Sherwin-williams

[westhemann]

i spryed this one inside.i set up a closet at one end of the house like a spray booth,and i kept the heater running at about 80 degrees while i slept at the other end of the house with the windows open.not the safest or best plan,but it worked for this one.

i won't be spraying in the house again though,i will be setting up a spray shed

[thegarehanman]

Spray sheds are nice, especially since they can serve as storage space during the other 99% of the time when they're not in use. Make sure you get yourself a decent explosion proof fan to evacuate the fumes.

[Desopolis]

I wonder if you could make a Satin finish from it.. or perhapses even a solid color..

[erikbojerik]

Doing more homework on both the SW and ML Campbell conversion varnishes (CV).....they both come in gloss, semi-gloss (bright-rubbed), satin (medium-rubbbed) and "dull".

From the reading I've been doing, it seems generally true that (1) tinting it will slow the drying time somewhat, and (2) if you mix in solid-color pigment, you need to use the right kind that is compatible with the CV.

Wes, with the Preval how much did you thin it?

Edited March 15, 2007 by erikbojerik

[westhemann]

15%

[Vinny]

I picked up the Sherwin Williams 2 pack with Xylol, and my Grizzly spray guns should be on the door step waiting for me when I get home. Whooooooo Hoooooooo !!! -Vinny

Now the 60 degree weather will turn to snow tonite. Oh well.

[westhemann]

it MUST be at least 70 degrees farenheit to spray,and it needs to stay above 70 until full cure as well(24 hours)

so a heated spray area is needed if the weather doesn't cooperate

[erikbojerik]

it MUST be at least 70 degrees farenheit to spray,and it needs to stay above 70 until full cure as well(24 hours)

Yep...from what I read, you'll get less cross-linking (= less hard) at lower temps.

[Vinny]

Thanks guys, I will definitely wait till its warmer. The Grizzly guns came yesterday, they look sweet! -Vinny

[photoshopdesigngeek]

Hey guys,

I'm kind of new to guitar building (actually just posted a question), but I done alot of wood finishing, about five years worth. I've sprayed everything from trim to doors to mantles, but never a guitar. I haven't ever used the stuff you've mentioned, but we use something called pre-catalyzed lacquer. You don't have to mix it with anything, and it sprays awesome. In three coats you can get a durable, hard, goodlooking finish. It isn't as durable as poly, so I've been wondering if it would be okay for a bass or guitar. I think if I put five or six coats on, it would be, but I was wanting to get some opinions on it before I did. What do you guys think? If it does work, then I wouldn't use anything else. It's the easiest stuff to work with. I've used poly before and I hate it.

Ryan

Edited April 14, 2007 by photoshopdesigngeek

[ihocky2]

I'm going to bring up an old topic here for a few quick questions. Will the guys at Sherwin Williams know what types of dyes and pigments are compatable with this product. How hard is it to sand and buff as compared to nitro and to 2-part poly. How many coats are necessary to get a good build that will not sand through and generally how many passes are you guys using per coat. I know with spray can nitro it is generally 2-3 passes per coat and something like 20 coats to get a good build. But this sounds like it will build a lot quicker. I saw the spec sheet said that over 4 mil thickness will be more prone to cracking.

[westhemann]

4 mils is THICK....how many passes per coat?well,that entirely depends on how heavy you spray per pass.How many coats to apply before level sanding depends entirely on how level the surface prep is and how good you spray.

The only question you asked that can be answered is "how does it sand compared to nitro?",to which the answer is about the same.

compatible pigments and dyes?universal.

[ihocky2]

Thanks for the help. I understand that depending on how heavy you spray is going to determine how many coats you need, but can you give a general range, ex. 10-12 coats. The main problem I have is that I've never really dealt with anything that I was concerned about mil thickness. I know that 4 mils is 4/1000" or about a quater of 1/64". But that doesn't mean a whole lot to me other than numbers.

[erikbojerik]

But that doesn't mean a whole lot to me other than numbers.

4 mils is roughly half the thickness of your high-E string.

I've been playing around with a similar pre-cat conversion varnish I got locally. You don't want a single application thicker than that, the cracking will come about because it will skin over before the interior has a chance to cure properly, and it will crack in that way. My guess is that you can get away with a larger total thickness overall, but you have to make sure you give each coat at least a week to cure fully, then scuff sand between fully cured coats and build that way. And don't scuff sand until just before you're ready to shoot the next coat.

I really like this stuff, it is ready to sand in about 60-90 minutes after shooting. I'll be shooting a wood box for practice, and then my acoustic proj, this very afternoon (as soon as the fog burns off).

Edited May 12, 2007 by erikbojerik

[J_48_Johnson]

This is a very good thread. I've been thinking about a CA or something other than nitro for my current project. Can you lay this on top of standard wood stains or do you have to tint the product?

[erikbojerik]

I don't think I've ever seen a clear coat done entirely with CA. It would take a really long time to build thickness methinks.

The conversion varnish goes on clear. I think it would do very well over stain, when I shot the acoustic today (sunny 78°F) it was dry to the touch in under 10 minutes and I flipped the body after 20 minutes (I shoot with the body lying flat on a workmate table).

[westhemann]

4 mils is roughly half the thickness of your high-E string.

You sure?I really thought it meant something else.my finish is much thicker than that,and I have no problems with chipping or cracking,and I shot it all in a matter of a few days.

Also,it is meant as a bartop finish,and those finishes are pretty dang thick.

[ihocky2]

Thanks for all of the follow up info. This sounds like it will be a really nice product. I don't want to get into the poly's because they are soo hard to sand and all of the problems with breathing it in. But I am not a fan of how long nitro takes to cure and how it yellows with time. This sounds like a nice in between compromise product that I will absolutely be trying on my next project.

[Daniel Sorbera]

4 mils is roughly half the thickness of your high-E string.

You sure?I really thought it meant something else.my finish is much thicker than that,and I have no problems with chipping or cracking,and I shot it all in a matter of a few days.

Also,it is meant as a bartop finish,and those finishes are pretty dang thick.

4 mils = .004" (or .1016 mm) which is thinner than a piece of paper the high e string is approx .10 (25 times thicker than 4 mils )

[westhemann]

I think there is something wrong with that.maybe just one coat at a time could be that thin,but there is no way this product is meant to applay altogether that thin.

The finish on my exploder is about 1.5mm

[marksound]

4 mils = .004" (or .1016 mm) which is thinner than a piece of paper the high e string is approx .10 (25 times thicker than 4 mils )

I don't know about anyone else, but my high E is .010". Just sayin'.

[Daniel Sorbera]

4 mils = .004" (or .1016 mm) which is thinner than a piece of paper the high e string is approx .10 (25 times thicker than 4 mils )

I don't know about anyone else, but my high E is .010". Just sayin'.

We we're talking about bass right?

Curse my stupidity.

Yes your right, 4 mils is approximately half the high e.

Feel free to ignore me.

But now that thats cleared up, wes's 1.5 mm is still pretty darn thick.

[erikbojerik]

As I read it, the cracking problems come in when you spray a single coat that is thicker than ~4 mils dry (or ~12 mils wet), although the ones I shot looked a bit thicker than that. The stuff cures so quickly that if you spray it too thick, it will skin over and crack as the inside cures.

I think the total thickess of the final clear coat can be anything you want, as long as each layer cures properly.

I don't want to get into the poly's because...all of the problems with breathing it in.

Well hocky, you should know that (like all catalyzed finishes) the fumes from this conversion varnish will kill you just as fast (and just as dead) as 2-pack poly. I use a respirator with dual carbon filters, nitrile gloves, and a long-sleeve shirt & pants. And that's spraying outside in my driveway. Indoors you'll need a proper spray booth with a contaminant-free source of clean air.

Edited May 14, 2007 by erikbojerik

[westhemann]

As I read it, the cracking problems come in when you spray a single coat that is thicker than ~4 mils dry (or ~12 mils wet), although the ones I shot looked a bit thicker than that. The stuff cures so quickly that if you spray it too thick, it will skin over and crack as the inside cures.

I think the total thickess of the final clear coat can be anything you want, as long as each layer cures properly.

That makes more sense.

[ihocky2]

As I read it, the cracking problems come in when you spray a single coat that is thicker than ~4 mils dry (or ~12 mils wet), although the ones I shot looked a bit thicker than that. The stuff cures so quickly that if you spray it too thick, it will skin over and crack as the inside cures.

I think the total thickess of the final clear coat can be anything you want, as long as each layer cures properly.

I don't want to get into the poly's because...all of the problems with breathing it in.

Well hocky, you should know that (like all catalyzed finishes) the fumes from this conversion varnish will kill you just as fast (and just as dead) as 2-pack poly. I use a respirator with dual carbon filters, nitrile gloves, and a long-sleeve shirt & pants. And that's spraying outside in my driveway. Indoors you'll need a proper spray booth with a contaminant-free source of clean air.

Thanks for the heads-up. I was planning on spraying outdoors and wear a good respirator anyway, so was pretty well prepared anyway. But I kind of figured that since this did not cure as hard as 2 part poly's that it wasn't as harsh on your body. But why bother taking the chance, an ounce of prevention so to speak.