cut the body shape first ← Lesson learned! Glad I brought it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Byron, for your budget may I suggest this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBlack Posted August 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 That looks to be a very good deal, definitly in my budget range, and big enough to do what I want it to do. Cheers for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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