EMG DG20

[guitarchuck]

Help choosing pickups

im refinishing my strat(slight mods scalloped neck 17-21,hardtail conversion, quilted maple veneer) and figured i would get some new pickups for xmas

im considering the emg david gilmore setup

my style is a mix of blues,floyd,pumpkins,pantera type sound .. i know the pickups would be great for blues,alternative,and 60's type rock but do they get a decent shred/metal type of sound??

all the reveiws ive read some people say they do and some say there crap for a metal type sound .. right now my rig consits of a crate g600 head,beringher 4x12 cab,V-amp pro ,crybaby wah,zoom bfx-708 i know its for bass but gets crazy sounds on guitar lol, and a digitech metal master "heavy metal distortion" pedal

just wondering if i would be able to get more of a shred sound out of it with the emg dg20 setup or if i should use somethign else... i really dont play that much metal i guess... just to show off for freinds usually i play more blues/rock and alternative styles..but i do like to be able to break into a wild solo every now and then..

just wondering if any of you know about this emg dg20 setup and if it has the options to do what i want because not a single guitar shop around here has anything made by emg so i cant try them out b4 ordering

please advise me

chuck

[westhemann]

single coils are not great for metal.they have a kh setup that is though...has that 81 at the bridge...

[guitarchuck]

yes i know about all of there setups (emginc.com's stuff) but metal isnt really my meat and potatoes so to speak .. i mean i got an ibanez with humbuckers if i wanna play some serious metal ..just wondering about the momnets when i wanna just rip it up on my strat

ive been listening to the delicate sound of thunder,p.u.l.s.e and such alot the last few days just digging the singing sound of his strat .. (of course a highwatt head would help lol)

i mean i dont like any stock strat pickups ive heard.. so those are out and i dont really dig the sound of seymour duncans ..so i figured the emd dg20 would be cool .. i just wish i could hear them b4 i had to buy them on more styles of music than david gilmore stuff

... anyone know any other people who use the dg20 setup ?

[Drak]

Well, this will part you with a bit of your hard-earneds, but here goes.

What I have in mind you'd either have to have them custom-make for you, or you piecemeal it together.

Steve Lukather setup. You get an 85 HB at the bridge, and two alnico SC's up front. A good versatile, 'superstrat' kind of thing for starters. The SAV SC's are warmer and more toneful than the SA's (I think anyway)

Now, incorporate the DG-20 guts (the SPC and EXG controls)

Include the tone and volume pots from the Lukather harness.

Then, install an Afterburner on top of it.

Now THAT'S versatility.

You've got Bell-tone clean.

You've got mind-blistering mean.

You've got crunch Ka-Ching!

And everything in-between.

Pricey tho...but worth it.

Stick an 81 in the bridge if you want...

[punkrawkguy]

I've played the DG set's EMG's in an American Strat though a Marshall before and yes, it can do metal. Boost those mids, crank the volume, and up the gain and it'll grind.

Great clean tones to, very versatile.

[westhemann]

ummm...off the topic,but mids suck for metal...they make the gain sound harsh and tinny.that's why everyone scoops.

i have seen kirk hammet play the four horseman with three single coils in a strat.so it can be done.

[guitarchuck]

yeah i would definatley scoop the mids and boost teh treble and bass with the onboard cuircuitry of the dg20 setup.. wish there were cool music stores around here but the closest one i know of that even carries emg stuff is like 4 hours from here :| lol

but yeah i think the dg20 will work if nothing else i can always unhook the bridge pickup and cut out my pickgaurd and adda emg 81 or 85 later on my strat is routed for H/S/H allready just been using it with 3 singles but yeah it came pre routed

so.. on another note.. i know the emg setups use a battery

under the pickgaurd..

seems like it would be a bitch to change if it was under there .. i wonder if i should get a battery box and put it in the back of the guitar maybe..

[wylde1919]

ANOTHER GOOD OPTION IS HOT RAILS LIKE YOU SEE IN JANICK GERS, DAVE MURRAY, AND ADRIAN SMITH FROM IRON MAIDEN. JUST A THOUGHT!

[westhemann]

YOU ONLY HAVE TO CHANGE BATTERIES ABOUT ONCE A YEAR

[guitarchuck]

Oh

[daveq]

Boost those mids, crank the volume, and up the gain and it'll grind.

Does anyone else do this? I agree with Wes that the mid freq's are usually dropped when playing harder/metal music. I'm just curious what the other EQ settings would look like if you do boost your mid freq's - do you boost everything else along with it?

I sometimes get tired of the full scoop sound but for the most part, I avoid boosting the mids above the high and low settings. I have always found that pattern to sound very thin and AM radio'ish if you know what I mean.

Just curious what you meant by that.

[Saber]

For heavy distortion, I've always boosted the mids of pre-distortion EQ and scooped the mids of the post-distortion EQ. That combination gives me good note separation, and aggressive sounding chords and lead tones with very little muddiness. I rarely play metal though, but my music does get quite heavy at times. To sum it up, scooping is mainly for post-distortion EQ. You might be interested in these and other articles from the very informative www.amptone.com:

http://www.amptone.com/truesecretofamptone.htm

http://www.amptone.com/2eqswithpowerattenuator.htm

[guitarchuck]

well i am not quite shure what he meant by boost the mids ... becasue yeah it would sound bad to me.. personally what i do for blues,rock stlyes is set my amp like so..

Bass 5-7

mids 5-7

treble 7-10

gain 5

vol - 5-6

with that on my strat i get a nice creamy sound running thru the amp alone (crate g600) this gives me a nice clean tone with just enough bite to respond to my picking dynamics ..a smooth picking stlye gives me nice and clean and if i pick a bit hard i get a nice on the edge sound and for a harder edge i just up the gain a lil

for a metal sound i use my digitech heavy metal distortion pedal

it has a knob to scoop the mids and whatnot it gives anywhere from randy roahds to old metallica, megadeath,pantera etc

and leave my amp settings alone

but i use my ibanez whene playing metal stlyes ..

just my $0.02 cents ..

[Saber]

well i am not quite shure what he meant by boost the mids ... becasue yeah it would sound bad to me.. personally what i do for blues,rock stlyes is set my amp like so..

Bass 5-7

mids  5-7

treble 7-10

gain 5

vol - 5-6

with that on my strat i get a nice creamy sound running thru the amp alone (crate g600) this gives me a nice clean tone with just enough bite to respond to my picking dynamics ..a smooth picking stlye gives me nice and clean and if i pick a bit hard i get a nice on the edge sound and for a harder edge i just up the gain a lil

I agree that you wouldn't boost mids for a clean sound. It would sound too nasal.

for a metal sound  i use my digitech heavy metal distortion pedal

it has a knob to scoop the mids and whatnot it gives anywhere from randy roahds to old metallica, megadeath,pantera etc

and leave my amp settings alone

but i use my ibanez whene playing metal stlyes ..

Well who knows how your distortion pedal equalizes the guitar's raw signal before adding distortion? But my educated guess is that the circuitry is voiced so that lows are a bit attenuated to reduce muddiness, followed by distortion, and then it's scooped post-distortion.

[Jon Bell]

I've always found scooped mids sound great at home at low volumes but when playing with a band at high volume the guitar seems to "disappear" under the other instruments. I think it's because the bass takes the lows and the hihat the highs leaving the mids for guitar. I recently read that Kerry King of Slayer actually boosts his mids to give a more powerful sound.

[westhemann]

I've always found scooped mids sound great at home at low volumes but when playing with a band at high volume the guitar seems to "disappear" under the other instruments. I think it's because the bass takes the lows and the hihat the highs leaving the mids for guitar. I recently read that Kerry King of Slayer actually boosts his mids to give a more powerful sound.

well i do that too sometimes,but the reason why is because after playing at high volumes with the same eq setting you get somewhat deaf to those tones,so boosting the mids A HAIR will make it sound more powerful to YOUR ears.others will still find it harsh.

plus kerry king plays mahogany guitars so to get a sound that will compete with jeff's alder guitars he has to boost the mids to cut through.those guys also have completely seperate stacks on their sides of the stage so that all they can hear is theior own guitar.little bit of ego going on there

[westhemann]

btw his sound is still scooped... he just ups them a little from where he used to have them.

but i will be seeing them tomorrow night.i will let you know.when i saw him a year ago though he was still scooped

[guitarchuck]

well i read the 2 links that were posted ...about getting great tone.. and all

well i dont have 3 eq pedals ..but would the following work to try it out

ok heres what im thinking with the gear i have:

hook my guitar into my zoom bfx708 ( i know its a bass pedal but i like it for guitar) use it with no effects except eq only

then my digitech metal master "heavy metal distortion" pedal

then my beringher vamp2 with just eq and no effects

then into my amp ..

i dont got a power break but i live in the back of beyond so i can jam loud as i want really ... just wondering if that would work decent i mean both the bxf708 and the vamp2 have fairly decent eq's on them .. and it sounds interesting enough to try out ... i dont have enough "interconnects" tonight to try it or i would.. but tomarrow in gonna pick up a few short 1/4" cables ...

also .. where would a wah pedal go in a effects chain like that ?

[Saber]

.. where would a wah pedal go in a effects chain like that ?

Here's another debatable topic. Some would say after the distortion but I think most including myself would put it before the distortion. When I use a wah I use it in place of the pre-distortion EQ because if you add wah on top of EQ, then you're giving the wah less to work with. By allowing the full frequency range of the pickup to go through your wah, you give it more to sweep through. Some guitarists even use the wah as their pre-distortion mid boost by leaving it in a fixed postion like Satch sometimes does during his leads, but I prefer a more subtle mid boost.

I think the main thing is to experiment with the EQ-->Distortion-->EQ concept and understand how it affects tone so you can find your tone. But be aware that your metal master may already have a lot of its own "EQ-ing" compared to a more generic pedal like an MXR Distortion+.

[guitarchuck]

EMG-dg20's ordered

so in a few weeks ill have the strat refinished and put back together and ill try to borrow a cam to take some pics along the way

YAY i cant wait

and yeah i will try the wah b4 or after diff peices of the efects chain to see what i like .. and hopefully i can find "my tone"

well the metal master does do a fair bt of eq work it has a "low" "hi"and a

control labled morph that is essintally a scoop control full left give a pro co rat type of sound middle is a metal zone pedal type of 80's metallica sound and all

the way to the right is a "nu" metal type of sound ..

sorry for the poor explanation but thats the best i can give *shrugs* the vamp on the otherhand has beautifull sounds ranging from the old 60 fuzz to the hardest death tones and everythign in between .. so im pretty well set for distortion and i can dial in about any sound i want .. just never tryed using the eq>dist>eq setup b4

thanks everyone

[G_urr_A]

To continue the metal sound off-topicness (tell us to stop when we're going too far), I'm with dave and wes, middle below high and low. My eq consists of 3 20db boosters/cutters, and I usually have the lows at +3, mids -2 and highs 0 or +1. That together with emg 85/81 gives me a rather nice slayerish tone.