Where Are The Newbie Guidelines?

[westhemann]

to be clear,i am not suggesting a grammar and punctuation seminar...only that proper words are attempted and an effort made.

[Drak]

You ever see one of those guys who types like that build a super fine world-class guitar?

If they can't make the effort to type clearly and punctuate properly, I doubt they have the effort needed to build a fine guitar either, so what's the bother in the end...

Success leaves clues.

I can't think of a single pro builder or excellent repair man who posts on the internet that types like that.

Every single one I know of posts extremely clearly and legibly.

Do you think that's some sort of Cosmic Coincidence?

Point, Drak. :D

[aidlook]

You ever see one of those guys who types like that build a super fine world-class guitar?

If they can't make the effort to type clearly and punctuate properly, I doubt they have the effort needed to build a fine guitar either, so what's the bother in the end...

Success leaves clues.

I can't think of a single pro builder or excellent repair man who posts on the internet that types like that.

Every single one I know of posts extremely clearly and legibly.

Do you think that's some sort of Cosmic Coincidence?

Point, Drak. :D

Actually, I think it might be more of an age-issue. You don't generally see many teenagers building world-class guitars either.

The thing is that these people also communicate in other environments on the internet (on-line games, other forums, instant messaging, chats etc)

where this type of grammar makes them look "cool" (in the eyes of other nerds).

It's not about making an effort, it's about going from one "culture", where this is the standard, to another one where it makes you look like an idiot.

One thing that bugs me though is that people with English as their native language often have seriously crappy grammar, worse than many people who

has English as their second or third language.

[Southpa]

25 years ago we might have assumed that a person who could operate a computer was a genius. Now look what its turned into, quite a monster IMO where every slack-jawed cretin in this semi-literate world can have his / her say, or at the very least... make the attempt. But some people don't try and don't care about not trying. Every time I post something I review what I just said before I send it off to a place where EVERYBODY (who can read) can see whats on my mind. AND, they can look back in time and see what I said years ago! Sorta scary when you think of it. But the edit button is there for a reason. If you want to leave your posts in a state where everyone will think you are verbally (or mentally) challenged then I don't think a lot of people would want to waste their time spoon feeding info to you in little bits and pieces over a long period of time. You can do that yourself. HEY !!! ANOTHER LITTLE BUTTON! Its called SEARCH!

This may sound funny and I know its been said before. But most every ordinary aspect of building a guitar has been mentioned, talked about, discussed etc. many times over in this forum. There, I said it AGAIN. Its all here, right at your fingertips.

Those reading posts should also be perceptive enough to realize that the poster does not have the greatest command of the english language. Don't think a person is stupid just because he is from another country.

And as far as relating proficient use of grammar with quality of work. I dunno, I don't think the REAL pros are wasting their time babbling on an internet forum. They might read a bit but they are out there building their guitars.

[Drak]

I hang out (lurk mostly these days to be honest) on a forum where various professionals from the boutique amplifier world, custom luthier world, effects manufacturing world, and even some pro studio gear people all hang out together and post. There's a bunch of regulars and noobs too, it's not some high society elitist club by any stretch.

Every single solitary one of the professional people there has clear and distinct typing skills, bar none.

You do the math.

To say it's a clash of cultures and new (younger) people are just trying to look cool is like giving your blessings to the Ebonics theory, which I also believe is total crap.

If you want to be a professional, you need to communicate clearly, not in slang-talk, whether it be computer slang or otherwise, I do not buy that argument for one second, it's absolute laziness and a setup for failure later in life, pure and simple.

[aidlook]

I hang out (lurk mostly these days to be honest) on a forum where various professionals from the boutique amplifier world, custom luthier world, effects manufacturing world, and even some pro studio gear people all hang out together and post. There's a bunch of regulars and noobs too, it's not some high society elitist club by any stretch.

Every single solitary one of the professional people there has clear and distinct typing skills, bar none.

You do the math.

To say it's a clash of cultures and new (younger) people are just trying to look cool is like giving your blessings to the Ebonics theory, which I also believe is total crap.

If you want to be a professional, you need to communicate clearly, not in slang-talk, whether it be computer slang or otherwise, I do not buy that argument for one second, it's absolute laziness and a setup for failure later in life, pure and simple.

I still don't think it's about laziness...

All those proffesionals you're talking about are most likely older than the group we're discussing here.

And I don't think that many of the newbies are here to be proffesional as possible from the start, I think they just thought it would be cool to build a guitar and found this forum. After always typing one way in another web-based environment they just keep doing what seemed right there.

Is it really so hard to imagine this scenario?

I really don't think that this is based on laziness, it would take time to come up with all these stupid acronyms.

I fully agree with you that you don't seem proffesional if you're slangtalking constatly, but that is not just the goal for these people...

[westhemann]

I fully agree with you that you don't seem proffesional if you're slangtalking constatly, but that is not just the goal for these people

goal or not,if your goal is too communicate on this forum,you must speak clearly.the truth is,in the case of "internet shorthand",as Drak so eloquently calls it,the typist is passing off the extra time typing to the reader.

in other words,when you type all of that lingo,it takes the reader much more time to understand what in the world you are going on about.

[aidlook]

I fully agree with you that you don't seem proffesional if you're slangtalking constatly, but that is not just the goal for these people

goal or not,if your goal is too communicate on this forum,you must speak clearly.the truth is,in the case of "internet shorthand",as Drak so eloquently calls it,the typist is passing off the extra time typing to the reader.

in other words,when you type all of that lingo,it takes the reader much more time to understand what in the world you are going on about.

I still agree with you guys, I think it's stupid and makes you come off as an idiot. It's just that I don't think the explanation to using slang is laziness.

[Drak]

OK, then can we refer to it as a 'current day accepted social hurdle' that most young internet users need to overcome and surmount to be successful in life?

See, the way I see it is this: If you can type correctly but simply choose not to for shorthand's sake, that's fine and dandy, as long as you can switch back to 100% grammatically correct whenever you want to.

But I believe (and I think most older people do also) that most of the 'internet shorthand' I see is from people who truly are close to illiterate and use the 'internet shorthand' thing as a shield, or crutch, because they truly cannot spell or punctuate very well at all, what you're seeing is the 'real' them, they're not using shorthand, that's really how they communicate, and if everyone tells them that's it's OK and acceptable and they cannot even spell, what then, is that?

:D

[Maiden69]

But I believe (and I think most older people do also) that most of the 'internet shorthand' I see is from people who truly are close to illiterate and use the 'internet shorthand' thing as a shield, or crutch, because they truly cannot spell or punctuate very well at all, what you're seeing is the 'real' them, they're not using shorthand, that's really how they communicate, and if everyone tells them that's it's OK and acceptable and they cannot even spell, what then, is that?

:D

Hey, stop talking about Wes here!!! well, jokes aside it is true! The only time i use shorthand is when I text in my cell because I can say more in one messege! But only with people that I know will understand what I'm saying!!!

[westhemann]

Hey, stop talking about Wes here!!!

whut yu meen???

you guys are going to eat your words when i complete my "slambang" novella.

[Mattia]

Hehehehe.....I'm totally with Drak on this one. On a very, very rare occasion I use abbreviations/txtspk in text (SMS) messages, but only if I really, really need to actually write that much. Generally, if the message is getting that long, I should be making a phone call or writing an email.

There's zero excuse for not at least attempting to use full sentences and proper grammar on a web forum. None whatsoever. Typing things out in full doesn't take significantly more time.

Now, typos, unintentional bad grammer caused by, erm, people being too lazy to proofread before hitting 'add reply', that's a totally different story....