costo Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) Im trying to gather tools for my first fret level. I read on FRETS.COM this old wood planer is a reliable flat fret leveler. I was wondering what the opinion is........... http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/To...ools/plane.html Edited January 21, 2007 by costo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 wierd topic for the "spam on the brain" type forum members here...maybe it's just me,but the name "costo" sounds like a spammer name...i must admit i gingerly clicked the link and checked first to make sure it wasn't a link to a virus plagued porn site before i even did that... but yeah,we all use different things for sanding blocks...i use a piece of maple i ran through my jointer...but the plane you linked to seems to be a very good idea,and probably heavy enough to be effective to a high degree. but i am not sure what you are asking?it is obvious it will work...so maybe what you really mean is "check this out,i think this is a good idea!"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costo Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Thanks.. I think..... Yea, i thought it was a good idea, so i bought one on Ebay. I just couldnt get the picture I took of mine attached to my post so I added a link. I was just wondering if there was something I wasnt seeing before i used it on my frets. Im new to the site and ive been just reading till now. COSTO is just short for COSTANTINO (incase your writing a book). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 well,i would use it more for sanding bodies...but i don't level my frets...ratheri level the fretboard before install...if installed properly and if the neck is made properly,i have no need to level i will be sure to credit any info in my book to you if it pertains to plane sanding blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 You'll have to ask a reliable precision ground straight-edge. Mr. Ford meant that his particular plane was flat enough. With any other plane, it's anybody's guess. Rough handling, rust, cheap copy, are some things that could make a plane less than ideal. I have a #5 that's in such bad shape, it's only good for sitting on a shelf and looking old and rustic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 If its not perfect. Get out a piece of glass and put some semi fine stickit sandpaper on it 120-320. and go to town lapping the base of the plane on it. It 'll be fairly true when you're done. You'll see the high spots first and eventually it will true up. This is not a bad idea for any plane. Keep in mind the flatness of the base of the plane is only as good as the flatness of the glass. So if you have anything that has a truer finish like a surface plate, jointer table or somthing like that it may be a better bet. Just check it with an accurate straight edge first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElysianGuitars Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 when i was at roberto-venn, frank ford came and did a 2 day course with us before we started the repair course... great guy, and he used that planer shown there, and basically what you see on his site is exactly what he did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 ...Keep in mind the flatness of the base of the plane is only as good as the flatness of the glass. so how do you flatten the glass? I'd heard that the simplest way to flatten frets is with an oil stone...is that wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) ...Keep in mind the flatness of the base of the plane is only as good as the flatness of the glass. so how do you flatten the glass? I'd heard that the simplest way to flatten frets is with an oil stone...is that wrong? I think you read that wrong? im talking about using glass with sandpaper on it to flatten the bottom of the plane. Oilstone is not perfect and true .....close but not perfect. Especially if you get a cheap one. Edited January 22, 2007 by GuitarGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Glass is usually pretty flat on it's own - float glass is the flattest, but plate is still pretty damn flat. Not as good a surface plate, but probably as flat as a jointer or table saw top. Marble tile is pretty damn flat too, and a lot of tile places will let you have a piece for free if you ask nicely. Don't use regular tile though - that's cast and glazed, not ground and polished like marble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 You can flatten the glass by dropping it off the balcony onto something flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 I think you read that wrong? im talking about using glass with sandpaper on it to flatten the bottom of the plane. yeah...sorry, it got lost....scarcasm + forum = confusion + embarrassment BTW, I've got a greenhouse that didn't fair too well with the recent 70mph winds so if anyone wants some glass send me a stamped + addressed shoebox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 I don't use oil stones, but I do have a diamond stone that I use for fret leveling. I also use a plane with sandpaper to make my final joint adjustments for my soundboards and backs- I use it after my jointer, and only make 2 or 3 passes(moving only one direction) the plane maintains a nice 90 degree edge. It does a pretty good job. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyManAndy Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Glass is usually pretty flat on it's own - float glass is the flattest, but plate is still pretty damn flat. Not as good a surface plate, but probably as flat as a jointer or table saw top. Marble tile is pretty damn flat too, and a lot of tile places will let you have a piece for free if you ask nicely. Don't use regular tile though - that's cast and glazed, not ground and polished like marble. You say marble tile is pretty flat? My brother is a tile layer and he could probably hook me up with a nice piece or two for free. CMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Glass is usually pretty flat on it's own - float glass is the flattest, but plate is still pretty damn flat. Not as good a surface plate, but probably as flat as a jointer or table saw top. Marble tile is pretty damn flat too, and a lot of tile places will let you have a piece for free if you ask nicely. Don't use regular tile though - that's cast and glazed, not ground and polished like marble. You say marble tile is pretty flat? My brother is a tile layer and he could probably hook me up with a nice piece or two for free. CMA I have installed marble tiles, limestone, granite and I can tell you from experience I would not use one as a leveling surface. that goes for any tile made from any natural stone or any other tile polished or otherwise. They are made to walk on or keep out moisture period. If your brother is a tile layer he will tell you how much time he spends trying to get the potato chips he works with to look and lay flat. A granite surface plate yes, 3 times as thick as tile and machine ground to thousands of an inch tolerances and for a small one they are cheap, but never use tile. Stick with glass as a cheap alternative. Did I mention dont use tile Woodenspoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Well, my experience with the slab of tile I was given is definitely different to yours. It's at least 3/8" thick, extremely rigid, and as flat as can be. There is a whole shed load of difference between individual tiles being flat on the polished face, and all of them being the same thickness, and having both faces parallel. So, YMMV, but I still consider tile worth investigating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyManAndy Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Thanks guys. I'll probably get a few pieces of marble and just see what happens. But that granite surface plate sounds very interesting. I'll have to see if I can find some. CMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 My recent experience with granite tiles matches Setch's - my mother just redid her kitchen with nice granite countertops and granite tile backsplash (it's not actually granite as it's black, but it's similar enough in general properties that the people who sell it call it that. I have a friend who is a geologist who told me what it actually is, but I can't remember now). If I had an extra one of those tiles or a piece of the countertop I wouldn't hesitate to use it for anything that required a flat surface. I would be very surprised if the surfaces had more than a thousandth or two of variance from flat over a tile or over a foot of countertop. They are as near to dead flat as I can measure. The tile surfaces on the backsplash are not all perfectly coplanar, there is variance of as much as 1/32" or so on a couple of tiles on the backsplash, but the individual tiles are flat as anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 My recent experience with granite tiles matches Setch's - my mother just redid her kitchen with nice granite countertops and granite tile backsplash (it's not actually granite as it's black, but it's similar enough in general properties that the people who sell it call it that. I have a friend who is a geologist who told me what it actually is, but I can't remember now). If I had an extra one of those tiles or a piece of the countertop I wouldn't hesitate to use it for anything that required a flat surface. I would be very surprised if the surfaces had more than a thousandth or two of variance from flat over a tile or over a foot of countertop. They are as near to dead flat as I can measure. The tile surfaces on the backsplash are not all perfectly coplanar, there is variance of as much as 1/32" or so on a couple of tiles on the backsplash, but the individual tiles are flat as anything. I'm just providing my experiences setting tiles. If your tile looked like the first notched straight edge SM sent me it looked flat. But when the NSE was held against a known flat surface you could have driven a car under the bow in the center. Looking and being flat are two different things. FYI the NSE was replaced without apology it wasnt perfect untill I flatened it on my surface plate but the second one came in at specs and required a small amount of work to remove the high spots. If I had a choice I would buy a piece of glass rather than look for a flat tile. Remember these are tiles they are not made to a specific tolerance. If you dont have a surface to reference from, then you are even more likely to have no idea what you have. But it's only my 2 1/2 cents worth of advise so dont let me stop you. Woodenspoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I actually did check a few of them with a machinist's square (best straight reference I have available at home). If I were buying something for the purpose, I'd probably buy a piece of float glass first, or a toleranced granite surface plate (as you recommend) - and in fact I do have a piece of float glass with a bunch of pieces of silicon carbide sandpaper on it for tool sharpening. I just think that if you have easy access to some polished granite tiles they're worth checking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 I actually did check a few of them with a machinist's square (best straight reference I have available at home). If I were buying something for the purpose, I'd probably buy a piece of float glass first, or a toleranced granite surface plate (as you recommend) - and in fact I do have a piece of float glass with a bunch of pieces of silicon carbide sandpaper on it for tool sharpening. I just think that if you have easy access to some polished granite tiles they're worth checking out. Home depot and Lowe's in the US will sell you one tile if you really need one, but I still say stick with glass .You can also see if there is a business that sells store shelving, they sell tempered glass which I have used successfully for flattening tools. If it drops your a little safer off and its not really expensive if you can find it locally. But for flattening frets you really need long and narrow, make a deal with a glass shop to cut some 1/4" scrap for you Woodenspoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallisomething Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 I use one of the radiused sanding blocks from stewart mcdonald. If you level the fretboard and install the frets properly, it seems unlikely that the frets will be that bad. I dont get it though, everyone says they use precision flat tools for leveling frets....but arent most electric and acoustic guitar fretboards radiused? It seems using something flat to take material off a round surface would leave too much potential for it to not end up even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 I use one of the radiused sanding blocks from stewart mcdonald. If you level the fretboard and install the frets properly, it seems unlikely that the frets will be that bad. I dont get it though, everyone says they use precision flat tools for leveling frets....but arent most electric and acoustic guitar fretboards radiused? It seems using something flat to take material off a round surface would leave too much potential for it to not end up even. I could go on and bore you all with a lengthy explanation why a long flat tool is the way to go, but I dont remember anyone saying it was the only tool to use in the process. radius block and compound radius fret boards, Think about it Woodenspoke I think I broke my own minimal post wording record who-rah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallisomething Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 "I could go on and bore you all with a lengthy explanation why a long flat tool is the way to go, but I dont remember anyone saying it was the only tool to use in the process. radius block and compound radius fret boards, Think about it" - Woodenspoke I agree with you about the compound radius, I forgot to specify....I dont know what I would do to make a compound radiused fretboard. What do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) Makes me wonder about some people's sanding technique, when they think a curved surface can only be sanded with a tool having the same curved shape, especially curved surfaces which are radii between 6" and 20". That's not very curved. Edited July 8, 2007 by soapbarstrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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