Spray Can Paint Job

[levelhead86]

Somebody wrote in *I don't have the patience to go check for it right now* that a quart will clear 4-5 guitars... and you're saying that it'll take 5 cans of spray to do one guitar... so apparently 5 full cans of spray are the equivalent of a quarter of a quart *I dunno how many ounces that is, off the top of my head*? That didn't add up right to me.

Edited January 20, 2007 by levelhead86

[Southpa]

sorry southpa,you misunderstand me...i am saying ALL of the off the shelf one part paints are not as good or as durable and they don't cure as fast as their 2 part counterparts.

I wasn't referring to 1 part vs. 2 part, they are totally different animals. I wish I could use some of the 2-part, seen it mixed, filtered and sprayed at the boat building shop I used to work at, its actually polyurethane resin paint, rock hard and extremely high gloss. When applied properly wetsanding is not necessary. I usually got pissed at the painters when they made mistakes because I was the guy who had to sand them out.

but seriously...all spraycan stuff is messed with to increase the shelf life...it has to be made to cure slower in order to increase the shelf life...i just don't see any way around that.

I was referring to the above quote when talking about Minwax poly. I've used both aerosol and brush on forms and they are identical, same curing time, smell, consistency etc.

Edited January 20, 2007 by Southpa

[westhemann]

southpa...i said that because we were talking specifically about aeresol cans..i did not exclude the non spray stuf...but i certainly did broaden my statement later to include every one part finish that you can buy in home depot,wal mart,etc...it is all not as goodas the 2 part...but as far as i know they just add thinners to the aeresols to make them spray properly...the big cans on the shelf cerainly have the same composition to increase the shelf life....

and you're saying that it'll take 5 cans of spray to do one guitar... so apparently 5 full cans of spray are the equivalent of a quarter of a quart *I dunno how many ounces that is, off the top of my head*? That didn't add up right to me.

it doesn't make sense to you because you aren't taking into consideration how much you have to sand off to level the orange peel from the spraycan,how much you lose from the thinner mixture going everywhere except the guitar,how much catalyst and thinner you add to a quart of the 2 part before spraying,etc...

i don't really know how many guitars a quart of unmixed 2 part will mix up to finish...that was said by someone else.

i do know i have never succeeded in finishing a guitar with rattlecans in less than 5 cans,after level and scuff sanding between coats,and after leaving the last bit in every can to avoid spitting.

[butchpenton]

SPRAY CANS vs SPRAY GUNS

Listen, Self appointed gurus and apostles who spew opinions without research. Don't tell this guy that spray can finishes take significantly longer to cure than those applied with a spray gun. It simply isn't true. There are certainly drawbacks - potential spitting and orange peel but the chemicals are the same and to suggest otherwise is simply ridiculous and calls into question anything else you've written on this forum.

If you don't have the means to personally experiment; I recommend that you read or view Dan Erlewine's training materials that compare spray cans and spray guys where he suggests that spray guns are only really necessary when shooting a lot of paint/lacquer/whatever.

If spray cans are so bad then why could you visit stewmac.com to purchase ColorTone Aerosol Guitar Lacquer?

Only on guitar websites can a man read such mindless drivel.

Here's another gem:

Weasel: The Gibson Les Paul has more sustain than a Stratocastor.

Jerk (That's me): Yeah, true enough, so frickin' what. Are you going to ask your audience to press their ear to your guitar's body while you play? NO! You will plug it into an amplifier, maybe through a "sustainer."

[Mickguard]

SPRAY CANS vs SPRAY GUNS

Listen, Self appointed gurus and apostles who spew opinions without research. Don't tell this guy that spray can finishes take significantly longer to cure than those applied with a spray gun. It simply isn't true. There are certainly drawbacks - potential spitting and orange peel but the chemicals are the same and to suggest otherwise is simply ridiculous and calls into question anything else you've written on this forum.

Yeah, I was scratching my head over Dino's first post there. Although it's not exactly true that the stuff in the spray cans are exactly the same as in the pots --but I thought that it was the pots that get the extra retarders and other chemicals, since they you don't want the solvent to evaporate too quickly with those. With spray cans it's less of an issue.

But I get the feeling that Dino's problem was that he was using the WRONG spray cans. It's the only way I can see it.

At any rate, the first guitar I painted (with acrylic automotive spray can) still looks as good as the day I polished it. I let it hang for a month before that. In fact, I'm kind of surprised it held up this well. And I've just been shooting with cans of nitro --it's been four days, the guitar's been hanging in a heated closet, and it's already nice and hard. I'm still going to let it sit another couple of weeks to be on the safe side, but I see no issues.

So I can't help thinking that Dino's giving out a lot of misinformation here.

Another problem I'm having with this thread is the idea that spraying poly is somehow superior to spraying nitro. They're different, they have different properties, give different results, that's all.

[Maiden69]

Don't tell this guy that spray can finishes take significantly longer to cure than those applied with a spray gun. It simply isn't true.

Yes they do! I have used DEFT both spray and can, and the spray dries faster! And it is not a matter of a difference in the finish, but the contents. THe spray variety has more solvents than the one in cans. And if you go and compare acrilik spay cans to nitro sprayed with a gun, then nitro will cure faster. But this are 2 different finishes. Acrilik like the duplicolor stuff is very easy to spray too thick with out runs, this will trap the gases because the top coat will cure and won't let it breath, this is why most of the guys that spray duplicolor complain about 8 months driying time!

Now, there is one that I haven't tried. I recently started to use Behlen nitro, and I must say that it is harder than DEFT nitro and Flows better. On the other hand, the clarity is the same, both are the same to sand, buff, and polish. But I will never use the DEFT anymore, even if I have to use a preval to shoot the Behlen!

If spray cans are so bad then why could you visit stewmac.com to purchase ColorTone Aerosol Guitar Lacquer?

Because a lot of us don't have a spray set up, Like above mention, I haven't tried the colortone nitro, but if it is the same as the DEFT, I wouldn't use it!!! it gives a dreat finish, superb gloss, but it is softer than Behlens.

Only on guitar websites can a man read such mindless drivel.

[butchpenton]

I suppose it's not a coincidence that it was clear whom I was speaking of. By the way, ColorTone Aerosol Guitar Lacquer is a can aerosol and it is fabulous. Further, I never intended to compare apples to oranges.

I also have a full set up and love the extra control with thinner and blush additives in our South Texas humidity, but to assume that there is a huge time savings isn't true. While you will need 4hrs between 3 or 4 coats with the aerosol and then wait 10 days for the entire cure, this is a minimum schedule with spray gun, hose and compressor:

-Washcoat 1-2 coats • 1-2 hours apart

-Build a level surface with Lacquer 3-4 coats (2-3 coats per day, 1-2 hours apart)

-Color or clear coats 2-4 coats (2-3 coats per day, 1-2 hours apart)

-Wet Sand and Buff, Allow finish to cure 4-days

So you can see that it takes approx. 8 days with full-on equiped shop anyway.

[Maiden69]

That's almost the same time I'm allowing myself, at least now in central Texas, while I was in MD I had to wait a little more for the nitro to cure harder, I guess that the hot weather here helps a lot in drying time!

I think i know WHO were the comments intendet to... but with out a quote, or reference anyone comes over to this thread and assumes that you are a "know it all" and that all the info in our site is rubbish!

Especialy with this quote!!!

Only on guitar websites can a man read such mindless drivel.

[zeppelinchld]

you can get a perfectly good finish w/ spray cans. if u do it right! ive done a couple of guitars w/ spray cans and they look fantastic. i hav one thats a year or two old and it is still perfect. when clear coating w/ spray cans u need like 35 thin coats. then let it sit for two months. that is a disadvantage to using spray cans. then b sure to keep the guitar away from rubber. spray can paint and rubber just dont get alon. i try to avoid buying anything for my guitars that has rubber.

[stiggz]

even most paint stripper will touch it.

haha dont be so sure, motospray (you US guy probably wont have this) quick strip will take 2 pack off i stripped my celica with that **** and there was 3 layers of what appeared to be 2 pack, a coat of isolator then 2 coats of enamel, and it took all of this off with 2 applications of this ****, its a thick as gooey substance and good god it smells strong, its like sniffing acetone but it smells worse and eats through just about every form of "chemically resistant" gloves

just going to offer my opinion now guys

after having done 3 guitars in rattle cans and 1 in polymersied tounge oil, i will say that the tounge oil has been by far the most durable, but was a kent of a job to do 20+ coats, the first rattle can job was crap the second a bit better, and the third was by far the best, the first one i used uncatylised enamel absolute crap that was, the second and third i used urethane in a can, second was crap cos i did it in summer the third came out very nice

after rebuilding and repainting my celica i have bought a spray gun (only a 90 AUD grav HVLP) and i cannot fault it, and the finish if poorly sprayed is about par with a good rattle can job, but IMHO you should buy a compressor and gun and go from there, bit of extra out lay, but with the compressor you can then use a rattle gun (i have a nice 900ftlb one:D) diegrinder and other really handy tools or just use it for its air squirting abilities for cleaning up

my 2c

cheers

luke

[Mickguard]

you can get a perfectly good finish w/ spray cans. if u do it right! ive done a couple of guitars w/ spray cans and they look fantastic. i hav one thats a year or two old and it is still perfect. when clear coating w/ spray cans u need like 35 thin coats. then let it sit for two months. that is a disadvantage to using spray cans. then b sure to keep the guitar away from rubber. spray can paint and rubber just dont get alon. i try to avoid buying anything for my guitars that has rubber.

35 coats? That's excessive.

The problem with this thread is that people aren't stating what type of varnish/lacquer/paint they're using and what kind of results they're trying to achieve.

I just sprayed with nitro (cans). I put on 8 reasonably wet coats-- I'm trying to achieve a thinner vintage type of finish.

The point of lacquer is to protect the finish of the guitar during its reasonable use over the course of time. Not to wrap it in bullet-proof armor. I like the look of nitro as it discolors, shrinks, and eventually cracks over time.

So you don't want to use nitro if you're going for that ultra-glossy, ever-shiny look (nothing wrong with that). You'll want something much less prone to changes over time, like polyurethane or polyester. But in that case, I'm pretty sure there are only two coats involved--the first coat provides adherence, the second is the actual shell?

Someone spraying two-pack is going for a different finish and look --seems to me that's mostly for pros (or people who want to play at being like a pro) who need to get the guitar done and out the door quickly, so they can move on to the next one, so they can make their living.

Anyone using an enamel-based paint for their guitar is simply making a mistake. And if you're taking any old can of spray paint off the shelf without verifying what's inside, then you're also making a mistake.

I get the idea that some of you don't realize that there's a lot of different spray cans out there: nitro, acrylic, enamel, nitro alkyd, polyurethane, etc. They're not all the same!

Telling me that it will take 8 months for my guitar to cure enough to polish it is sheer nonsense. That may be the case for you --but in that case, you've been using the wrong product.

I'm finally starting to get a bit of finishing routine down that works for me. But if I were new at this, and reading this thread, I'd be lost among all the misinformation presented here.

Oh, and that rubber thing? That only applies to a certain type of finish that will react chemically with the gasses put out by certain types of rubber products. It has nothing to do with whether you use spray cans or not.

[Southpa]

They say 90% of a good paint job is whats underneath. I fully support that statement after painting numerous things throughout my life like boats, cars, houses (inside and outside) and guitars. I sprayed about 35 coats of Minwax poly on my first guitar. Why so many? It was open pored mahogany ie. no grain filling. So whats underneath has a very strong bearing on what you do for a surface coat. Type of wood and how its prepared is an important factor. If I were to try filling untreated mahogany with lacquer I would be spraying 'til the cows come home. And then 6 months later I would have to spray again as the stuff would shrink right back into the grain.

[westhemann]

Listen, Self appointed gurus and apostles who spew opinions without research. Don't tell this guy that spray can finishes take significantly longer to cure than those applied with a spray gun. It simply isn't true. There are certainly drawbacks - potential spitting and orange peel but the chemicals are the same and to suggest otherwise is simply ridiculous and calls into question anything else you've written on this forum.

quite the inflammatory little post you have there...glad you could pull up a longdead topic just to throw that out...

you are wrong of course...spray cans DO take longer to cure than the 2 part finish "equivalent".it does take significanly longer to build the coats with the spraycans vs the real thing.spray can poly will never cure as hard as 2 part auto poly...it's just a completely different product...altogether...

yes they are both polyeurethane based..but that is about as far as it goes...

it's obvious your post was meant to start a flame war...well,you will not get one here...dino has not been back since he was busted out for the cheap tactics of double id posting(or whatever you wish to call it),and i,being the other guy on the "high quality" finishing side,am not going to rise to the bait.

not sure who you were reffering to as the guy with no experience with the spraycans...i have tried just about everything i could get my hands on,including those "miracle" colortone cans...yes,for spraycan stuff it works fairly well...but for building a thick finish it just doesn't cut the mustard.i really despise waiting months to assemble my guitar,and still having thetuners sink into the finish...

if all you are doing is having fun,use whatever you want...it doesn't matter to me...but i want my guitars to look good for longer than it took to build them.

but you know...there IS a reason those 2 part polys are so expensive..the workability and schedule of my little 2 part sherwood stuff is so superior to anything i have found in a can on a shelf that it is well worth the extra cost to me.but as i said before,it still works out as cheap or cheaper in the end...plus i get to have a more pleasant experience applying it.

i will be switching to the big boy stuff after this guitar though...me and Dupont are going to be best friends.can't wait to get the spray shed done

Only on guitar websites can a man read such mindless drivel.

why thank you.i can only assume that you got here by mistake then?not sure what qualifies you as better than the other "mindless guitar builders" around here...maybe your charming personality?maybe you meant to type www.nasa.com and accidentally typed in www.projectguitar.ibforums.com...it is an easy mistake to make...

why...i myself meant to order a cheeseburger yesterday but ended up at kentucky fried chicken...then i yelled at the tiny little girl behind the counter because,as i see it,how dare she work in a place that serves up fried chicken when what i CLEARLY wanted was a cheeseburger?

alas though...i had to go across the street to whataburger...they fixed me up