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Pott

Cheap Tools For Beginners

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PS: I'll get a bigger one. You're on!

i meant that the one you linked to is bigger than the one i have...do NOT get a bigger one.

any bigger than that 2 1/2 horse will be potential horror during kickback.and keep BOTH your damn hands on it during use....

you want to keep your genitals,don't you?because that is right where a runaway router goes.it's like a heat seeker.

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Ow... I see...ouch. Painful thought there.

I'll get a 1 and 3/4 if I can find, it seems to be a good all around value :D

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Ow... I see...ouch. Painful thought there.

I'll get a 1 and 3/4 if I can find, it seems to be a good all around value :D

up to you...i think 2.5 hp is allright...just don't go bigger.

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If a big horse router kicks on you you're taking too big a bite. I use an old ELU 3 hp plunge for about 75% of my work and I've never had it bite me. I take lots of shallow cuts.

I have however had the living crap cut out of me when a large roundover bit poped out, hit the floor and bounced up and climbed up my arm. I rout a lot of Coriaon and other solid surface products and if you get lazy like me and don't clean out your collet religeously this can happen.

I like the new Milwaukee routers. Lot of bamg for the buck, I've got one of the 1.75's with the wrap around grip that I use for edge detailing. I've used their big plunge and it's also pretty good.

Everything Bosch makes, I think, Is well worth the bucks.

Fein and Festool both make really great tools but I won't think about one until one of my other big ones dies, and the ELU is going on twenty years old and showing no signs of dying. I've had it rebouilt twice. New bearings and brushes.

I can't think of a single Japanese tool maker that I would recommend for a router. I know the Ryobi's are cheap but I have found the even cheaper Chinese knockoffs to be just as good.

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I know the Ryobi's are cheap but I have found the even cheaper Chinese knockoffs to be just as good.

all of my ryobi stuff says made in china....for what that's worth.

the ryobi IS the cheap chinese knock off.

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I picked up one of those Harbor Freight Routers(1-3/4 HP) at a yard sale a few weeks ago (lets just say cheap). It works great, plunge setting is not as smooth as some but it seems to do a very good job.

Peace,Rich

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I picked up a Chinese Made Router on ebay for about $30. It came with an edge guide, a 1/4" collect adapter, pattern bushings, its 1 3/4 hp and it plunges. I'm not experienced enough in this area to know if its good router or not, but my point is to keep an eye on ebay. :D

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I picked up a Chinese Made Router on ebay for about $30. It came with an edge guide, a 1/4" collect adapter, pattern bushings, its 1 3/4 hp and it plunges. I'm not experienced enough in this area to know if its  good router or not, but my point is to keep an eye on ebay.  :D

I own a 1100Watt Ryobi, and have to say that it far exceeds its monetary value, its very smooth with electric starting and breaking (reduces initial kick and tear-out) takes everything from 1/4 to 1/5 bits, has plunge, and comes with a side support.

I've used a number of bosch and deWalt routers, and have to say that the ryobi performs just as well as those for the tasks that I use it for. I can't recommend it enough.

Thats just my 2 pence worth.

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Ryobi is fine for light duty or intermitent use, no doubt about it. But for a router that can take a little punishment, is simple - and user friendly - to operate, and accurate with the factory settings.... Bosch. I'd put my money on them any day.

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Ryobi is fine for light duty or intermitent use, no doubt about it.  But for a router that can take a little punishment, is simple - and user friendly - to operate, and accurate with the factory settings.... Bosch.  I'd put my money on them any day.

I have a Milwaukee That the factory bought for me about 15 years ago. No plunge but hey it has brute strength. I know I shouldnt have but I have put end mill in it and routed 3/8"X3/8" channels in solid aluminum with 1 pass..... I figured if it broke they would buy me another. but it didn't and now after years of abuse, no play and its still going strong. I figure my kids will inherit it!

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I figure my kids will inherit it!

Now, that is the hallmark of any good tool!

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this is a little off from the router talk, but i was just wondering if anyone thought i would need any more tools to build a neck when i get to it.

i was going to get a stewmac preslotted fingerboard, stewmac neck blank, and stewmac fretwire. i have a router for the trussrod channel, a bandsaw, and plenty of clamps. my main concern is the actual neck shaping, as i havn't been able to find a website that explains that process. i was planning on getting some books and maybe a dvd, but with these standard tools (i think there's a hand planer somewhere too), would i need anything else/ how the hell do i do it?

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Well as you guessed, I want to get started with building guitars and some of its components.

The first try I will do will be a 16" radius maple fingerboard. Then I'll try and build my own neck without inlays, and then hopefully a bound, inlayed neck.

I am also planning on getting started on fretting as son as I can.

So I was thinking of buying:

Stew Mac's fretting kit

One of Stew Mac's radiused maple fretboard

a 16" and a 12" radius block (for later one when I will want to do compound radius

frets (mhmm duh)

Wood glue

Right now, what matters is what I'd need for the first project only, but I'm also looking for suggestions on what I'd need to build my own neck.

If you can think of any tools I may need aside from those I mentioned, I'd be more than happy :D Thanks!

If you want a compound radius, get all the different blocks between 12" and 16". Not just the extremes. You could simply join up the two ends with a flat block (in a sense, the easiest way for getting a conical fingerboard; the point of a concial/compound radius is that the fingerboard is flat and straight under each string, which isn't the case with a cylindrical/normal radius). Fretting tools that I feel are essential: SM fret tang nipper, fret nipper, fret file, something to level frets (file, flat old #5 plane body with sandpaper on, up to you). Good place to start. For inlay, small files, dremel with a good base, jeweler's saw, pateince. Binding fingerboards is really quite simply if you've got a tang nipper, BTW.

Neck building tools: if you're doing a scarf joint: good hand saw (Japanese saws == Teh Best), hand plane (decent block plane is my most used tool, followed by a jack plane, say a #4. UK made Stanley's aren't half bad for the price, but need some tuning. Any plane that's not a Lie-Nielsen, and to a slightly lesser extent Veritas, will need tuning.) If your wood isn't squared and planed already, you'll need the bigger of the two for that as well. Planes also make short work of trimming a fingerboard to size (taper). A router for truss rods/Carbon fibre. A jigsaw will do just fine; bandsaws are in the 'nice to have, but really not essential' category. I don't own one, won't own one for a while due to lack of space to store one, and I get by. Do I wish I had one? Yeah. Neck shaping: spokeshave if you want one, but I reccomend a microplane rasp, a half-round file, a set of scrapers, plenty of sandpaper. Re: clamps, Cam clamps are great. Won't mar the work (they're wood), easy to use, lightweight. I use about 8 clamps per neck when fixing a fingerboard. Bit overkill, perhaps, but I really don't believe in the mythological 'starving the glue joint', or that I'll ever get enough clamping pressure for that to be an issue.

Re: Glue, buy some titebond original. Not any of the other 'better' glues.

There's also the fact that you'll probably pay about twice what US folks are quoting for any given tool, if you get one of equivalent quality (Blue Bosch stuff is good, we don't have Porter Cable here). Pretty much forget finding small bandsaws of any quality at all for cheap; tools here tend to be either hobby quality, or full-on industrial quality. Annoying at times, but there you have it. OTOH, when you're ready to drop 1500 on a bandsaw, you can usually find a good deal on a quality Italian-made piece of kit.

Shopping tip: axminster.co.uk. UK-based shop, lots of power tools, including quite a few 'American' style ones (more or less the entire range of Jet tools, for quite a bit more than you'll see them in the US), all sorts of routers, and a pretty darn good selection of hand tools. Also carry titebond if you didn't know where to dig it up.

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Pretty much forget finding small bandsaws of any quality at all for cheap; tools here tend to be either hobby quality, or full-on industrial quality. Annoying at times, but there you have it. OTOH, when you're ready to drop 1500 on a bandsaw, you can usually find a good deal on a quality Italian-made piece of kit.

This is simply not true, there are many good and useful bandsaws around for not much money. I myself am using a cheap 10" sip bandsaw, and so far it's been faultless, i've cut the neck and fingerboard taper with it, the body shape, the scarf joint, the neck profile and even used it to tidy up some straight edges, all this work and it only cost £129.

Sure, its not the most fantastically built, and I can forget about re-sawing, but for someone who wants a cheap bandsaw to help with affor-mentioned tasks can't really go wrong.

There are also good and reasonably priced bandsaws from Record, DeWalt, Scheppach - all of which are very good machines, you certainly do not need to spend £1500 on a bandsaw unless you are doing a very level of work.

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Well that's a little list I made so far. It's only for my first electric guitar and doesn't include files, wood glue etc. Just the powertools

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=21362&recno=13 this seems like it'd do it for guitar. I think it has all the features I'd need.

That one seems even more attractive http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.js...=72038&id=22602

And that

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.js...=72431&id=49902

I don't think I'd need much more, tool wise. The drill press... Well it's for sidedots and holes only, i guess I can take care of that with a manual drill if I'm very careful? Would this work in case I really need one?

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.js...=72630&id=19847

Yeah I ask too many questions, I'd just rather be 100% sure before investing.

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Well that's a little list I made so far. It's only for my first electric guitar and doesn't include files, wood glue etc. Just the powertools

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=21362&recno=13 this seems like it'd do it for guitar. I think it has all the features I'd need.

That one seems even more attractive http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.js...=72038&id=22602

And that

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.js...=72431&id=49902

I don't think I'd need much more, tool wise. The drill press... Well it's for sidedots and holes only, i guess I can take care of that with a manual drill if I'm very careful? Would this work in case I really need one?

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.js...=72630&id=19847

Yeah I ask too many questions, I'd just rather be 100% sure before investing.

Ok first things first - if you want to buy a drill press you are better either buying a stand for a goood cordless drill OR spend £99 and get the better Rexxon one (from screwfix) I have that ferm drill and can tell you that it's the worse tool i've ever used. DO NOT buy FERM gear - its utter crap!

Onto the router, you'll be better off getting a router than can take both 1/4 and 1/2 cutters. If you go onto ebay, there is a seller called 'buyatool' and he does Ryobi gear. I have the Ryobi router that takes both sizes, and I got it from him for £39 + delivery. So far i've not used the 1/4 bits as the 1/2 bits are much more stable and provide a cleaner cut when doing the more heavy dutier stuff. Get the best and most powerful router you can afford.

You can't go wrong with Bosch, i've had a number of bosch tools (drill and sanders) over the years, and they are top notch. However, I would say that 500watt on a jigsaw is a little low if your cutting mahogany or maple, i tried it and it was quite a painful experience to get right.

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Alright. Should I aim at around 800 watts then?

I'll contact the seller for the router when time comes. Thanks!

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Alright. Should I aim at around 800 watts then?

I'll contact the seller for the router when time comes. Thanks!

800-1000watt will be a lot easier to use and give you a smoother cut without the blade getting bogged or overpowering the motor. IMO

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This is simply not true, there are many good and useful bandsaws around for not much money. I myself am using a cheap 10" sip bandsaw, and so far it's been faultless, i've cut the neck and fingerboard taper with it, the body shape, the scarf joint, the neck profile and even used it to tidy up some straight edges, all this work and it only cost £129.

Sure, its not the most fantastically built, and I can forget about re-sawing, but for someone who wants a cheap bandsaw to help with affor-mentioned tasks can't really go wrong.

There are also good and reasonably priced bandsaws from Record, DeWalt, Scheppach - all of which are very good machines, you certainly do not need to spend £1500 on a bandsaw unless you are doing a very level of work.

DeWalt's saws generally ain't cheap, and none of what you've mentioned translates as 'any quality' in my book. Useful, sure. What you've described there is a cheapie, decidedly hobby quality tool. A cheapie bandsaw will do as long as you're making relatively small cuts, and I wouldn't mind having one, but for the additional quality I get, no chance of doing any semi-serious resawing, they ain't great, and they're not worth the space. What I mean is that in the EU, we don't have the equivalents of a 14" Delta or Jet (or similar medium-sized woodworking machines, although the UK is better than most countries for those as well, if you ignore the crazy price tags) for anywhere near the prices they pay in the states (about half what you pay at Axminster for a Jet, anyway). Honestly, if I had more space, I'd probably get a small, 9-12" desktop bandsaw for things like trimming, smaller cuts, etc. but it's simply not worth the space cost for me now. Rather wait until I've got the room (and the money) for a bigger saw that'll be more useful to me in the long run.

Your 10" bandsaw is what I consider firmly in the 'hobby' category, not in the in-between category I'm talking about. For all the tasks you've mentioned, a quality jigsaw and a router will do just as well (or a hand saw if we're talking scarf joint), and take up less room to boot. Also, I said 1500, I meant dollars or Euros. Not pounds. 1500 pounds will get you a 24" bandsaw, second hand, quite easily. In fact, 1000 euros/dollars should get you a resaw-worthy bandsaw on the second hand market if you shop around some.

Pott: look for a router with a 1/2" collet as well, as mentioned. Might as well do it right the first time. The bigger and badder the jigsaw you get, the better off you'll be, and avoid Ferm like the plague. Utter, utter garbage.

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This is simply not true, there are many good and useful bandsaws around for not much money. I myself am using a cheap 10" sip bandsaw, and so far it's been faultless, i've cut the neck and fingerboard taper with it, the body shape, the scarf joint, the neck profile and even used it to tidy up some straight edges, all this work and it only cost £129.

Sure, its not the most fantastically built, and I can forget about re-sawing, but for someone who wants a cheap bandsaw to help with affor-mentioned tasks can't really go wrong.

There are also good and reasonably priced bandsaws from Record, DeWalt, Scheppach - all of which are very good machines, you certainly do not need to spend £1500 on a bandsaw unless you are doing a very level of work.

DeWalt's saws generally ain't cheap, and none of what you've mentioned translates as 'any quality' in my book. Useful, sure. What you've described there is a cheapie, decidedly hobby quality tool. A cheapie bandsaw will do as long as you're making relatively small cuts, and I wouldn't mind having one, but for the additional quality I get, no chance of doing any semi-serious resawing, they ain't great, and they're not worth the space. What I mean is that in the EU, we don't have the equivalents of a 14" Delta or Jet (or similar medium-sized woodworking machines, although the UK is better than most countries for those as well, if you ignore the crazy price tags) for anywhere near the prices they pay in the states (about half what you pay at Axminster for a Jet, anyway). Honestly, if I had more space, I'd probably get a small, 9-12" desktop bandsaw for things like trimming, smaller cuts, etc. but it's simply not worth the space cost for me now. Rather wait until I've got the room (and the money) for a bigger saw that'll be more useful to me in the long run.

Your 10" bandsaw is what I consider firmly in the 'hobby' category, not in the in-between category I'm talking about. For all the tasks you've mentioned, a quality jigsaw and a router will do just as well (or a hand saw if we're talking scarf joint), and take up less room to boot. Also, I said 1500, I meant dollars or Euros. Not pounds. 1500 pounds will get you a 24" bandsaw, second hand, quite easily. In fact, 1000 euros/dollars should get you a resaw-worthy bandsaw on the second hand market if you shop around some.

Pott: look for a router with a 1/2" collet as well, as mentioned. Might as well do it right the first time. The bigger and badder the jigsaw you get, the better off you'll be, and avoid Ferm like the plague. Utter, utter garbage.

Mattia, have you actually used some of the bandsaws that I mentioned - these all range from 12" to 14" and the DeWalt model can be had for under £500. I tested that unit recently and can confirm it is very good quality and easily a match for delta. Scheppach basato range is also top notch and a 12" can be had for under £400, if re-sawing is a priority then your somewhat right, but re-sawing is not all that a bandsaw can be used for. I disagree 100% that DeWalt or Scheppach are hobby tools - simply not true.

Your right in terms of my bandsaw (SIP) being a hobby saw - correct, but using it to build a guitar is much easier than using a jigsaw or handsaw, i've tried all three methods, and I would not be without a bandsaw.

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Mattia, have you actually used some of the bandsaws that I mentioned - these all range from 12" to 14" and the DeWalt model can be had for under £500. I tested that unit recently and can confirm it is very good quality and easily a match for delta. Scheppach basato range is also top notch and a 12" can be had for under £400, if re-sawing is a priority then your somewhat right, but re-sawing is not all that a bandsaw can be used for. I disagree 100% that DeWalt or Scheppach are hobby tools - simply not true.

I have not, no. My main point was that we don't have the mid-range models *at the mid-range pricepoint* like they do stateside. 400-500 is a big, hefty jump from 129 quid, and 400-500 translates to almost 1000 dollars US. 1000 dollars will get you a lot more bandsaw in the states than it will here, and 300-400 won't get you much at all here, but quite a lot there. 1000 bucks is hardly a 'middle priced' tool, if you'll pardon me.

And that's my point. Yeah, the saws are out there, but they're out of (financial) reach for most.

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Mattia, have you actually used some of the bandsaws that I mentioned - these all range from 12" to 14" and the DeWalt model can be had for under £500. I tested that unit recently and can confirm it is very good quality and easily a match for delta. Scheppach basato range is also top notch and a 12" can be had for under £400, if re-sawing is a priority then your somewhat right, but re-sawing is not all that a bandsaw can be used for. I disagree 100% that DeWalt or Scheppach are hobby tools - simply not true.

I have not, no. My main point was that we don't have the mid-range models *at the mid-range pricepoint* like they do stateside. 400-500 is a big, hefty jump from 129 quid, and 400-500 translates to almost 1000 dollars US. 1000 dollars will get you a lot more bandsaw in the states than it will here, and 300-400 won't get you much at all here, but quite a lot there. 1000 bucks is hardly a 'middle priced' tool, if you'll pardon me.

And that's my point. Yeah, the saws are out there, but they're out of (financial) reach for most.

With the conversion rate, you make a fair point, we should get used to it, this is afterall rip-off britain.

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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-IN-BOX-RYO...1QQcmdZViewItem is that the one good ebay Ryiobi that I should aim at?

That is the exact one I have, and so far it's been fine. But remember, if you can afford more for something better, then you should do it, however if your budget is limited, I can talk from personal experience and say that I think this is a fine router and should work well for you for quite a while.

BB

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With the conversion rate, you make a fair point, we should get used to it, this is afterall rip-off britain.

You should try visiting New Zealand :D my freind saved himself about $500USD by getting some koni shocks for his car from the UK instead of here.

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