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Where Are The Newbie Guidelines?


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Folks,

As I get more familiar with the PG site and board I've been thinking that it might be a good thing to find a more proactive way to introduce new members.

i.e. To help them find ways to:

1] Know what kind of info is already available on the board / PG Site.

2] Be able to locate the info quickly and easily.

3] Know how and where to ask specific questions they couldn't find answered in steps 1 and 2.

i.e. To begin to interface with the established members in a way that works for both parties.

I'll try to put something together.

Here’s a start:

Welcome to Project Guitar, a web presence dedicated to everything about guitars.

To help you find the best way to use Project Guitar, read through the following.

Follow the links as they apply to you.

First, let’s determine how much you know about using an internet based community:

1] I know almost nothing. (I barely got here) {Link to tutorial on net / message board basics}

2] I’m proficient at using the net, but new to message boards. {Link to board tutorial}

3] I’m familiar with the net and message boards. (Then just read on.)

One of the best things about Project Guitar is that it contains a huge amount of information.

One of the worst things about Project Guitar is that it contains a huge amount of information.

To help keep Project Guitar a user friendly resource free of as many repeated and unneeded posts as possible:

Please try to follow these guidelines for using the message board.

When seeking advice on a general question, remember that it has probably been either covered in the tutorial section or in other posts.

Before asking the question:

1]

Visit these areas of the ProjectGuitar website.

Take some time to look around, chances are what you need is there somewhere.

http://www.projectguitar.com/menu/tutorial.htm (How to's on many specific guitar building topics.)

http://www.projectguitar.com/ref/build.htm (How I built my guitar(s) sites.)

http://www.projectguitar.com/menu/reference.htm (General and specific info.)

http://www.projectguitar.com/ref/supply.htm (Where to get wood, parts, you name it.)

2]

Do a keyword search with the search tool.

At the top of the main forum page you will find a field to enter the words to search for in the entire forum.

Don't just give up on the first try, experiment a little with different combinations of words.

At the bottom of each forum section is another search field that will search in that forum.

At the bottom of each topic you can search that topic.

Or follow this link to see other ways to search the site.

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=22211

3]

Then if you don’t find what you are looking for, post your question.

But, first follow the link below and read the rules for posting.

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=11235

Be specific with your question. i.e. Let us know you have done step 1 & 2.

Get back to me with other guidelines you think should be here.

Be Cool,

d ward

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As a newbie, I think that's a great idea. Fortunately, I think I've largely avoided many of the issues that surround newbies (please correct me if I'm wrong but not too harshly :D ). Before I posted for the first time, I dug through a great deal of the topic section I thought would be of greatest interest to me and in so doing gained a sense of the board's rules of etiquette. However, I'm going to admit that I'm probably a bit different than the typical forum participator. I enjoy spending hours and hours reading and researching topics - if you could only see my notes and saved links.

Anyway, I do think that's a great idea not only for the newbies but for the more experienced as well. The more experienced tend to forget the "stupid" questions they may have asked when they were learning the ropes.

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Robert,

Yes, that's another thing I was thinking about, on a board like this there are some people who make it a home and others who just want to vacation here for a weekend.

i.e. Some folks like the constant banter of guitar related conversations and others who just want to get the info they need and get out.

I spent several years in the 70's trying to learn about violin making and in those days people with expertise were very unwilling to share.

So I think it's great that you can come here and learn.

I do however get a kick out the the social dynamic of a virtual community.

Be Cool,

d ward

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I spent several years in the 70's trying to learn about violin making and in those days people with expertise were very unwilling to share.

So I think it's great that you can come here and learn.

I do however get a kick out the the social dynamic of a virtual community.

Be Cool,

d ward

I love Project Guitar. Its still a bit amazing to me that so many are willing to share their experiences and knowledge. I totally appreciate it. Thank you everyone.

I also really enjoy the social dynamic and hope to be a part of this community for a long time to come.

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The only time I ever see people jump on people about using the search feature is when that member asks the same question over and over again, making multiple topics all dealing with the same thing & not taking peoples advice. I have not seen any one go off on some one for asking a legit question. There is generally more to the story than you know. Considering you haven’t been around here for that long you may not be seeing the stuff prior to your arrival.

I would like to think that a search is pretty much common sense for people these days but I know its not. I do agree that it would be beneficial to have something at the very top of the forum indicating all the rules & common courtesies that should apply to the forum. Right now I think some of the info is out of place scattered through the forum.

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I agree that I'm not well versed in the history and development of the board.

And that maybe I exaggerated the incident just a bit, just to generate some interest.

But as you said, there may be visitors who are not use to using message boards in general and could benefit from some guidance.

Plus, every board has its own little quirks.

Thanks for your input,

d ward

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id say to be honest, rules arent a HUGE issue here since the board is pretty relaxed HOWEVER...

FORUM RULES PINNED

Those rules are pinned RIGHT in this section, so "newbies" can check if there not sure

In the same area (pinned section in Announcements and test area) are more threads relating to the rules and regs of this place :D

To be honest most people dont mind as long as the question hasnt been asked 1000 odd times, or they have posted pics at 1600x1200 and put 10 in the same post :D

~~ TS ~~

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PG,

Thanks and WOW, I have a pinned topic.

Just to make sure I'm being clear, I think the rules for posting are clear and available.

What I'm thinking is of finding a way to be more proactive in helping new users to find more effective ways to:

1] Know what kind of info is already available on the board / PG Site.

2] Be able to locate the info quickly and easily.

3] Know how and where to ask specific questions they couldn't find answered in steps 1 and 2.

i.e. To begin to interface with the established members in a way that works for both parties.

I'll try to keep updating the original post in this thread to develop something.

Please leave me any suggestions you have.

Thanks,

d ward

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Aaah i see what you mean now :D

Possibly, the powers at be could make it that "newbies" need to read the rules before posting. I dont know how

In answer to the few pointers in the thread above...

1) Probably the biggest "problem" as the board is so big now, finding info EASILY is beginning to be an issue... perhaps some pruning of the boards is in order Brian (or mods if you have the power)

2) I think this will be solved with "1"

3) This i think is pretty clear already, the forums are labelled up pretty good, and we dont very often have issues of threads being in the wrong forums

This is a great idea Wardd, keep up the good work :D

~~ TS ~~

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TS,

I thought you misunderstood me, or that I just wasn't being clear.

I'm a high school teacher so thinking this way has become instinct.

I think that one of the problems with any site like this is 21st century human nature.

People seem to developing more and more of a mind set where if at ain't really easy and it ain't instantaneous then I ain't gonna do it. (You can tell I spend my days with American teenagers.)

But, I think if new members just had a basic idea of how to use the vast amount of info that is available here they would put forth the effort to find it.

One things for sure, if they can't do that much, they're in for a world of hurt trying to tackle a guitar building project

Thanks for your input,

d ward

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As a newbie, I think that's a great idea. Fortunately, I think I've largely avoided many of the issues that surround newbies

Robert, I think I did to, I joined in March 2005 and may have had five post until the last couple of weeks when I started my project.

For other newbies, after you've decided what you want to do and get started if you'll start a thread about it in the in progress forum I've found you're more likely to get away with some of the questions that aggravate a lot of the guys who get tired of seeing the same question asked over and over. I'm pretty sure almost any thing you can think of has been gone over.

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Funny enough, this subject comes up over and over...

For those with a mind there are some threads I believe in the Advanced Section (for those who have donated, etc) like this...people keep leaving, why?...that may give a little history and discussion...

Things are a lot calmer than they have been, but there does soom to have been a few new people join lately...to all you "newbies" (i hate that word)...welcome... :D

Now, instead of rules, lets explain the reasoning and hope reason will prevail...

First, let me say the search function isn't terrifically obvious, but it is there...as you would expect it to, this has also been discussed, but I'm not sure if it would be used anyway...even if it were bright red and the onlything on the screen.

Partly it is because people don't at first realize that PG is not like a lot of sites that are run more like an open chat room, limited rules, moderation, and full of I'll informed comment and ridicule...ohhh man that sucks!!!...for instance.

What bugs me, is that PG gets bigger, it is harder to search out the good stuff. Once you have been around and searched a bit, followed links and seen what others are looking at (last click or members name in the active user box on the main screen), you will discover gems.

So why is it getting harder, cause there are so many threads by "newbies" on the same topic...you look at them because you too want to know, and what do you get...use the search button....hmmm. So now my search is corrupted by both the newbie's repeat question and the non-search retaliation abuse....doh!

So, each to there own as to how to address it...I can see a few points of view.

Education...abuse is not a very good learning tool if you just came into the place

Reasoning...if people really realized the effects on everyone of all these useless threads on the long term integrety would they have posted them...more importantly, would they warrant so many replys making them worth future investigation?

Frustration...I've seen the same question asked in two threads on the same page...or separate threads on essentially the same question...venting is understandable!!

Repeatition...going through it all again!!

Ok here's an example that I take and I am quite proud of. It is a subject I monitor closely, and one that there were a few within the same week (though the "newbie" is not really going to know that are they)...

fernandes sustainer question

Now this was his first post of only two...must have found what he wanted in my reply because this was the second...

Thanks for the reply, and i have to say it was one of the best replies i have ever got from any post on any forum, loads of info.

Thank you again...

Ok...well that's heart warming...and took a little work. You did notice i said welcome, explained the search function, and since i had done the search and know the info on here, selected some pertainent threads...

However...soon another question comes in again...Sustainer...in a tele Newbie, says he did a search, couldn't find what he wanted. I welcome, point out that there were two pages of stuff, paste in the quote from above and add a little more to his question... Then again....similar question (this time a "not-so-newbie")...Hmmm...another sustainer install question...no matter, link again and no welcome cause he's no "newbie".

Now if anyone should be frustrated it should be me as I'm doing the research to answer the question...but as I have an interest and I have already answered it, a little cut and paste and I have achieved a number of things...

1...I have contributed to an answer in each case by the use of cut and paste and linking...

2...I have subtly pointed out the search function and that it does work...

3...I have only posted because I know I can, cause I already have...

4...I have ensured the PG informations integrety by linking like posts together (find one and you have found them all!)

5...I feel warm and fuzzy and secured myself a place as "sustainer expert" with the minimum of effort!

So that's all good...What I haven't done is worsened the search litter by venting my frustration to no good effect so that when other's are looking for something all they get is a string of abuse. I have also, not joined in to reinforce the understandable frustration of one member, by taking it on myself...I can understand frustration and often feel abusive lately (i got reasons!!!), so I understand frustration and can sypathise, but venting is for the frustrated ones, not for the cheer squad.

Anyway, all that said...and it really has been said before...this place really is remarkable for it's civility. These things are rare. PG does have personality, and this kind of thing is simply a part of it. Unlike some forums, it is moderated, the moderators do a good job, and there are consequences. Very well known members (even moderators themselves) have been given a "vacation"...this will become apparent after a while.

So, I hope people do feel welcome, and that "newbies" are given a chance to fit in and that they in turn, make an effort to fit in, and very soon, you will find your own special place in a special little community.

So welcome "newbies" and keep up the good work, and never loose your personality...even if it "sucks"... B)

pete :D

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And of course the one thing not mentioned yet...

We all started off as "Newbies" lol :D

I second PSW's mass welcome to all the "Newbies"

PSW is right, this place is growing and FAST. Info, once easily found is now slowly becoming lost but after a while of trawling the boards, you begin to see how this place works and what needs to be done to dig out those "jems"

I think the best advice for a "Newbies" is...

ENJOY BUILDING :D

~~ TS ~~

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And of course the one thing not mentioned yet...

We all started off as "Newbies" lol :D

I second PSW's mass welcome to all the "Newbies"

PSW is right, this place is growing and FAST. Info, once easily found is now slowly becoming lost but after a while of trawling the boards, you begin to see how this place works and what needs to be done to dig out those "jems"

I think the best advice for a "Newbies" is...

ENJOY BUILDING :D

~~ TS ~~

I appreciate the welcome, gents.

The size of the site is certainly a challenge and a more obvious search feature would certainly be helpful. However, there are tools out there that can help mitigate this as wardd pointed out in a recently posted thread about using google.com to search within the Project Guitar Forum. (I also contributed a bit on the subject as well).

Since I still have my newb perspective I thought I'd throw in my two cents as to how best to get new recruits up to speed. First, I think that the search function needs to be more obvious. That much seems clear. If you're not familiar with the forum set up, its not surprising that some miss it. Second, and more importantly, those of us who want to see Project Guitar continue to be successful should take a moment to encourage newcomers with tips about the site where possible. I've seen a few people join recently and I've tried to do a few things. I welcome them. I point out the search feature. For the last couple, I've pointed out the thread on leveraging the power of Google to search the forum. Finally, I've pointed out the etiquette of searching before asking. It took me a minute or two to compose the email. Maybe the answer is a standard welcome email that is sent to a newcomers although I think that the personal touch is preferable. Nothing gets deleted faster than an automated email especially when it reads "RULES AND REGULATIONS". However, a post from one of the moderators or a senior forum member would go a long way toward orienting the unintiated.

My two inflation devalued cents... B)

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True...however...

If a question is asked and the reply is ONLY "use the search function you Newb!!!!" that question will hang around and come up on every search when people are using a search to find things...

I agree...however...not if there is not something to contribute to the actual question in the way of an answer. (In your answer to the sustainer question recently you did point towards the sustainer thread, so that was good...because...)

Posting onto an existing thread, especially something like the Sustainer Thread has a lot of advantages.

Firstly...A sustainer question on the sustainer thread helps with continuity a little...though it is big...

Secondly...A well visited thread is likely to have quite a bit of traffic to it from interested knowledgable people.

Thirdly...those people are likely to have email notification of posts

Fourthly...as i get email notification of the sustainer thread and live 10 hours ahead of the USA, I am likely to have answered the question before it even is asked...and

Fifthly...there is no fifthly, i just wanted to use that word!

I think the thing is to give a little latitude at first. We seem to have had quite a few new people which is great...we were all new at some point, as was said. We do not want to get into a slam culture, especially over the search function. Let's go build some guitars...errr...or something... pete

Oh...here's something that does bugs me...don't re-quote in the next post to reply...and if you do for clarity, edit out anything that isn't relevant to the reply. I have seen whole tutorials requoted just to answer..."great stuff"...really a waste of space and adds to the download time if it's full of pictures...grrrr (no offence R.I.)

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Oh...here's something that does bugs me...don't re-quote in the next post to reply...and if you do for clarity, edit out anything that isn't relevant to the reply. I have seen whole tutorials requoted just to answer..."great stuff"...really a waste of space and adds to the download time if it's full of pictures...grrrr (no offence R.I.)

None taken. :D I think I've largely avoided the worst of those offenses. However, I tend to re-quote at least a portion because I don't think its necessarily clear that you are responding to someone even if you're response appears directly below the post in question. Since many posts occur asynchronously, I don't assume that someone would know right away what I was referencing.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

Hi everyone.

This looks like a very informative site. As a beginner, (about 2 years) at the art of building guitars, Im gonna be hangin here and learnin here. I even see a couple firmilar faces. HEY DINO! I have lots of newbie rules and the like, but Im sure I'll get the hang of it in know time.

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  • 3 months later...

I think the reason people don't read the rules as often as they should, is because when a new person first comes here, they're more interested in...well... the interesting stuff, like the in progress section or the solid body guitar section or electronics section, so they may not end up looking at the rules and then they automatically start asking questions. I think there should be a pinned thread in all of the main sections that has a link to the rules, and in CAPITALS so it stands out, and people can see it. It should say something like "NEW MEMBERS CLICK HERE" it'd definitely catch MY eye if I was new. :D

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  • 5 months later...

i am going to repeat something that as far as i know is still a guidline or a loosely enforced rule around here that has not been mentioned since kevan has been doing his thing...it used to be posted,but i think the topic was not pinned at the time.

the "hax0r" "no0b" "u" "plx" type of stuff is not well tolerated here.i and many others refuse to respond to a question asked in this type of chatspeak or whatever you want to call it.

proper sentence structure is appreciated.nobody cares about punctuation,a few mis-typed words,or the ocassional thing here and there.but entire posts typed in this fashion are annoying,hard to understand,and just plain gauche

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the "hax0r" "no0b" "u" "plx" type of stuff is not well tolerated here.i and many others refuse to respond to a question asked in this type of chatspeak or whatever you want to call it.

proper sentence structure is appreciated.nobody cares about punctuation,a few mis-typed words,or the ocassional thing here and there.but entire posts typed in this fashion are annoying,hard to understand,and just plain gauche

Personally, I find your hyphenated usage of the English diction to be completely appalling, especially coming from such a well read young man such a' yo'seff be.

:DB):D

Here, let me dress it up for you.

The "hax0r" "no0b" "u" "plx" type of slang grammer is not tolerated here. Many members here (including myself) will refuse to respond to a question asked in this type of internet shorthand.

Proper sentence structure is appreciated. No one cares about punctuation, a few mis-typed words, or the ocassional grammatical error here and there. Entire posts typed in this fashion are annoying, hard to understand, and just plain gauche.

Gauche, inDEED! :D

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