SwedishLuthier Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 OK, so now my page for the acoustic build is up. have a look here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitone Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 I've made some progress on my Acoustic. I even contacted Jim Williams, the writer of the book I'm using. I thought the book left some details out. Come to find out I was just jumping ahead of the book. It's a pretty interesting way he builds a guitar. He uses a Spanish style neck for his 6 strings. Some people on this forum thought that was very strange. Personally I'm seeing some incredible acoustic response. Not sure if it's from the neck or not. I just can't wait to get it together. My Blog or images Front Back Binding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 I've made some progress on my Acoustic. I even contacted Jim Williams, the writer of the book I'm using. I thought the book left some details out. Come to find out I was just jumping ahead of the book. It's a pretty interesting way he builds a guitar. He uses a Spanish style neck for his 6 strings. Some people on this forum thought that was very strange. Personally I'm seeing some incredible acoustic response. Not sure if it's from the neck or not. I just can't wait to get it together. My Blog or images Front Back Binding So you are using an unjointed neck and slotting the neck block for the sides? I think it is a cool style. I really like how the neck block supports the fretboard. The only downside is future adjustments to the neck angle are not as simple as a bolt on. I kinda think of that style as a "neck-thru" acoustic. Nothing wrong with Spanish style. They are harder for most guys I think because you have little room for adjustments in the neck angle, and has to be worked as a complete unit (can't remove the neck). Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitone Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 You know Rich, I've heard that and have thought about it. What I came up with is that if ever there was an issue with the neck. It could be replaced without destroying the instrument. I'm sure (way down the road I hope) that I could cut the neck off at the body, build a new neck and attached it with a dovetail. Now, I haven't looked into building an acoustic with a bolt on neck, but the thought really doesn't appeal to me. All of my electrics are set neck. I seem to have more issues trying to get a bolt on neck set up and aligned as well as a glued in neck. And there has got to be some added benefit to having essentially one unit with no screw or bolts to vibrate. But that just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 You know Rich, I've heard that and have thought about it. What I came up with is that if ever there was an issue with the neck. It could be replaced without destroying the instrument. I'm sure (way down the road I hope) that I could cut the neck off at the body, build a new neck and attached it with a dovetail. Now, I haven't looked into building an acoustic with a bolt on neck, but the thought really doesn't appeal to me. All of my electrics are set neck. I seem to have more issues trying to get a bolt on neck set up and aligned as well as a glued in neck. And there has got to be some added benefit to having essentially one unit with no screw or bolts to vibrate. But that just my thoughts. I like the Spanish style neck, and You could certainly cut the block and route and re-set. I am neck-thru guy on solid body also. I really like the way the sides fit up so nice with the Spanish style. It is a good construction style. I really don't take issue with the bolt on aspect. Some designs like Taylors are pretty slick. The ease of re-set, and flexability that bolt-on provides is very appealing. I think if it were me I would rather go Spanish or Bolt. I doubt I would use a glued tenion anymore (but that is just me). I am kinda wanting to try some experimental configurations lately and so for the moment I am going to be wrenching down them necks. Do you buy chance have some progress shots of the neck block in progress? Maybe you could show a couple pics and walk through the process (for the sake of tutorial-ish info). Maybe you could shoot some comments on using a work board for the Spanish style (basically for comparison purposes). I think it would be good info for someone trying to decide what method to use on their build. The more techniques and tools/jigs we can describe and show the better. Beautiful work as always mister! Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hitone: Very nice guitar! Honestly, all my electrics are set neck (well, almost all), but I wouldn't ever consider building anything other than a bolt-on neck (steelstring) acoustic. Lining things up is much simpler, the system is completely solid, and since a properly build acoustic is very likely (perhaps certain to) need neck adjustment at some point, bolt-ons are the smart thing to do. It's not so much about ease of building (you'll note that most cheap far-eastern imports have glued necks; glued necks are very fast and cheap in a production setting), but about an actual improvement in the design of the instrument in terms of servicability without any loss of sound quality. I also like the full-bolt systems (bolted down fingerboards with a headblock extension under the top for support) best. Honestly, some of the nicest guitars I've ever played and heard have bolt-on necks, and with builders like Kevin Ryan, whose instruments command tens of thousands of dollars, Dana Bourgeois (and many other small but excellent builders, such as Mike Doolin and his adjustable neck joint) using bolt-ons, that aspect is a complete no-brainer to me. Replacing a spanish heel neck would be easiest with a butt-jointed bolt-on neck, but building a new neck for a guitar with a located bridge can be a bit of a pain; gotta make sure the fingerboard location is DEAD ON correct, short of having to re-intonate/replace the bridge in future. There are many successful Spanish Heel isntruments out there, and it's a fairly elegant method of construction, but it's impractical for my personal style of building (domed workboards/sanding dishes, angle's easier to set after the fact). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 The in progress page is updated with a few new pictures, including a CAD that Rich was kind enough to help me with More to come soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Wow there are some awesome builds going on in this thread. Very cool! I finally have something to add to this threadand it is an oddball for sure. My client (my good friend Rick) gave me a drawing of a shape with soundhole locations and a wierd bridge shape. The construction details are all up to me as long as the aesthetics are followed so naturally I decided to have a little fun. The body is a slanted asymmetrical shape with 2 soundholes at opposite quadrants of the soundboard. I went with a double x-brace system of bracing with finger braces stiffening up the rest. The neck will be a glue in design much like my solidbodies simply because I wanted to try something different. There will be very little neck heel. All in all this one is a radical departure from my regular designs but I am pretty excited to get to play around a bit. The woods are figured Honduran mahogany for the back and sides and some old Sitka spruce for the top. The braces are stiff Sitka as well. The neck will be Honduran mahogany with a boi d'rose rosewood fingerboard. Here is the top: And here is the rest of the gallery: Acoustic #013 Braces are profiles but not yet carved. I will do that after I get the kerfing on the sides and before I glue the top and back on. This project is going to go quick so I will more pictures soon. ~David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 That is the weirdest, and coolest, acoustic I think I've ever seen. How do you think it will sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Thanks Godin, it helps to have a creative and exerimental client to work with. I am trying to make the guitar a balanced strumming instrument so I will carve the braces so the top remains a bit stiff. This way you can lean into it without it going into plate distrotion. The asymmetry stems from the concept of having the bass side more flexible and the treble side stiffer. I want to try and get as much headroom out fo the treble frequnecies as possible hence the number of finger braces on that side. This area taps out with a crisp 'ping' so I think I am on the right track with it. I learned bracing theory from a builder who did not focus on specific geometry but instead emphasised working with the concept of a soundboard that has different areas of frequency response and bracing and carving to acheive that. A good amount of the work is in the carving of the braces. I will try and even out the gradual changes in pitch by tapping aroudn on the top and carving where I need to. The back will be tuned to a lower frquency as this is where a lot of the bass is generated in my experience. I think of the top as a steel drum with overlapping areas of frequncy response. And I think of the back and a big sub-woofer and tune it accordingly. Since the body is going to be fairly thin the guitar shoudl have a lot fo projection as well. Ideally it will sound pretty darn good! When I complete the guitar I will record the it and we will hear how close I get to my goals. ~David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 David that is a seriously wonderfully wicked guitar you are making. I really would like to hear the result. I noticed that you use a similar type of neck block like I do. Do you use a bolt on neck joint? BTW the in progress page is updated with a few more CAD-drawings. One of them is actually a detail of my neck joint system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 I noticed that you use a similar type of neck block like I do. Do you use a bolt on neck joint? You know I had something designed almost like yours at first. My cleint changed his mind and wanted something more like an electric so I am going to glue the neck in in the same way as I do my solidbodies. That is why the neck block is so thick. It has to accommodate 1-1/4" of neck heel. I love what you are doing as well. The Kasha variation is very cool. I eventually want to try to build with the Kasha style, or perhaps mopre influenced by Steve Klein. Whatever I do I have decided to build more acoustics in the future. They are such wonderful instruments to build and play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Did some more work last night. I decided to add some carbon fiber supports from the end of the neck block to the sides. I have always wanted to see how this affects top vibration by transferring most of the string tension to the sides where it can easily be absorbed without the chances of twisting or warping. It is extremely stiff now. I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 David I had a look at the progress of that interesting guitar. I noticed that it had side dots on the DOWN side of the fret board. Is it a lefty guitar? Or do you put side dots on both sides of the fret board? Or did I miss something? Rob The guitar is coming along nice. Looks like it is going to be beautiful. Have you strung it up yet? If so, how does it sound? I have a few new pictures up on my web site. Gluing the braces right now and will update with new pictures as soon as I shoot them EDIT: Pictures of the braces being glued, the sound hole ring and the first pic of the bridge is up right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 The "in progress" page is updated and a new page on deflective tuning added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Well, I got side tracked for a bit (projects stopped actually). However I got back at it and have made some headway. I did slip up on my picture taking though (I will try to catch up and fill in some blanks later). So I have the sides bent for one of the acoustics. I set the neck block and tail block, I have scarfed, attached heal blocks routed for truss rods, and ruff shaped both necks. I marked and cut the back side of the rim for wedge and radius. I have joined two backs , and one Sitka top. I made a rosette (figured Claro/ red abalone (1/16" ring) and BWB fine line binding) and have inlayed it into the top as well as cut the soundhole. I have made, attached, and carved my first soundboard bracing. I have attached the kerfing to the rim front and back as well as sanded the radius in. The soundboard has been attached and trimmed for the first body. I am currecntly making and inlaying my backstrip and back bracing. After I close this box I will pick up on the second one with the composite top. I have updated my gallery with a few pics. I took a pic of my jig I use to route the bracing radius I also took a couple pics of how I trim bracing before attaching the soundboard- This is the first shell topped- Full size pics are all in the gallery-Build Gallery I will try to do better with my picture taking in the future Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Nice work Rich. Two questions: Do you notch the kerfed lining to accept the brace ends? And do you glue that entire surface of the heel block to the top/back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Nice work Rich. Two questions: Do you notch the kerfed lining to accept the brace ends? And do you glue that entire surface of the heel block to the top/back? Erik, No I do not notch the kerfed lining to accept the bracing (at least not with this style neck block). I place the top and mark the brace ends and cut them flush (it actually acts to make sure my alignment is spot on when I attach the top or back). The tail block gets radiused with the kerfing so the soundboard attaches to the kerfing and tailblock. Peace,Rich Edit: I should probably be more clear about the notching. I am not attaching the fretboard to the soundboard with a crossbrace in that area. I would notch and tie the brace to the sides if that was the case. I am trying a new neck style on this one. The neck is attached to the neck block and soundboard, and of course the fretboard is attached to the neck. The neck and fretboard set approx 1/2" above the soundboard angleing down at about 2 degrees. It is a new design for me. So I am not sure if it will have the effect I am looking for or if there are going to be any design issues with the neck. So far it is coming together well. Also- as far as the rest of the bracing I do not notch it into the kerfing. I prefer to taper it to a very thin end and stop it. I hope to allow the soundboard to move freely as possible around the rim to soundboard coupling (I sometime thin the soundboard a bit around the edges to promote that flexability). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 I made a rosette (figured Claro/ red abalone (1/16" ring) and BWB fine line binding) I really like that rosette. Excellent work, Rich! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 I made a rosette (figured Claro/ red abalone (1/16" ring) and BWB fine line binding) I really like that rosette. Excellent work, Rich! Mike Thanks Mr Mike I am really trying to tone this one down a notch. That last rosette was pretty over the top-click. I am going to go for simple clean details on this one. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Erik, No I do not notch the kerfed lining to accept the bracing (at least not with this style neck block). I place the top and mark the brace ends and cut them flush (it actually acts to make sure my alignment is spot on when I attach the top or back). Gotcha, thanks. I like that check on the alignment. Does that long heel block extension allow you to do away with the upper transverse braces? (I noticed their absence on your top). Also, I don't quite get what you mean by "the neck is glued to the heel block and soundboard" because it sounds like your fretboard extension is floating above the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 Erik, No I do not notch the kerfed lining to accept the bracing (at least not with this style neck block). I place the top and mark the brace ends and cut them flush (it actually acts to make sure my alignment is spot on when I attach the top or back). Gotcha, thanks. I like that check on the alignment. Does that long heel block extension allow you to do away with the upper transverse braces? (I noticed their absence on your top). Also, I don't quite get what you mean by "the neck is glued to the heel block and soundboard" because it sounds like your fretboard extension is floating above the top. If I was better at explaining this would make more sense. My neck design on this is raised. Imagine a complete neck (neck material below the fretboard all the way to the end of the fretboard- no overhang) that attaches to the box. The idea was really inspired by Charles Fox's Ergo (I was really knocked out by his design)-Click I have some additional light bracing that is fit up after the soundboard is attached (soundhole re-inforcement effectively), but basically what you see in the pic is about it. You probably also noticed the lack of backing for the bridge (this one gets a two piece bridge- strings do not go through the soundboard). This guitar is my design and all though I am generally pretty conservative about not straying too far from traditional methods/design. You won't find I follow the methods from a given book (Hiscock's, Williams, etc...), but a lot of things are very similar. Of course being my design it could be a GRANDE failure also . We will see when it gets strung up . Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 OK....now I see what you're talking about. That Charles Fox....how about $1000 for that compound cutaway, eh? But a custom neck taper comes for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 OK....now I see what you're talking about. That Charles Fox....how about $1000 for that compound cutaway, eh? But a custom neck taper comes for free. How about regular acoustics start at $8,000 and Ergo's start at $15,000... Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 Nice to see some new pictures. Looking good Rich. I have also updated my page today. The box is almost finished and the neck is roughed out. I have some nice pictures showing my Taylor-inspired neck attachment that I am really proud of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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