johnsilver Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 A couple of months ago, I completed an SG style guitar for my middle son. SG topic The SG was my third guitar to start but the second to finish. The second one I started was an LP style for my oldest son. Being a newb, I had no idea how far over my head I was for my knowledge and skill level. Anyway, I got into trouble at multiple places e.g. technique, sequencing, etc. Added is that I don't know what a LP is supposed to look and feel like. I mean, I have a general idea and a detailed plan from StewMac, but I have only held a LP a couple of times and I'm not a player. So, I put it away and after a while I started and completed the SG. It came out ok. With that, I got back to the LP. However, as per this post's description, it remains to be seen if it will be a guitar or attractive firewood. The objective is a guitar in the style of a LP Supreme - maple top and back over a mahogany center, mahogany set neck, ebony fretboard, gold MOP split block inlay, custom gold MOP inlay on the head, 7 layer binding on the top, 5 layer on the back, 3 layer mitered binding on the head and single ply on the neck. Oh, the aspirations of ignorance..... Anyway, here are pics of the target guitar from Gibson and my status as of yesterday. I'm trying to use thumbnails but I'm not sure I'm doing it correctly. Gibson LP Supreme Amber My version's progress July 15 As you can see, I've made progress but there are many problems and obstacles to overcome. I'll address those as this post progresses. Some I've tackled but some remain, so I may need some advice as I go. Anyway, it all started with a trip to my local wood supplier. They had some really nice straight-grained mahogany for bodies and necks. I found a plank of 6/4 curly maple and got them to resaw it for me. I got two planks of 9/16" bookmatched from that - enough for the top and back. Pics below. mahogany for necks and bodies body blank curly maple plank maple bookmatched Well, enough for a start. I'm off to the garage to carve the neck. More later. Thanks for looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted July 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 I just carved the neck. Came out ok. More on that later. This was my first attempt at a carved top guitar. There are now some good tutorials and examples on many ways to accomplish this with some precision and safety. I had no idea, and not the proper tools. I used everything I could find - spokeshave, chisels, gouges, files, angle grinder, sandpaper, spoons, my teeth, whatever. Ultimately, it came out ok, but I wouldn't recommend this approach to anyone, anytime, much less summer time in an unairconditioned garage in Houston. One problem is that I overcarved / sanded the top maple at the waist through to the mahogany. You can see it in the pics. Well, there goes my amber finish plan. Current plan is a burst of some sort using amber in the center and working out to the edges dark enough to hide the sand through. Warning, some of these pics depict graphic violence to innocent wood. laminated body cut to rough shape body sanded to shape carving in progress - call for help body eventually not too bad but with sand throughs obvious maple back w/ spalted area near the heel another view of body carve - not too bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhiteandthemaple Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Nice project. One question - how thick at the middle? (i.e. how thick at its thickest point?) I like your logo. Nice touch and the maple back looks awesome too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 apart from the bit where you went through to the mahogany, that carve looks damn nice to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambo Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Shame about the sandthrough. Might get away with a burst finish there. otherwise, solid! nay mind Good all round though S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Shame about the sandthrough. Might get away with a burst finish there. otherwise, solid! nay mind Good all round though S +1 on the burst. Try a dark one like a tobacco or dark honey burst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 +1 to the honey burst. -10 to the tobacco... I've never been a fan of that kinda coloring on Ps. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambo Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Do a black burst with gold hardware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted July 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 The body is approx 2 7/16" in the middle and just under 2" at the edge. These are the dimensions on the 59 LP plan I bought from StewMac. Its a beast, especially since I didn't chamber it. The 59 wasn't chambered, at least the plan didn't show it, and I didn't know anything about chambering when I made the body. At least my son has been working out for the past couple of years and has a job with medical insurance. Thanks for the ideas on the burst. I was hoping to get some. I have the StewMac (darn them) finishing book with some Gibson burst recipes so I was going to test some of those out on scrap maple. I need a burst that's dark enough on the edges to cover the sand through. I was actually thinking of a tobacco burst (sorry Chris) but no definite plans yet. Does everyone think a honey burst is dark enough? I didnt' think so. Despite the screwups, I have some things going for me. I have to burst the back so I can further develop my technique. Also, I can always go black burst (more on that in a minute), or solid top if all else fails. Anyone ever heard of a gold top and bottom? Since this is styled on a Supreme, it has gold hardware. Also, gold MOP. Also, gold frets. Also, gold pup covers. I'm already afraid this will look like a guitar version of MTV's Pimp My Ride, so I'm not sure about the black burst. Who knows, maybe my son will join a funk band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 (edited) You could also do a Cinnamon Burst, a combo of the tobacco black and the cherry red a shade darker, or a Silver Burst with a metallic silver center and black edges. If you shade it right, I bet you could do a Honey Burst or a Latte Cream Burst. The brown on the edges could be dark enough to hide the sand-through. Edited July 17, 2006 by crafty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted July 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 OK, I put miles of binding on this guitar. Here is the evidence. I carved the top before cutting the top binding channel. Take my word, don't do it that way. I had to use the little StewMac binding cutter thingy. If using a regular Dremel router base is like driving a Hummer on flat ground, this thing is like riding a unicycle down a mountain bike trail. Its scary, but ultimately worked. Best to cut the channels before carving. It did however let me cut the channel in the cutaway so that the binding follows the curve. Can't do that if cutting the binding before carving. By the way, I'm listening to my new Jimmy Vaughan CD right now. Its killer. binding cutter for the carved top I used yet another StewMac milk-me-for-all-I'm-worth thingy and laminated the celluloid nitrate binding. 7 layer on the top, 5 layer on the bottom and 3 layers for the head. Thank goodness Gibson only puts a single layer on the fretboard. The binding laminate jig actually worked a treat. Just brush acetone on the binding and run it through. Now, bending 7 layer binding around a cutaway horn is a trick. I used a small hair dryer and softened the binding first, then slowly wrapped it around and taped it in place to stay overnight. Then I glued it in the next day after some of the tension was mitigated. laminate jig Here is the binding. 7 layer top binding 5 layer back binding binding in the cutaway 3 layer headstock binding The headstock binding presents a different problem because it needs to be mitered. I drew out a plan of my headstock shape and then measured the angles. The binding needs to be cut at half of the angle in order for the miter to fit. I made a jig out of a piece of MDF by marking out and cutting the half-angles in the MDF. Then I can clamp it to a solid surface leaving gaps the width of the binding. Once everything is ready, I run the binding through the gaps and cut it off with a small Exacto hobby saw flush against the MDF. It cuts cleanly. It take a little setup, but the results are pretty reliable and repeatable. I used the same jig on my SG since the headstock was the same. Problem is that third son wants a different headstock design. drawing of headstock with angles measured and bifurcated binding angle cutting jig OK. Jimmy Vaughan is finished. Now listening to Hound Dog Taylor. Puts my "project" in perspective. He made a living 30 years ago playing cheap cheap Japanese guitars through Sears Roebuck amps. More later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Maybe you could try something pretty weird... Something like Gibson's Gecko color? Worst case scenario: black burst on black dye... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 Anyone ever heard of a gold top and bottom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Worst case scenario: black burst on black dye... Another vote for Pimp My Ride. I can live with that..... if I have to... Mike, thanks about the binding. Also, I found out when I made the SG that I had sons I didn't know about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 OK, I did a lot of inlay on this so far. I did a custom inlay on the headstock. Nothing special, basically just a couple of letters - an A and a G. I cut them out of a single piece of gold MOP. preparing to cut the gold MOP using a layout glued on the pearl partial cutout - not the smoothest but can be cleaned up later with small files letters cut out letters inlaid into the ebony headplate Then I needed to inlay the split block markers into the ebony fretboard. 25 pieces in total to be inlaid. Not bad for the masters but a little daunting for a relative beginner. I ordered the blocks precut from Andy Depaule. They were very nice and 0.060" thick. The naturally occurring gold color only goes about halfway though. Since I was inlaying this into a preradiused fretboard from LMI, I needed to be careful to get them in close because excessive sanding would go through the gold color. I also bought the gold MOP blanks from Andy. Good stuff. Here is the process - roughly. precut inlay and ebony fretboard inlay positions marked out with tape as per LP tutorial by Setch (Cheers!) MOP inlaid and being sanded flush in my fretboard sanding jig finished gold MOP inlay - not too bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted July 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 I made the neck from 3 pieces of flatsawn mahogany laminated to form a blank. My local supplier doesn't have any quartersawn mahogany, so I turned the blank on its side, that is, the edges of the three pieces became the face of the blank. It made a blank about 3 1/2" square by about 36" long. I squared up the blank using an inexpensive Stanley hand plane and ensured it was square using a small machinist's square. I marked out the top and side profiles on the blank using my poster board templates drawn up from the plan I have. I was able to mark out two full size necks facing opposite directions and on opposite faces of the blank. The size of the blank allowed me to have angled headstocks, so no scarf joint was necessary. I used my small $99 Delta 9" tabletop bandsaw to cut the neck blanks. Its underpowered for that of course but I went slowly and it came out ok. After trimming the two pieces, I had two rough necks. I used my 6" stationary belt sander to flatten the headstock face and establish a clean edge where the nut will go. From that reference, I re-marked the neck template. Once done, I routed out the truss rod channel, glued ears on the head (cut from the same mahogany blanks), cut the neck to rough profile on the bandsaw, marked and cut the tenon, glued on an ebony headplate, etc, etc. Its a good thing I cut out two necks because I ruined the first one. I was able to "discard" it in a peaceful and non-violent manner and proceed with work using the second neck. I paid about $35 for the mahogany to make the blank, so each rough neck cost half that. Plus I got the added advantage of using the wedge I cut off of the headstock angle as a nice mahogany garage door stop. Only ones on my street. squaring up the mahogany neck blank using a hand plane marking out the necks using templates very rough neck cutouts after the first cut with the bandsaw two rough necks after trimming and cutting the headstock angle unbound fretboard sitting on the neck More later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 This project is looking sweet! I love how clean your work area is. That is deffinitly a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 (edited) Really want to see this once completed. Edited July 18, 2006 by Nitefly SA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 I dont really think it fits in with the overall aesthetic of the guitar personally, but those sand-throughs look so much like the tips of flames to me that I had to give it a try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted July 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Thanks guys. Godin, the work area is a corner of my garage that I park two cars in every night. I can't spread out too much. Its ugly under the surface. Maybe when I get more space, I can spread out and make some guitars that look as nice as yours. Nitefly, I want to see it completed too. Its been around a long time and my son is starting to get a little old. I may have to ditch this project and start making small guitars for grandchildren if I don't hurry up. Ben, sweeeeet!. Another option. The flametop LP - incorporating the sandthroughs as a "design element". I need some original thinking about now. Of course, I may need a few pints of Theakston's Old Peculiar just to make sure I get the flames positioned right. I'm listening to a Jimmy Rogers compilation right now. Just right..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matttheguy Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Other than those sandthroughs, which I'm sure you'll remedy with your finish, that guitar is absoloutely beautiful! I just hope when I get to that stage, mine is looking that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 I dont really think it fits in with the overall aesthetic of the guitar personally, but those sand-throughs look so much like the tips of flames to me that I had to give it a try Yanno, Fender did something like that with a Tele ... http://www.acfixer.com/Pics/Guitars/FlameTele1b.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted July 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Sweet. I'm going to have to go back and refinish my first guitar - the Tele. Wait, I'm already refinishing it. I'll finish the refinish before I refinish it again. With Marksounds help, I may have sorted out posting the thumbnails. Thanks. After blocking out the neck, I had to decide my next sequence. I could fret the fretboard, then glue it on, then carve it, etc, etc through all the permutations. I decided to glue the fretboard on the neck, then fret, then carve the neck. Part of the reason was that I was pressing the frets this time, and my trials indicated I was more comfortable fretting an uncarved neck. Could have gone either way. I was using my new arbor press from Grizzly and StewMac's press tool. I took the arbor ram to a local machine shop and they drilled a hole length wise in the ram, then drilled and tapped a set screw in the side so I could lock in the press tool. Cost $20 and they did a good job. Even gave me an allen wrench. I was using gold fretwire from LMI. I found sources of gold fretwire at LMI and Warmoth and decided to use LMI. Its a medium fretwire. The wire came loosely rolled so I didn't have to radius it too much to fit my 12" radius board. Here is the new arbor press and some "action" photos. The frets are pressed in and trimmed. I used a file freehand to flush them up to the binding and angle them back a bit, but no more than that at this point re leveling and dressing. Guess I'll do that later. I really enjoyed pressing the frets in. I hammered in the frets on my previous two guitars and I enjoyed the tactile feel of that but never felt fully in control. The arbor press was also tactile in that you could feel the frets pressing into and seating on the board. I liked it and felt more in control. I'm going to have to find something else to press. Maybe I'll crack pecans for some pecan pie. Sorry boys. Its getting close to my bedtime and I'm slowing down, so I'm listening to the latest Jewel CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtjdx Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Extremely clean so far. Nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matttheguy Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Thinking of that flame... The LP GT, I believe, has a flame graphic painted on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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