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8 String Guitar For Connor Brown Of Putrefy


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Hey bud the guitar looks great, build it like you want. We all get better with each one we build. Some of the guys here can't build to save their lives and would rather run off their mouths than put in the labor and time to learn, and then there are the ones that can build and are just arrogant A-holes. Im guessing they forgot what its like to make a mistake or they can hide the mistakes a little better. But not everyone here is like that, there is a lot of knowlege here. I can tell by your build that your intellegent enough to know where your mistakes are and dont need them pointed out. So chin up and good job man!

-Scott

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I've got a lot to practice on routing for inlays. Much harder and dedicated work than people make out. Looks and sounds simple in practice, but hell - *one* mistake can undo every little thing you've aimed for. I think TG put a lot of work into the fretboard and the results prove themselves. I've seen bigger borders on commercial instruments!

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I read through this thread and was kinda confused. I can say I think your guitar is looking good(at a one of my early builds(2-5)/hobbiest kinda level)- and I say that only as a point of reference. I could say that it is not looking tight(at an very experienced hobbiest level, at that point lines and tolerances especially on basic details get pretty darn high- and that comes from methods, jigs, and experience). I could say that it is looking blemish for a production guitar(tooling affords better tolerance). I could say it would be sloppy for a pro-luthier who values quality and the reputation of his/her work.

I am not sure what to make of the fact you are selling this to someone. If this is a friend, and it is not really a straight luthier/client business arrangement. There may be understandings. If that is a real client and you have a straight up commission for a professional musician. I would hope you would step up the quality of your work. All this confusion as to your experience, and how to critique the work is based on the way the build has been described as a client build for Connor Brown of Putrefy.

So I wanna say the project is looking good dude :D . I just can't honestly say that if this is a pro build for a client. Maybe you could clarify what the build is all about.

P.S. If that was Perry's work I would tell him it looks like crap. Start over.(FWIW)

Peace,Rich

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Rich, if it WAS myt work, i would have progressed this far.

Thirsty, you are walking around like a pro, telling people your a pro, and taking on commissions, but that guitar features numerous flaws, as far as i can see. You might call them features, but ive NEVER seen "features" like that from a pro luthier.

But, as long as your client (who you insinuated isnt paying for it, although this has no bearing whatsoever) is happy, im sure you'll find its fine.

You wanna walk with the big boys, be prepared to take critisicm on your work. I can assure you that a few "hobby builders" having a few words to say about your workmanship, is nothing compared to the thoughts of those who see and DONT say anything...

You can take it on board, or attack. One works, one doesnt.

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TG- This explains it perfectly-

let me explain it to you all:

I am building a guitar for a friend,

He is involved every step of the way

Great work! I am trying to come up with a logo for my headstocks. I want to see if I can have a handful of them made for me. I am going to build up a template so that I can reproduce the inlay routes efficiently and cleanly. It is one thing I have been dwelling on for a while but should probably get it done.

I am sorry if my post harsh. I don't mean to put anyone down with what I said. I was just trying to be clear that depending on the situation my praise could be harmful. I used Perry as an example because his work needs to be held to a very high standard or it would hurt him(rep. is his living). I try to hold my personal standards very high, but I am still learning. 95% slick is doing pretty darn good for me, 95% for Perry would suck.

I like the look of the neck. I can't wait to see how the body looks cleared. Raw stain in pictures never does the final product justice. Keep up the good work!

Peace,Rich

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i had some very nice things to say and i had some suggestions for future builds...but my GOOTTDAMMNN COMPUTER has the most clueless keyboard in the world and i hit the wrong button and lost about 1000 words.

i will try to recap much more briefly.

the natural wood binding is a nice look,i do it myself..but you should have slotted the board before binding,and then not slotted the binding,because binding is not entirely about aesthetics...it is about keeping moisture out of the fret ends

you should have finished all of the shaping and finish sanding before staining..now you will probably damage the stain doing the rest of the work and you will have to start over.

i LOVE the inlay design..i do notlove the gaps...it would kill me if that was my instrument ,because i would stare at the gaps all day long.just because the "customer" is okay with it does not mean you should be.

remember these are suggestions for future work,not criticism really

i love the overall guitar...alot of the ideas you are using really impress me and i look forward to seeing it after you finish because i think you will take care of alot of the flaws that people are pointing out.after all,project guitar is here to help you be better,not to feed you "great work" lines all day.i get mondo criticism of my own work as well..sometimes just from illusions created by camera angles

perry(rhoads56) is critical because his business is making custom instruments,and the worst thing for a custom builder is for potential clients to be scared off from handmade instruments because they see a less than perfect one.

there are ALOT of a-holes out there claiming to be custom builders and putting out poor work at exhorbitant prices..basically ripping people off..and that is bad news for custom builderswho do good work.bad custom builders are bad for perry's business..bottom line.

think of it like this.you meet the perfect woman,and you want to get close to her and be a part of her life...yet you CAN'T get close to her because she and all her friends have been played so many times that she can't trust you...because you are a man...like the others.

okay..the analogy is very cheesy,sappy,whatever..but maybe it makes you think.because the same thing happens with potential clients.they get gunshy and buy ibanez instead.

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because binding is not entirely about aesthetics...it is about keeping moisture out of the fret ends

Not to derail the thread, but I'm not sure I entirely understand this statement Wes. While I agree that binding certainly isn't 100% aesthetic, I don't understand how moisture and the fret ends are related.

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you want to seal the fret ends because over time moisture can cause the frets to lift.it's what i was always told.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that that statement may have some velidity, but it's most likely a moot point if you're gluing your frets in(I don't glue mine, just a thought though).

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well,take a look at your storebought guitars and you will see that even the ones without binding have the fret slots sealed at the ends in onef form or another

if i don't use binding,i seal the ends by sanding the edges of the board after flushing up my fret ends(i nip the tangs back about 1 /16th on each side)just until the sanding dust fills the slot,then i drop in a dot of ca and after it dries,sand the ca flush and wala! ready for finishing

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Well, simply for the sake of constructive debate, if your slots were cut to the proper depth, you shouldnt need to "seal" the ends. Now, what is the point of sealing the ends when the rest of the board is essential open to the elements? If your board does absorb some moisture it is going to swell, not shrink which is what causes fret sprout. One of the main benefits of binding, IMO is that if your board does shrink the binding can act as somthing of a buffer, keeping the fret ends from protruding. I hope I dont sound like I'm being argumentative. I would love to hear your opinions on my "theroies" :D

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what you are forgetting is that your fret slots must be deeper than the fret tang...so that when the wood expends and contracts from changes in temperature the frets don't get pushed out.

but anyway...that is just the way it is done.you are supposed to seal those fret ends...and your fret tang is not supposed to run the entire width of the fretboard,because during shrinking the tangs will stick out just a hair and be rough.

but they are two seperate issues really...it's just supposed to be sealed.if you don't seal your fret ends,then i would never buy one of your guitars...if it is just for you,then really you can use toothpicks for frets if that what makes you happy.

but really...there is no need for theories in things like fretting..the correct ways of fretting have already been perfected.all you have to dfo is follow in the footsteps of the people who already made the mistakes in the past

besides...the rest of the board is not open to the elements...it is either oiled or clearcoated,depending on the type of wood...

there are two reasons for binding...sealing the slots,and hiding the slots...when you bind and then slot the binding..you do neither one...

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I love the look of this guitar. To me the peghead looks really awesome, no matter what people say.

@Wes:

but really...there is no need for theories in things like fretting..the correct ways of fretting have already been perfected.all you have to dfo is follow in the footsteps of the people who already made the mistakes in the past

Doing things only because "they were always done that way" without understanding and questioning the reasons is why many people do not become great luthiers or craftsmen in my opinion. I am not saying that you are wrong on this one, but I dont buy an argument about sealing the fret ends without proper reasoning.

I dont see what is supposed to happen when the frets are not sealed. I guess it's done for looks and feel on guitars without binding....

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i understand the reasoning behind it..i guess you do not.but i amtired of trying to explain because i notice that i get more hard headedness and questioning than i do willingness to learn and change to a better way.the edges of my fretboards feel really nice...better than any of those cheap instruments with the tangs hanging out

at work we seal everything to keep moisture out...becauuse over the years moisture will wick into everyhing and rust it from the inside.it only makes sense to me to do it tht way.it certainly doesn't hurt and it definately feels better.but i keep hearing you guys telling me that new ideas are somehow better...like the pine bodies and epoxy inlays...and in the sdame breath you put down something else just because you have never heard of it before.

why don't you do yourselves a favor and think about it for a minute...logically and with an open mind...what seems like it will be better over the years to you?what do you think would make a better looking board?do you want those visible tangs all down your fretboard?

even if you do not believe it necesasary...which do you think would look better oon the guitar that you sweated overfor months and sometimes years...the guitar that consumes all of your thoughts while youare building it...are you going to chinch on a little thing like sealing the fret ends just out of stubbornness?or laziness?it takes only a bit more time...get a tang nipper,some ca,and try it next time you fret...see if you don't find it to be better?any of you have a thought as to how it is going to make your instrument worse?no?

it is only better...that's all...if you don't want better...then by all means do it however you feellike it

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i understand the reasoning behind it..i guess you do not.but i amtired of trying to explain because i notice that i get more hard headedness and questioning than i do willingness to learn and change to a better way.the edges of my fretboards feel really nice...better than any of those cheap instruments with the tangs hanging out

Wes....i dont know what went on on these boards as I was away for about 1 year. I really am/was just interested in a constructive debate and to maybe learn something new.

I completely agree with you that sealing the slots is improving look & feel of a guitar and always do it to the guitars I build. I just did and do not think that sealing or adding a binding prevents any damage to the frets (like rust) as 80% of the fret is still exposed to sweat and everything else anway. I never saw rust on frets....

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sorry if my last post was a bit abrupt...i was in a hurry to leave for work.

okay...back to the "spirit of constructive debate"...you guys are asking me to tell you why this way is better...so allright,i have had my say and the response has been basically to "poo poo "it,with no real reasoning for the "poo poo-ing"

so i will throw it back to you...now i have stated my case,and it is up to you guys to state the case as to why your way is better...because i can think of no reason other than the "why bother" excuse...which i have answered to the best of my ability.

so enlighten me...why cut slots through your binding?why leave the fret slots unsealed,and why leave the fret ends visible...i am all ears.because,after all,as i said in my first post in this topic,these ARE just suggestions for improving future guitars.

by the way maestro...i didn't mean the frets would rust...i meant that we seal things at work to prevent rust(i am an ironworker,remember) and that if a little bit of moisture over a few years could damage the steel thenmaybe wood,being more susceptible tyo moisture,could be worse damaged.

also think about this...the majority of a frtboard is not endgrain...but inside the fret slots it IS endgrain...and since endgrain is way more susceptible to wicking moisture,then maybe you can see why there MIGHT be a concern.

but forget about the moisture...tell me why your way is better :D

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To be on topic, I would have never cut thru the binding. Now its not a binding anymore but only a different color fretboard on each sides. Why so much hassle for a binding and then cut thru it? Anyways, it's not my guitar, so if the owner is happy with it why not :D

Agreed.

And i wouldnt inlay into the binding either :D

:DB)

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I like the look of binding on fretboards. I would not slot through it. Binding is supposed to have a protective function as well as provide a decorative way to cover seams and joints. The "protective" element may be from plastic binding or from harder woods(in the case of soundboards that use soft tops). In the case of a soundboard you are also covering a lot of endgrain with side grain which is a plus. On a fretboard, I can see some protective element, but you are dealing with a very durable wood to begin with. I can see how it would a decorative way to cover a seam, although it does not hide anything per. sey just looks nice. It does hide and seal the end of the fret slot(if you don't slot through it). That covers the tang from possible exposure. It would close the slot so that nothing would get trapped in there(which is nice). As far as moisture. Most film finishes will provide a great reduction in the transmition of moisture(especially direct liquid). No film finish will prevent seasonal moisture from passing to and from the wood(it does slow the process greatly though, big plus). In sealing the ends of the slots you would provide for more even and slower seasonal acclimation and that is nothing but good.

So I think I agree binding has many purposes and advantages. It is not only for looks or protection. I can see Wes has pointed out another potential advantage. I believe of course you can also slot full width, clip back the tang, fill the side of the slots, smooth and apply a film finish with good results(different protection/look from binding, but absolutely adequit).

Peace,Rich

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by the way maestro...i didn't mean the frets would rust...i meant that we seal things at work to prevent rust(i am an ironworker,remember) and that if a little bit of moisture over a few years could damage the steel thenmaybe wood,being more susceptible tyo moisture,could be worse damaged.

also think about this...the majority of a frtboard is not endgrain...but inside the fret slots it IS endgrain...and since endgrain is way more susceptible to wicking moisture,then maybe you can see why there MIGHT be a concern.

but forget about the moisture...tell me why your way is better

Okay I understand what you wanted to say now and it makes sense to protect the endgrain. For a fretboard I think it's unlikely it will bring any advantage in practice though. I guess a fingerboard that is prone to warping, etc. will do so with and without, but who knows. I wont tell you why my way is better because I do it exactly your way, just not for protection against moisture.....! :D

I'll better not interrupt this thread anymore....:D

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