Another Bandsaw Post

[jmrentis]

Well, again thanks all for the great info and help in this decision, it hasn't been easy. The tough part is for every step up in a saw, the price difference is worth it. In other words, starting from the cheapest saw ever step up is well worth the increase in price, probably from the cheapest harbor freight saw to the most expensive laguna. I believe that I am most likely just going to get this Grizzly 14" extreme for starters and if I need more later, I will worry about it then, this should be enough for what I need. I am going to get the riser block as well. 1 1/2hp, cast iron wheels, nice resaw fence, and so on. I am looking forward to it. I should just have enough without dipping into my poker account. I had been debating just withdrawing my poker winnings and buying a real nice one, but I decided against it. I'll probably order the saw this week or next and will give an update when I get it and set it up. Next, I guess I need a planer/thicknesser, but I suppose thats another thread. Oh well thanks again for all the help guys, every post made was extremely helpful for me and hopefully anyone that is looking for a saw. J

[erikbojerik]

I went back & forth about this ~2 years ago, as I wanted to start resawing my own tops from rough lumber as well as do the usual bandsaw stuff. 14" with riser, or larger? I ended up going larger, got the 18" Rikon from Woodcraft for ~$800 as I recall (floor model). At the time it was the best combination of features (good table & bearings), price and resaw height (12-1/2"). With the help of one other guy I managed to bring it home in the back of a Ford Explorer. I've been very happy with it.

Now I see they have a new 14" (model 10-325) with a 13" resaw height for the same price I got my 18" for ($800). Honestly the only time I've ever needed the 18" throat was a few specific cuts on a neck-thru, which could have also been taken care of with a router if I had to.

Don't bother with shopping for blades in hardware stores, go to Woodcraft or Rockler or order them online. Rich put me on to the Woodslicer blades (Google Highland Woodworking), I use the 3/4" for resawing and it is really worth the price and produces a nice thin kerf. When new, it almost pulls the wood into the blade; as it dulls a little bit, then it starts feeling like most other blades when they're new. I won't use any other blades.

[jmrentis]

Hey guys

Well, I ordered myself a little bandsaw. I've gone over and over everything and finally decided that buying myself a serious machine at this point in my life is honestly just not a good idea. There are a bunch of reasons that I'm sure no one wants to hear, so I'll just say I figure this saw will do what I want and with a little tweaking I'm sure I can get this machine to do what I need well. Its the one I spoke about somewhere above and here is the link to the page 14" grizzly bandsaw.

Once I finish a project or two and have some wood thats ready, I will setup for resawing with riser block and maybe double bearing kit. Anyhow, now I need to go find a good bandsaw setup book, if anyone has a specific recommendation I would like to know. I can go to Rockler anytime and I believe they have many books and probably any bandsaw book mentioned, so I figure I will go there.

I'm excited, I've been waiting to get one and all these things over the past two years have prevented me, but not any longer, whhooHaaaWhoooHaaa(evil laugh), wood better watch its bark now. I could have gotten a small one or cheap one a while back, but I wanted something that would at least last me until I finish my degree and I think this will.

Anyhow, just wanted to say thank you very much to everyone here that has offered all this excellent information regarding bandsaws. Even though this one doesn't have the traits of what is considered a wicked saw, I do have the knowledge of what a good one is and when I have the room, money and more permanent residence, I will know exactly what to buy. So, thanks guys, you rock. J

PS: Are there specific brands of blades at Rockler that are better than others? I believe the saw comes with one thats 3/8" and from the catalog it says Timberwolf, but I cant verify if that deal still applies. I know the book I will buy will tell me, but whats a general size blade and tpi for cutting hardwood bodies and the like. If you need an example say a zebrawood body. I'll probably end up buying those nice ones mentioned that Rich told Eric about, but that'll be later after I learn how to setup and use the entire machine well.

[Rick500]

My Jet 12" bandsaw is my favorite power tool. I've never had any problems whatsoever with it, and it does exactly what it's supposed to. I love working with it.

The blade that comes with it is not great though, so I put a Timber Wolf blade on it, as well as replaced the blocks with Cool Blocks.

I wish I'd gone with a larger one, but it's what I could afford at the time, and at under $350 (it was on sale at Woodcraft) it was a bargain.

[jmrentis]

Rick, Did it come with bearing guides top and bottom? I'm curious what the opinions are between keeping the single bearing guides or going with cool blocks, along with pros and cons of each setup. Yeah, I'm excited to get cutting, I believe I am going to have a blast now that I actually have one of the main tools I've needed for a while. J

[Rick500]

I'll try and get a pic later. There are Cool Blocks and a bearing guide, top and bottom.

[jnewman]

Bandsaws usually have a thrust bearing behind the blade (which keeps the blade from being pushed back as you cut. Sometimes this is a block type guide. The side guides can be either bearings or a "block" type guide.

Bearings are nice - they don't wear down (at least not quickly), they support the blade pretty well, they're easy to set up, etc. - but they're more expensive and they don't work well with very narrow blades (less than 1/4").

Traditionally, the "block" type guides (which are usually rectangular but are sometimes cylindrical) were made from steel. These last a good while but the problem with this was the blade needed to have a fair bit of clearance from the guides or the guides would wear the blade and heat it up. More recently, they started making the guides out of ceramic, which also wear very slowly and have a lot less friction so that they don't heat the blade up as much. These are a pretty good compromise for block-guide bandsaws. Finally, and most recently, are the "cool block" type of guides. These are basically graphite impregnated phenolic plastic. They're so slick they're pretty close to frictionless, which is where their name comes from - you can actually set the guides touching the blade without heating the blade up or damaging it. This makes them ideal for very narrow blades (although they do work very well for wider blades, too). The only real problem with them is that they wear down fairly quickly and have to be reset (and occasionally replaced).

A lot of people prefer ceramic or cool block guides to bearings. A lot of people prefer bearings.

This is just what I have gathered from my reading.

Edited July 3, 2007 by jnewman

[jmrentis]

Thanks for the information about the blocks and bearings. I figure I'll try the bearings for a bit and then the blocks and see what works better for myself. As you and I believe Rich said they are fairly evenly matched in most respects. If I find myself using mainly the thinner blades I will likely switch to the blocks. Anyhow, thanks for the info, every bit helps in my purchasing and setup decisions.

On a side not my timberwolf blade is on back order until mid august or something, so looks like I will be making a run to rockler for a blade, any suggestions on width and TPI. I know the one they were sending was 3/8". Mainly, this blade will be for cutting the body shape and trimming the neck and top. I know I will get this info out of the book I buy probably, but I would like to avoid buying the book coming home reading and then going back for the blade, so any suggestions would be great, thanks guys! J

[jnewman]

If you haven't tried it, Woodcraft sells Timberwolf blades in many of the standard bandsaw blade sizes.

There are a couple of "rules of thumb" for bandsaw blades. One is that you should always have at least 3 teeth in the material you're cutting. If you're doing resaw, I've heard you pretty much need a skip tooth blade (more room to carry out sawdust). Then, also, different blade widths can cut different curves. The minimum curve radius for a 1/4" blade is 1". For a 3/8" blade it's 1 1/2". For a 1/2" blade it's 2 1/2". (All estimates)

A good "general use" blade is a 1/4" or 3/8" 6 TPI regular or skip tooth blade. For resawing you probably want a 1/2" or wider 3-4TPI skip tooth blade.

If you want to learn all about bandsaws, I recently purchased a book, "The New Complete Guide to the Band Saw" by Mark Duginske. It's a very good book with great explanations. I would recommend it to anyone who wants to learn more about bandsaws. Some of it only really applies to the bigger machines, but a lot of it applies across the board.

Edited July 4, 2007 by jnewman

[jmrentis]

Awesome, great information jnewman. I appreciate the insight on blades and on the book. I will look through the books at Rockler and see if they have that one. I don't have a woodcraft near me unfortunately, but obviously I could order online from them and Grizzly carries the timbers as well. I would like to check out the blades mentioned in this thread also, which are ordered online. Most likely I will grab the first blade from Rockler because I need the book as well, once I feel that I have my machine setup well and have done a few cuts and know the ropes I will order a nice blade, unless of course Grizzly gets my blade from backorder and sends it to me by then. Again thanks for the information on blades and books. I will update when I get the saw. It might not be in until next week because of the holiday, but I will probably get the book and blade before that so I can start the setup process when it arrives. J

[orgmorg]

One other thing bearing guides don't handle well is woods like pine, with lots of pitch.

The pitch builds up on the bearings, and they start making a horrible racket.

Given the popularity of pine in guitar building, this won't likely be an issue for you, but I thought I would mention it anyway.

[fryovanni]

I am going to drop a thumbs up for Steel City Toolworks(they are kinda new, several of the guys from the old Delta and Powermatic design team are heading the company up). I picked up one of their bandsaws and it is performing extreamly well. The basic machine looks similar to a Jet,Grizzly,Rikon or what have ya, but look closer and you will see they have made some nice mods. The frame is reinforced(look inside), The dust collection perfoms really well because the housing doors are so well fit, the guides are stable and well machined, they use a dual spring design(most use single) and I am able to get proper tension on my carbide blades(if you use the little guage on most machines to set tension, you are not getting proper tension, and most non industrial size machines can't develop enough tension for a 1" carbide blade). I am pretty demanding(well in wood terms, I am not cutting metal) on my bandsaws(plenty of wide resawing), and tight tolerances. You can set this machine up to get the job done, and it holds its set up very well. Down side to this and most any factory bandsaw is the fence. You still have to make your own adjustable resaw fence, and a slider table. The machines table itself is solid.

I have looked over many of the Steel City Tools offerings, and I think you will be hearing a lot about this company in years to come. They seem to have a good feel for design and user needs, and their prices are still in the hobbiest woodworker range. Be sure to look them up when you are looking around for a new tool.

P.S. For the fellas that use Trimasters. I have a Lennox Woodmaster CT on the way(*new size 1" width, .35"gauge, 1.3TPI, they used to only offer 2" width) on the way. I am hoping it will do better on some of my wide resawing than the Trimaster(fewer TPI and nice low loss kerf). If it works well it will be a good option at 30% less cost than a Trimaster, and looks to be a better wide resaw configuration and is still carbide tipped.

Peace,Rich

P.S.(take 2) Orgmorg, I clean my bearings when I clean my blade. If you see buildup on the bearings, you definately need to clean the blade. Pitch will make it feel like the blade is dull when cutting. I try to wipe down the bearings and blade often to limit the build up(especially with pitchy woods).

[bentwood999]

hi Jmrentis about the grizzly 14 ultimate (get some extra bearings for the guides) it eats em up if ya do a lot of cutting (i measured mine and picked em up on ebay)

vxb bearings is the ebay guy

[Quarter]

vxb bearings is the ebay guy

+1 ... bought some bearings for my Craftsman from them, amazing selection.

[orgmorg]

P.S.(take 2) Orgmorg, I clean my bearings when I clean my blade. If you see buildup on the bearings, you definately need to clean the blade. Pitch will make it feel like the blade is dull when cutting. I try to wipe down the bearings and blade often to limit the build up(especially with pitchy woods).

You are right, it is mostly on the blade that the buildup occurs. I do clean it off, but with some pine, it has to be done after every cut. This gets to be a real pain. If I cut more pine on the bandsaw than I currently do, I would probably get another saw and set it up with solid guide blocks. The blocks will scrape the excess pitch off the blade, where the rollers just compress it.

Also, for anyone else using the Carter blade guides, the bearings are the same 608 size used in skateboards, and can be got real cheap in bulk.

Here's one place that has them in many styles, as well as other bearings, like for 3/4" top bearing router bits with 1/2" shanks:

http://www.vxb.com/

[fryovanni]

P.S.(take 2) Orgmorg, I clean my bearings when I clean my blade. If you see buildup on the bearings, you definately need to clean the blade. Pitch will make it feel like the blade is dull when cutting. I try to wipe down the bearings and blade often to limit the build up(especially with pitchy woods).

You are right, it is mostly on the blade that the buildup occurs. I do clean it off, but with some pine, it has to be done after every cut. This gets to be a real pain. If I cut more pine on the bandsaw than I currently do, I would probably get another saw and set it up with solid guide blocks. The blocks will scrape the excess pitch off the blade, where the rollers just compress it.

Also, for anyone else using the Carter blade guides, the bearings are the same 608 size used in skateboards, and can be got real cheap in bulk.

Here's one place that has them in many styles, as well as other bearings, like for 3/4" top bearing router bits with 1/2" shanks:

http://www.vxb.com/

You are right, real pitchy woods are a pain in the buttox. I never found blocks improved the situation though they actually ran hotter and cooked the pitch faster(cool blocks helped this situation a lot, but they wear a little and the potential cleaning action is not really there anymore. Plus the pitch still builds in the gullets and on the sides of the teeth. I am pretty lucky that I don't saw a lot of pitchy wood(I suppose spruce is the worst of the bunch, although resins from cocobolo and other rosewoods is nasty).

The comments about small blades and bearings is spot on. A blade smaller than 1/4" is best served with cool blocks(although the blocks will get eaten quickly). Any resawing will benifit significantly from bearings. If you use up to a 1/2" blade regular single bearings will do the job. A 5/8" or wider blade benifits from dual bearings(like Carters). Larger diameter bearings(generally only on 18"+ bandsaws run a little better yet). The top of the line for wide blades is going to be wide ceramic guides(blades wider than 1-1/4"(need to be in the 20" plus industrial saws to tension those blades, unless you run a specialty type re-saw).

It really depends on the application, and how much of what you will be doing. A 14" w/riser, 1HP range, and bearings will handle most anything you would do building guitars as a hobby. If you are running a LOT of wide re-saws step it up to the 17-18" range. If you are taking " a LOT" to a production type level(say 300+ 8"+ resaws per. day regularly) step it up to 20"+ 5HP or better. I ran a 14" w/riser with great success(very accurate, and it handled the hardest resaws fine, just a little slower) for a long while(and will never get rid of it). I can push wide resaws through my 18" at 5X the rate and with a higher accuracy and minimul adjusting.

A 14" is a perfect saw to start with because it will always have a place in your shop, and may never even outgrow it.

As far as blade with. I rarely use smaller than 1/4" blades(I have a scroll saw for very fine curvy details). With a 1/4" blade and the use of a few relief cuts you can handle just about all your cutting needs. As for TPI fewer is better for clearing material, more TPI is better for smoothness of cut. Woodslicer blades will give you about the finest cut you can get, and will minimise your kerf loss. The 1/2" slicer runs about 3/4 TPI .025" blade thickness(kerf is darn close to 1/32") and is a very good quality blade. Timberwolf blades are not bad, but I see no reason to use them anymore(for my purposes). I equal lifespan from a Woodslicer, with lower losses(1/2" Timberwolf will have a kerf in the 1/16" range a tad under, but will require twice the surfaceing to clean the blade scratches) and significantly smoother finish. Key to a Woodslicer(well or any blade) is getting your beam strength up(tension). Don't trust the marks on your bandsaw tensioning guage they are just about NEVER correct(generally low). Also be sure to release the blade tension when you are not using the saw(that is HUGE). I would also say from my experience the Woodslicer requires less power to make the same cut(which is a plus for 14" machines doing wide resaws). Make sure your fence and blade are parallel, the fence being sqaure to the table make no difference it has to be set to the blade.

Peace,Rich

[jmrentis]

Well, my saw came freight from Grizzly in 2 days!!! Damn that was fast. I ordered a mobile base to go with it because of a lack of room right now. I will soon have a permanent place for it, but for now I will have it on the mobile base. Thing is the mobile base was sent regular shipping and it won't be here until monday, LOL, I had to laugh that this huge bandsaw got here in two days and a heavy, but regular type shipping item takes a few days longer. Oh well.

I opened the box up to get the instructions and have been reviewing them. The machine look great, shipping was quick, customer service was excellent. I posted a question on how it was being shipped (one or two pieces) and I received a response not only to the question, but specific to my order, including information on the back ordered blade they owe me. Anyhow, I actually haven't seen this good of service in a long time, between ordering a bunch of inlays from Andy DePaule to ordering the Grizzly saw I have never been more impressed with customer service.

The saw actually came with a blade to my surprise, though not the one from the ad, they still owe me the Timberwolf as part of a deal they had, which will still be a while. Now I can wait on buying a blade for a little bit, until I have the whole thing figured out and setup well. I am still going to go buy a book and a couple of tools that will help in attaining better accuracy from Rockler. Anyhow, I'm very excited to start putting it together, but I must wait for the mobile base which is ok as I can spend that time reading on setups and such. Once I have it setup I'll give another post on the actual product and maybe show a pic. Again, thanks for all the great info everyone. I'm thinking at some point it might good if this got pinned somewhere. It just seems to have so much quality in depth information on bandsaws and setups. J

[Mattia]

Just as a general saw balde tip: give Louis Iturra (google Iturra Design) a call for some quality service, a fantastic 'catalog' (really it's a book in its own right) on bandsaws, and some excellent prices and advice on bladrunners (which are the same as Highland's woodslicer blades).

[jmrentis]

Just as a general saw balde tip: give Louis Iturra (google Iturra Design) a call for some quality service, a fantastic 'catalog' (really it's a book in its own right) on bandsaws, and some excellent prices and advice on bladrunners (which are the same as Highland's woodslicer blades).

Thanks for the recommendation. I always enjoy reading good catalogs, lol, seriously. I found their number thanks. Definately plan on getting some nice blades once I feel comfortable with the machine, which might be a while. It seems as though everyone who has tried those woodslicer type quality blades, has nothing but great things to say about them, which really saves me on figuring what brand/type of blade to buy, lol. Thanks again. J

[Mattia]

Just get a couple immediately, it's not like they're all that pricey (30-odd bucks for my 16" euro saw, I think).

[GCollier]

I am going to drop a thumbs up for Steel City Toolworks(they are kinda new, several of the guys from the old Delta and Powermatic design team are heading the company up). ......Peace,Rich

P.S.(take 2) Orgmorg, I clean my bearings when I clean my blade. If you see buildup on the bearings, you definately need to clean the blade. Pitch will make it feel like the blade is dull when cutting. I try to wipe down the bearings and blade often to limit the build up(especially with pitchy woods).

Hey everyone I'm new here, but figured I'd drop in my 2 cents worth. I recently purchased the 14" Steel City Tool Works bandsaw, and am extremely happy with it. At first glance this saw looked fairly similar to several other offerings, but closer inspection revealed that it is a much superior build to most. For one it comes with a 1.5hp motor that can be switched from 120 to 220/240V operation. Secondl it has nice heavy cast iron wheels (can you say "momentum"). I have done some resawing with it, and was pleasantly surprised to find that it did not bog down at all. I was using a 3/4" 3tpi Viking blade, and tried several 6" wide pieces of oak, maple, honey locust, and african makore. Cut like a hot knife through butter for everything but the makore, which is so pitchy it tended to clog the blade with goop rather quickly...I can't fault the saw for this,

This is a nice heavy cast iron beast, and a riser block is available to increase the resaw capacity. I outfitted it with a Kreg fence...only because I got a really good deal on it. I had done a lot of research before this purchase and for the money I think this is likely the best 14" saw you can buy. I am anxiously awaiting to hear what the tool reviews say on this one.

G.

[jmrentis]

Yeah, I just looked at those and they look very nice!! Honestly, I had searched for a long time for nice saws and never really came across those, which greatly surprises me considering how much I looked around. From their site there are only two places in California that even carry them, but I imagine its like that for many places. I just hadn't seen them around or heard much, but in now looking at them I am very impressed and I found a couple places with good prices, definately more than what I spent for my 14" extreme, but not too much more on sale. It said list was over 1000 but I saw one on sale I think for about 700. I really don't know anything about their prices because I only found one place that listed a price. Definately a brand I will look at in the future if I decide I need to upgrade to a larger machine, but for now I am pleased with my grizzly.

On that note, I have been very busy with school and have been very broke, so I finally just got a few things I needed like a proper gauged heavy duty extension cord to use, until I can get the garage cleared out. The entire thing is setup minus the table adjustments. The bearings guides and tracking are done, wheels are coplaner, tables are cleaned from shipping grease, ect, ect. Test run went extremely well and everything looks perfect. Tomorrow I will set the table, postive stop, make fense parallel, and make flush the extension table. After which I will make some practice cuts to see how it works. I was quite surprised at the amount of different setups that were needed and how important even the smallest adjustment can be. It's actually been fun just the setup and learning the machine, but I just have had so little time to do anything with it. Again, thanks for the help everyone. J

[jnewman]

Probably the reason that you haven't seen Steel City around in your searches is that they are a brand new company, founded if I recall correctly by a group of people who left Delta.

[cherokee6]

Just as a general saw balde tip: give Louis Iturra (google Iturra Design) a call for some quality service, a fantastic 'catalog' (really it's a book in its own right) on bandsaws, and some excellent prices and advice on bladrunners (which are the same as Highland's woodslicer blades).

I gave Louis several calls and requested a catalog each time. Never got one, so I gave up. If that's indicative of the service, I won't be purchasing from him.