Daniel Sorbera Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 I just ordered the wood from gilmer. Black limba back/sides/neck and a red cedar top (a pretty light colored piece). The body shape will be a small (15 3/4" lower bout) auditorium shape that I made with points from taylor, avalon, martin, and larrviee shapes. This one will have rosewood fingerboard/headstock overlay/bridge with matching rosewood binding on the fingerboard to hide the fret ends. It will also have an electric style neck joint where it bolts into the top ala myka, but it will have a heel for looks. I'm thinking I might try black binding on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodWood Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 (edited) I just ordered the wood from gilmer. Black limba back/sides/neck and a red cedar top (a pretty light colored piece). The body shape will be a small (15 1/4" lower bout) auditorium shape that I made with points from taylor, avalon, martin, and larrviee shapes. This one will have rosewood fingerboard/headstock overlay/bridge with matching rosewood binding on the fingerboard to hide the fret ends. It will also have an electric style neck joint where it bolts into the top ala myka, but it will have a heel for looks. I'm thinking I might try black binding on it. 'Black' wood or plastic? No Plastic binding please! Are you building a separate mold for this one, or just the dowl rod deal? Im having luck using the old heat gun getting a perfect mold fit, so Im thinking Dowl Rods, it would take me a month to do another mold at my pace. I was thinking of using that fretboard darkener for some black trim I will need. Like on Mahogany or something soft. Looks real nice. How do you print that out? Edited June 22, 2007 by GoodWood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted June 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Why not plastic? I think plastic binding looks great when done right. Just because it's a cheap material and a lot of cheap things are made out of it doesn't make it inferior to wood bindings. You can print out the full size plan at something like kinkos, or you can print it out on multiple papers and tape them together. and to answer your question, yes I will be making a mold for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 The wood finally arrived. Man that limba is sweet in person. I should have started using it much sooner. I decided to go with rosewood bindings. All the parts are on the way from stewmac. So after letting the wood sit around a while I'll start work on this one. I'll be making a bunch of jigs in the meanwhile. Here are a few pics of the wood. limba back cedar group neck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I'm curious how the cedar/limba combo will sound. I think most people would intuitively choose spruce with the limba, but it may just be what my eyes want to see. Hurry up, willya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Oh man, I think this is going to be an awesome combo. I'm a fiend for b.limba and that back is my idea of the perfect bookmatch, where there is an area of lighter colored wood/figure or sapwood, that always looks so good to me. I really want to do a zircote one like that. I cannot wait to see how this project turns out!! This is going to be the AGOTM, lol. I wanted to add a +1 one using plastic binding. In some cases wood just doesn't look clean enough for me and plastic does. I'm not huge on cream binding ever, but then I don't like anything cream for some reason. I'm all about the white and black. Wood binding looks great, just not in all situations, imo. I think black binding would look good on your combo and really the only binding that would work especially on the back edge, imo. Best of luck and can't wait to see some progress pics. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Most people would go with spruce/limba combo, but I wanted to do something diffrent for this one. I just love the look/smell/tone of WRC and I've heard nothing but amazing things about black limba, so I figured I'd give it a try. Boy I'm sure glad I did! My entire house smells wonderful like black limba and cedar It's such a great wood, I wish I started using it sooner. I'll be doing an electric out of it soon. The neck I got from gilmer had two pieces in it so I have an extra neck sitting around. BTW I've pretty much decided all the trim on this one will be rosewood. Bindings, headstock overlay, fingerboard, bridge, rosette, etc. I'll be using my brand new bandsaw and plane for the first time. I can't wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Love the limba Godin...this thing is going to be sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Alright the time has come to start working on this one. All the jigs have been buttoned up in the last few weeks and earlier today I got the plates thickness sanded. I used an old (made in the late 1800's) #7 hand plane that I picked up at a garage sale for $30 to joint the back and top. Worked like a charm! Just one or two passes and I had a perfect joint. Tomorrow I will get the sides bent and start on the neck. Look for a quick build on this one, I'll be working around 6 hours a day on it as I've got some time on my hands. We will also be starting a Black Limba electric in around a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Should have talked to me like Fry told you to awhile back. I've resawn out a bunch of black limba sets this summer that have (and not to say your's isn't nice, just not very wild) a lot wilder and cooler figure than that. And check the grain orientation on that neck blank... if it's flatsawn I know WHY they included two pieces. Alot of Gilmer's stuff they sell as two pieces that are flatsawn, you glue them together and turn them sideways and you have a quartered neck blank big enough to cut a whole acoustic neck out of, heel and all. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 The neck is quartersawn (both pieces). I sent you a PM, but I got no response so I figured you didn't have any you wanted to sell. I'm still open to buying some now if you have any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 I'm having trouble bending the limba sides. It doesn't want to bend as easily as the rosewood did, it just stays strait, no matter how hot it gets I cant get any kind of bend out of it. Do you guys have any tips on bending limba? Approximately how long should I soak it for? EDIT: I got the none cutaway side done. It took more soaking than the rosewood did, but it turned out great in the end. I'm taking a break before attempting the cutaway side :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 I'm having trouble bending the limba sides. It doesn't want to bend as easily as the rosewood did, it just stays strait, no matter how hot it gets I cant get any kind of bend out of it. Do you guys have any tips on bending limba? Approximately how long should I soak it for? Don't soak sides. I can't remember what you use to bend(blankets, bulbs, form bender or pipe). Let us know what your set up is(include info on slats and how you sandwhich the wood). I have used most of the common bending methods and would be happy to give you any tricks and methods that worked best for me. PM me if you prefer. Another thing that I am ready to use is super soft(veneer softener) for bending. I have heard wonderful reports from experienced builders that have been doing a fair bit of testing(with wonderful results) over at the OLF. You will need to be very careful with that cutoway(it is very similar to my Jumbo cut) as it is easy to damage during bending(seperation and cracking). Very solid form foudation is a must(assuming you use a form). Too much water will lead to seperation if you are not careful, and a lot of water is absolutely not needed. Be sure you are using distilled water(regular will lead to staining on light colored woods like limba or maple). It is also a really good idea to use paper to limit staining, and stabalize the water you do use. Thickness in a tight cutoway is also critical, I would recommend something like .07-.065". Anywho, sorry for not watching this thread closer. I will watch and try to help if I can. That WRC Marc sells is amazing tonewood(about the best you can get, IMO). Great choice, you will love it . P.S. Use plastic binding if you prefer, or even fiber. Don't let anyone influence your personal choices on details(that is your thing). Also plastic is not a bad idea at all if this is your first shot at a tight cutoway. Wood is tricky to bend(although I am sure you have the skill to use anything you choose). Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Another thing that I am ready to use is super soft(veneer softener) for bending. I have heard wonderful reports from experienced builders that have been doing a fair bit of testing(with wonderful results) over at the OLF. What is that? I'm just using a simple pipe heated electrically. The wood is .08 thick. I'm going to thin it out where the cutaway is down to .07 or so. I think I was just used to the rosewood which bent *very* easily. After going at it again everything turned out fine, I just was afraid of it at first. The cedar really is a nice piece. Great stiffness and it's perfectly quartersawn. I think this one will turn out to be a great guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodWood Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 If I was doing a cutaway, I would be tempted to do it like a cello, with seperate piece for the tight bend. Then maybe bind it on both sides of the tip. But I suppose anything is possible, I would practice that a couple of times though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 If I was doing a cutaway, I would be tempted to do it like a cello, with seperate piece for the tight bend. Then maybe bind it on both sides of the tip. But I suppose anything is possible, I would practice that a couple of times though. Your referring to a Florentine cutaway. Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 (edited) Another thing that I am ready to use is super soft(veneer softener) for bending. I have heard wonderful reports from experienced builders that have been doing a fair bit of testing(with wonderful results) over at the OLF. What is that? I'm just using a simple pipe heated electrically. The wood is .08 thick. I'm going to thin it out where the cutaway is down to .07 or so. I think I was just used to the rosewood which bent *very* easily. After going at it again everything turned out fine, I just was afraid of it at first. The cedar really is a nice piece. Great stiffness and it's perfectly quartersawn. I think this one will turn out to be a great guitar. It is basically fabric softener. Take a look at this thread at the OLF-link. If you are using a pipe, I would be tempted to go .065". It will make squat for difference in terms of stiffness in that are. The bends are so tight it will be the stiffest part of the rim anyway. You are going to find tight cuts on a pipe are pretty tricky. Take your time and be sure you are up to temperature before you work the bend. It is more tricky because you have to get the heat to the area your bending and in the leading area, without losing the area behind(hope that made sense). If you get some of it hot enough, but the leading edge is a bit cool. You risk cracking or a flat spot. If you heat it too long or use too much water you will risk seperation. Pipe is not easy on a bend like that with wide flat top sides. Since you make these to sell. I would really really recommend a form bender with at least one blanket(two is better). A fox style is workable also(and would really make this both easier, safer, and more accurate from guitar to guitar). The last set I bent using blankets took me about 10 minutes(that was Zircote). The last set I bent with lamps and heat gun took about 45 minutes(that was Myrtle). Both of those were Jumbos with tight cutoways much like the one you are doing. My pair of heat blankets ran about $140 shipped(a single would be half that). Good luck mister, take your time . Peace,Rich Edit; I snapped a quick pic of the sides I am working on.(the cut is pretty similar to yours) Edited August 18, 2007 by fryovanni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 The cutaway is successful! Yikes that was scary! I burnt my palm pretty bad, but other than that it turned out great. It's clamped in the mold right now cooling. I ended up thinning the cutaway area to .063 I'll definitely be building a bending machine with heating blankets for the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 The cutaway is successful! Yikes that was scary! I burnt my palm pretty bad, but other than that it turned out great. It's clamped in the mold right now cooling. I ended up thinning the cutaway area to .063 I'll definitely be building a bending machine with heating blankets for the next one. Good for you! You probably just made the tuffest bend you could make with a pipe. Mad skills baby . One trick I use when choosing thickness of my sides, is to feel the flexability and relate it to the bend you have to make. Different woods get flexable at different thicknesses, so make mental notes. If you use a better heat source(better meaning even delivery, and ability to control scortching), and a good solid form. You can bend a little thicker, but most people that have a lot of trouble bending are trying to bend too thick and can't deliver the heat to wood that is that thick. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodWood Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 That was fast! That will be one heckova blanket side bender! - I still get hothands with gloves using the blanket and mold (I dont use the thermostat) ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Worked 10 hours today and got a lot done. The tail/neck blocks are glued to the sides, the rims are radius sanded, kerfed linings are installed and radius sanded, the back is braced and ready to be glued to the sides (glued up using the go bar deck, love that thing), and the scarf joint on the neck is done. Tomorrow I will get the back glued to the sides (which is ready to go right now, but I don't want to rush it and mess anything up), cut the soundhole/rosette for the top, get the top fully braced and glued to the box, and get some work done on the neck. Not too bad, box closed 2-3 days after work started on the guitar. I took some progress pictures today, I'll post them when I get a chance, I'm tired right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodWood Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Man. talk about tortise and the hare. Im getting all muddled gluing the neck block in. I have to radius it to the top, but I dont know how to make sure its perfect vertical so the neck top will be at 90 degree angles. And Im not using my Engleman spruce for the bracing, so I have to do that over..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Man I guess I was tired last night. I ended up working 13 hours, not 10. Here are some of the pictures. Here is what the back looked like after an hour of sanding/cleanup. Yesterday morning it looked like this, Yuck Sanding the radius into the rims the dish Installing linings clamping glued Back strip cut out gluing notching to accept braces braces glued shaving braces done (heck yeah) another shot of the back (heck yeah yeah) The finished rims soundboard bracing marked link to the album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Very nice! Clean, slick, elegant work. Like the details, like matching back graft (though I prefer spruce) and neck/heel blocks. Question: what are the linings made of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Very nice! Clean, slick, elegant work. Like the details, like matching back graft (though I prefer spruce) and neck/heel blocks. Question: what are the linings made of? Thanks! The linings are the reverse basswood from stewmac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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