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jay5

220 Volt Plug?

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So I have the oppurtunity to buy a 33 gal 6HP compressor form a guy. I am trying to put a paint rig together and this is a really good deal. The problem is that its a 220 volt motor with the big ass washer/dryer sized plug. Can I run this on the standard circut in my garage? What are my options here? Am I SOL :D

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Uggggggggggggghhhhhhhh :D Wonder how much it would cost to have an electrician do it. I'd kill myself.

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Uggggggggggggghhhhhhhh :D  Wonder how much it would cost to have an electrician do it. I'd kill myself.

Had an electrician friend of the family do mine so I dont know. Its not a big job, about an hours work. But yes 220 WILL kill you.

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Uggggggggggggghhhhhhhh :D  Wonder how much it would cost to have an electrician do it. I'd kill myself.

Had an electrician friend of the family do mine so I dont know. Its not a big job, about an hours work. But yes 220 WILL kill you.

So will 110 ;-)

Aren't 110 sockets generally more dangerous because of the greater amount of current flowing through them? That's the danger, really, not so much the voltage.

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Jay, I had the same issue when I got my 18" bandsaw. The solution for me was what they call a power tap (here). You plug into separate 110V circuits and you get 220V.

BUT...the trick is that the two 110V circuits need to be on separate voltage feeds from your main panel, the unit has a red light that comes on when you're plugged into outlets from separate feeds. In a normal main panel, adjacent breakers will be on separate feeds, so if you can find 2 outlets from 2 adjacent breakers, you're probably in business. But in a single room, often the outlets are far from each other. I had to run 2 extension cords to get mine hooked up.

Also, if the compressor draws more than the combined amperage of the two breakers (usually 2x15A) you're likely out of luck with the power tap, and you'll need an electrician. My bandsaw draws only 20A, but on start-up I still occasionally trip one of my 15A 110V breakers. Compressors often draw a lot of current when they fire up, so YMMV.

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How far is your main panel from where you want the compressor? Do you have any space in your main panel for more breakers? If you look at you main panel there are little metal tabs that cover the extra breaker spaces, if you don't have any metal tabs your box is full. If you have two tabs on top of each other, then you have room for a 220v breaker. From there it's an easy job to run the line, especially if your main panel is near where you want the compressor.

Even if you are not comfortable doing the work, I can't imagine it would cost too much to have a pro do it.

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If the deal on the compressor is that good, wouldn't you agree that it's worth a phone call to an electrician to get an idea of the cost of a 220 circuit?

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Erik, thanks for the info but that would put the thing out of my budget. I am gonna look into getting an electrician to look at this. Well see. May have to pass on this one :D

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Uggggggggggggghhhhhhhh :D  Wonder how much it would cost to have an electrician do it. I'd kill myself.

Had an electrician friend of the family do mine so I dont know. Its not a big job, about an hours work. But yes 220 WILL kill you.

So will 110 ;-)

Aren't 110 sockets generally more dangerous because of the greater amount of current flowing through them? That's the danger, really, not so much the voltage.

No. 110 sockets are not more dangerous. Yes the current is what will kill or hurt you. A couple dozen milliamps across your heart is enough to stop it (you don't want the current going in one arm, across your heart, and out the other arm ... be very mindful of where both hands are, and simply never work with the power on). The difference in current flow between the 110V circuit and the 220V circuit is not important here. What matters is how much current flows into your body when you stick your finger in the wrong spot. That is determined by the resistance of your body and is close enough to a dead short for purposes here. In either case you will get enough current to throw you across the room, and certainly does have the potential to kill you. If you don't know what you are doing, don't do it.

33 gallon is a pretty small tank for a 6HP compressor. Those big dryer plugs are 50 or 60 amp rated plugs, which should be a lot excessive for that compressor. You need to know haw many amps this thing will really draw, and be sure that your panel can handle it. Newer services are probably OK, but 50 amps is a pretty big hit for a lot of older panels. You need to know that your existing panel is sized to handle the load, and make sure that the wiring to the compressor is sized correctly for the load ... like 6 gauge for 50 amp. If the panel can't handle the load, you would need to upgrade the electrical service (lots of money, i've done it).

Do not screw around with gadgets to cobble this thing onto existing 110 outlets. It will be cheaper and safer to do it the right way in the first place.

Overall though it sounds like you should just find a 110V compressor. There are tons of them out there and they can be found fairly cheap ... certainly less than what you will end up spending by the time you have the 220V one up and running.

Good luck.

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Jay, I had the same issue when I got my 18" bandsaw.  The solution for me was what they call a power tap (here).  You plug into separate 110V circuits and you get 220V.

BUT...the trick is that the two 110V circuits need to be on separate voltage feeds from your main panel, the unit has a red light that comes on when you're plugged into outlets from separate feeds.  In a normal main panel, adjacent breakers will be on separate feeds, so if you can find 2 outlets from 2 adjacent breakers, you're probably in business.  But in a single room, often the outlets are far from each other.  I had to run 2 extension cords to get mine hooked up.

Also, if the compressor draws more than the combined amperage of the two breakers (usually 2x15A) you're likely out of luck with the power tap, and you'll need an electrician.  My bandsaw draws only 20A, but on start-up I still occasionally trip one of my 15A 110V breakers.  Compressors often draw a lot of current when they fire up, so YMMV.

Not a very good way to get a 220 ckt. You don't want the the phase legs to have such different lengths. The overall length of those circuit conductors is probably creating a lot of voltage drop (made even worse when the inrush current during starting occurs). You do not get 30 amps worth of capacity from 2 -15 amp breakers. You have a 15 amp 220volt ckt. Constantly overloading the breaker, conductors and devices is a good way to start a fire. Running the motor in an undervoltage situation (due to voltage drop on the conductors) is going to make it run hotter and cut its life. You would do better to just run the proper circuit, playing with household wireing is a bad idea (that is the last place you want to start a fire).

Peace,Rich

P.S. With regards to the shock hazard. Your skin (dry) has a fairly high resistance (usually better than 6000 ohms). Your bodys internal resistance is a couple hundred ohms depending. In most cases current flows across the surface of the skin. If you have an open cut the danger (even with lower potentials) is much much higher, and of course wet skin drops resistance also. The higher the voltage (potential) the higher the current flow across the resistance. If you don't feel like you understand how to work safely with electricity, just don't do it. If you are sweating on a hot day, or especially if you have open cuts. Use extream caution. Also remember if you are on a ladder and you get shocked, there is a good chance your going down the hard way (and falls are really dangerous).

(on a side note) I have been shocked arm to arm (across the chest), with 277v. I can tell you even with dry skin it was like bench pressing and doing curls until I pulled muscles. Took about a week until the muscles stopped hurting.

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This is one of those things that if you have the slightest doubt about, don't do it.

Learn on 110m not 220

110 can kill you if the conditions are right. 220 will kill you unless you're damn lucky.

For this type of thing, ask around and find and electricain who needs a quick cash job on an evening after his regular work. Ask anyone you know who works in construction.

I've ridden ambulances off and on since I was a medic in the service, and I've seen one too many screw ups with 220.

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I too was thinking the motor was a bit excessive for the tank. I havent asked, but Im wondering if the motor was "upgraded" at some point. The guy selling it does the finishing at Gadow Guitars, a company in my area. He bought it from Terry McInturff. Im wondering if it wasnt modified when it was at McInturff. I cant find any models w/ the 220 motor online (it's a Craftsman). I may just pass and go new down the road. I just got excited cause' it was a good deal and I could afford it now. Oh well. Thanks guys!

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What may have happened is that he just rewired the motor from 110 to 220. A lot of motors have this ability. Look at the wiring diagram that is either on the body of the motor or on the cover plate and see if it's a dual duty motor. I've switched a bunch back and forth and have never hurt myself or set anything on fire to date.

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Thanks Doc. That does make sense. I'm thinking of just avoiding the headache and buying one that runs on 115. I had an electrician come out and he estimated ~ $100. For $250 I could just buy a new one without all the hassle. Well see what happens. I'll let you guys know.

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I do think you would be better off with a 110V compressor. But, since you mentioned it was a Craftsman, I wonder if it really is a 6HP motor. Craftsman advertises many compressors that are 6HP PEAK / 2HP continuous compressors, which are a far cry from a real 6HP compressor. Also, most Craftsman compressors can be rewired for 220V operation, though a 50 or 60 amp plug would be way overkill. But it sounds like you already have the information you need.

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Thanks for all the advice so far men! So I had an electrician come out and it looks like he can do a 220v outlet on our circut. He needs to know how many amps the thing is pulling (as was said) so Im checking on that. But, it was mentioned that it was possibly rewired to run on 220v. So that begs the question, can I have it rewired back to 110/120 and save myself some trouble? Anywhere that I could take this that could do it?

As far as I can tell, this is the model, http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?...00&tab=des#tabs

The guy is about 30 min. away so I havent seen it in person, yet. I just emailed him to confirm the model, but from his description, thats it. Any advice?

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I do think you would be better off with a 110V compressor.  But, since you mentioned it was a Craftsman, I wonder if it really is a 6HP motor.  Craftsman advertises many compressors that are 6HP PEAK / 2HP continuous compressors, which are a far cry from a real 6HP compressor.  Also, most Craftsman compressors can be rewired for 220V operation, though a 50 or 60 amp plug would be way overkill.  But it sounds like you already have the information you need.

I true 6HP motor will not run off 120VAC. From my experience looking at tool HP and voltage ratings, 1.5HP is the max you can run off 120, as most 2HP motors are listed as running off 220VAC. A true 6HP motor may even be better off with 440VAC.

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Matt, youre probably right. The Craftsman are listed at 6hp max, 2hp running. The guy said he never had an issue running an HVLP gun w/ this unit, which ultimately is my goal. If I can spray a guitar with the thing, I dont care how many HP it's making or how many volts its running. I just want to make sure I can spray a guitar. I guess Im trying to weigh the pros/cons of 220v and 120v. I have accepted that there is most likely going to be some additional costs on top of the compressor ($150) to get it to run in my garage, I'm just trying to figure out if its all worth it.

BTW, the violin is looking great!

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Keep in mind what you're going to run off of the compressor. If you plan on using air tools as well, you will want high CFM. Pressure, and horsepower for that matter, does not mean a whole lot if you are using air tools. If its just painting then you can get away with a smaller compressor than that at a cheaper cost.

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All I want to do is paint. How small could I go? The gun I'm looking at (Devilbiss Finishline 3 HVLP) needs like 13CFM @ 10 PSI. This compressor supposidly puts out 8.6 @ 40 PSI. I dont know how the CFM/PSI curve continues, but I was anticipating this unit to be about right. I know that people have been successful with smaller (Cudbucket and his pancake) but the majority of my research points to "the biggest you can afford" mentality. This is cheap, and the biggest I can afford.

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Sounds like a shoe in. I have a small carry around one that makes 5.29 CFM at 90psi. Its good we used it to run the air nailer while roofing my uncle's place. Kept up to that running at about 85psi. You running the gun at 10psi...cant see a problem. (but this is just an inference) I have run an airbrush off it but thats hardly a comparison.

I paint using the big one...18.5 CFM ........*Tim Allen grunt*

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So guitarguy, how small do you think I can go? I dont know how to extrapolate on the figures regarding CFM/PSI you get from most manufactures. What model is your small "carry around" compressor. 5.9 @90PSI seems pretty big to me.

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As far as the relationsip. The higher the pressure the lower the CFM. This makes sense because the compresser has to push more air in to get that pressure. This is why I think you wil be fine with the one you mentioned. 8.6 @ 40psi will be greater then 8.6 CFM at 10 psi. How much greater I dont know. But I personally don't think you would have an issue. (but i say again this is an inference) I would say go as big as you can comfortably afford. A little overkill never hurt anyone.

This is the one I got. Its a tad tempermental but its a cheapo so what can you expect. Pretty much the equivalent of your harbour freight brand.

Mine

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My compressor is a small Husky one from home depot. THIS one to be exact. It's only 4 gallons and produces .8CFM at 90PSI(I think, i'll check later). It get's the job done. I can let the tank fill to about 100 PSI(it's rated for 125 MAX PSI) and spray a whole body without the compressor ever having to kick on. I'm using a conventional jamb gun which requires something like 1.2CFM at 90PSI. I am also spraying from around 35-40PSI unthinned lacquer.

Basically, it gets the job done. You might wan't to get a little bigger tank and comressor though so you can do 2 coats without having to kick on the compressor and rebuild pressure.

EDIT:The compressor you are buying now cost the same as the one I bought new. If I were you, I would buy the compressor and save up to get an electrician, or maybe even haggle with the seller. It's a really good value with a really big tank, so you're one lucky SOB :D

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