Geo Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 This isn't a particularly remarkable guitar, but it's a big project for me, quite a challenge... Top, back, and plan from LMI neck http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_0708.jpg back of neck http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_0709.jpg headstock closeup http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_0700.jpg my side-bender http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_0710.jpg I just built the side-bender tonight after finally finding a suitable piece of pipe. It's heated by a 150w lightbulb. It gets hot pretty quickly, so that's going to be tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Do you still have the part you cut out the for the sound hole? I usually use the centering hole to act as a guide to route for the rosette, and then cut the soundhole afterwords(makes it much easier to keep things aligned). Might want to cap the end of the pipe(it will help keep the heat up). Good luck with your project, and have fun Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted June 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Do you still have the part you cut out the for the sound hole? I usually use the centering hole to act as a guide to route for the rosette, and then cut the soundhole afterwords(makes it much easier to keep things aligned). Might want to cap the end of the pipe(it will help keep the heat up). Good luck with your project, and have fun Rich Doh, I didn't think of that! Another lesson learned, heh heh. This top is actually left over from the first time I tried to build an acoustic, so the soundhole was cut out a long time ago, and very badly. Yeah, I stuck a can in the pipe. This might work better without a cap, because the pipe got too hot within three minutes or so. If I can't get the temperature down, I may try a lower wattage lightbulb. Thanks for the reply. I've saved some of your posts about acoustic guitars; very informative! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inisheer Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Looking good so far. I hope to build an acoustic someday so I've really been following all these threads lately. Can't wait to watch your progress, good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 practice a little with the pipe to make sure it will recover fast enough. You need to be able to keep the pipe hot or you will not be able to keep the wood hot enough(this is not a heat up one spot kinda thing, you need to keep overlapping and advancing or you will get a lumpy bend). You should be able to spritz the pipe with water at all times and have the water sputter and pop as it evaperates quickly(hold like 290-325 degrees). Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted June 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) You should be able to spritz the pipe with water at all times and have the water sputter and pop as it evaperates quickly(hold like 290-325 degrees). Rich That's what I gathered from the Cumpiano book. After I had it running for about five minutes, water was disappearing immediately when flicked onto it. Way too hot. But this was with the can blocking the end. Maybe I should install a SPST switch so I can easily turn it on/off? @Inisheer: thanks for the compliments! I hope you'll be inspired to try it some day. Hopefully, I'll try bending the sides tonight. Edited June 18, 2008 by Geo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeg2 Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'm speaking from no experience here - but it seems to me that if you wire a dimmer in series with that bulb, you'd have quite a bit of control over temperature (at very little expense). Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted June 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) I'm speaking from no experience here - but it seems to me that if you wire a dimmer in series with that bulb, you'd have quite a bit of control over temperature (at very little expense). Rich Yeah. I imagine I could also use the 3-pos control from a box fan. I actually found a hillbilly way to control the temperature... just dribble about a teaspoon or two of water on the iron when it's too hot. The steam-off cools the pipe down and there's a window of oppurtunity as the pipe heats up when you can bend. I know, what a ridiculous hassle, but it works and I don't have to spend any more money! I bent one side and left it clamped up to shape while it cools/dries. It will need touch-up I'm sure, because the bend at the waist was ornery and kept relaxing a little. edit: here's some pictures. Don't laugh. http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_0712.jpg http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_0713.jpg Edited June 19, 2008 by Geo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I'm speaking from no experience here - but it seems to me that if you wire a dimmer in series with that bulb, you'd have quite a bit of control over temperature (at very little expense). Rich Yeah. I imagine I could also use the 3-pos control from a box fan. I actually found a hillbilly way to control the temperature... just dribble about a teaspoon or two of water on the iron when it's too hot. The steam-off cools the pipe down and there's a window of oppurtunity as the pipe heats up when you can bend. I know, what a ridiculous hassle, but it works and I don't have to spend any more money! I bent one side and left it clamped up to shape while it cools/dries. It will need touch-up I'm sure, because the bend at the waist was ornery and kept relaxing a little. edit: here's some pictures. Don't laugh. http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_0712.jpg http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_0713.jpg Keep a spray bottle with distilled water handy while your bending. You can spritz the side as you bend and dry the wood. This generates steam that helps tranfer heat deep into the wood so you can get a good bend, and prevents scortching. This usually cools down the pipe anyway(and why I mentioned you should check to make sure your pipe could keep up). If you are getting a lot of spingback, there is a good chance your not getting the wood hot enough to soften and then set the bend. I can't really tell if you are using much force to hold the shape of the side in your clamped form, but don't use much force, that is what cracks sides. The wood should heat up, at the right temp it softens and bends with very very little force, hold that steady for a few seconds, then go right back to the pipe and move forward. You need to keep a steady flow going as you work a bend. Then re-spritz, and get the process rolling again. Not sure if that is how your bending, but if not, maybe that will help. A steel slat over the area your bending will help keep the heat even and prevent cracking as well as help keep your bends smooth. It is also really important to use a good form to hold the sides in place, not so much to set the bend as it cools(that happens in a few seconds for the most part), but to help prevent the sides from distorting as the moisture equalizes after bending(some areas will be over dry, some will be overly moist from the water used to bend). This may sound like little issues and close enough is fine, but trust me, when it is time to touch up the sides to make sure they are dead square before cutting your binding channels(indexing the sides * this is why they have to be dead on) all those tiny glitches become a pain in the butt. I don't really use the pipe for much more than touch up these days. The side bending form and heat blanket method is just so much more consistent and reliable(as well as makes things go much quicker when it is time to true everthing up). A good mold also pays off big time. Keep up the good work! Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted June 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Thanks Rich. I'm guessing that I didn't get the wood hot enough, as it was springing back a little. It seemed easy to bend, but when I was holding the bend away from the pipe to set, it was pretty tough and wanted to spring back sometimes. The spray bottle is a good idea, I'll try that for the 2nd side and for touching up this one (I'm sure it will need touching up.) "I can't really tell if you are using much force to hold the shape of the side in your clamped form, but don't use much force, that is what cracks sides. " Well, it was springing back a little, but I wasn't fighting it to get it into the shape. Thanks again for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Natural Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 The first acoustic build (at least mine was) was a scary experience. I didnt have enough (or the proper) tools and further I didnt realize some of the techniques to employ If I may make a suggestion- it looks as though you have some significant tearout around your tuning holes and also a rough area around the truss rod adjustment. You can minimize the tear out on the tuning holes by placing a block of wood against the side of the headstock that you are drilling thru. It looks as though you drilled from the back(?) since you are missing some chunks in the front. Also- use a brad point bit if you didnt the first time- that will help as well. You can try filling in the missing chunks by using the old super glue/wood dust combo- but it may not finish as nice around those areas. I did the same thing on my first guitar- no worries! also- even though it will be covered by a truss rod cover- the wood surrounding that truss rod adjustment looks to be tight (the part towards the nut area)- you may want to clean that up a bit- you can use an exacto knife or razor to cut lines thru the head stock veneer and then clean it up a bit with a small sharp chisel. Just a suggestion- if it is tight in there and the wood swells/shrinks any with humidity- it may impair the ability to turn that rod. Looking good all in all for a first build. DONT GET DISCOURAGE> Make sure you keep track of the issues you encounter and seriously- review that list with the next one- you will be surprised how much more smoothly the next goes. keep on track with this build- and if you arent sure of something- ask- there are plenty of folks here that can help. Good for you for taking the jump. Natch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted June 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I really appreciate the kind words! The encouragement means a lot. If I may make a suggestion- it looks as though you have some significant tearout around your tuning holes and also a rough area around the truss rod adjustment. There's one large bit of tearout, but the rest of it is some wood fuzz that looks like tearout in the picture. I drilled from the top and had wood underneath. I've never had much tearout on the top of tuning holes. I drill with an electric hand drill because I don't have a drill press. I drill a little hole first as a guide (using 1/16" bit). also- even though it will be covered by a truss rod cover- the wood surrounding that truss rod adjustment looks to be tight (the part towards the nut area)- you may want to clean that up a bit- you can use an exacto knife or razor to cut lines thru the head stock veneer and then clean it up a bit with a small sharp chisel. Just a suggestion- if it is tight in there and the wood swells/shrinks any with humidity- it may impair the ability to turn that rod. Can you elaborate a little on this? Do you mean the size of the adjustment recess, or the tightness of the channel against the nut? I have both sides bent and touched up a little. They're now very close to the template (within 1/8" at curves). The headblock and tailblock areas are right on. Any thoughts on that? I'm inclined to run with it. Thanks again for replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Natural Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 I was thinking from looking at the pic (and I guess I really can't tell from this angle"- it looked like the truss rod adjustment was snug against the wood. Apparently not. If it was- you could basically carve out some wood running parallel to the rod- so it could turn freely incase the wood swelled. Since it is not snug against the rod you should be fine- I was just suggesting that you could take an exacto knife- run a couple of lines parallel to the rod (to cleanly cut thru the headstock veneer) then then carefully chisel out the wood surrounding the adjustment piece (micro chisels would be a handy tool here). Basically widening the channel a bit. If the bottom of the headstock channel is against the adjustment piece that would be tough- getting wood out from underneath would be a task. Natch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug 59 Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 You're doin well Geo..... I'm sure you'll pull it off and produce a fine first acoustic build, and the knowledge you'll gain will be well worth the effort. Keep up the good work, Doug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted June 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 If it was- you could basically carve out some wood running parallel to the rod- so it could turn freely incase the wood swelled. Since it is not snug against the rod you should be fine- I was just suggesting that you could take an exacto knife- run a couple of lines parallel to the rod (to cleanly cut thru the headstock veneer) then then carefully chisel out the wood surrounding the adjustment piece (micro chisels would be a handy tool here). Basically widening the channel a bit. If the bottom of the headstock channel is against the adjustment piece that would be tough- getting wood out from underneath would be a task. My fault, I still don't quite understand. Are you talking about the truss rod adjustment nut, the part that turns? The channel is 1/4" wide like the rod, so the 1/4" wide nut is sitting in a 1/4" wide channel. I think I understand what you're saying though, that's a good suggestion. I'll widen it a little there. @ Doug... thanks! This is exciting and crazy! All right. As Rich pointed out earlier, I cut out the soundhole without first routing the rosette channel. Considering that, I decided on a whim to use the following "rosette". Tell me what you think. As I understand the purpose of the rosette (to act like binding around the soundhole and stop the absorption of moisture), this should still accomplish that, as the gaps are small. That's cocobolo like the fingerboard. http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_0918.jpg http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_0919.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anderekel Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 The way the pieces are set on the top looks like some are slightly closer to the hole than others. I think you should draw a light circle X distance around the sound hole so that they all get the exact distance apart. I like the idea though, very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 The way the pieces are set on the top looks like some are slightly closer to the hole than others. I think you should draw a light circle X distance around the sound hole so that they all get the exact distance apart. I like the idea though, very cool. Yeah... for non-structural things I don't really believe in perfection/symmetry. But that's a good idea, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 is this not a 'structural' make up of the sound board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 is this not a 'structural' make up of the sound board? It is more for looks than anything. You reinforce the area with bracing from the back side. The edge of the soundhole (exposed endgrain), is not modified by the typical rosette. The wood or shell used for the typical rosette is not selected for strength or stability. Looks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted June 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 is this not a 'structural' make up of the sound board? It is more for looks than anything. You reinforce the area with bracing from the back side. The edge of the soundhole (exposed endgrain), is not modified by the typical rosette. The wood or shell used for the typical rosette is not selected for strength or stability. Looks That's what I figured. I gotta have some artistic expression that isn't measured out by a ruler, you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 is this not a 'structural' make up of the sound board? It is more for looks than anything. You reinforce the area with bracing from the back side. The edge of the soundhole (exposed endgrain), is not modified by the typical rosette. The wood or shell used for the typical rosette is not selected for strength or stability. Looks i thought we were all talking about the bracing on the inside, around the soundhole; sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 (edited) Well, here's some progress... Bracing the top. Yes, I did in fact improvise a sort of "clamped fulcrum" rather than buying deeper clamps. http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_1145.jpg Attaching kerfing... with $1 worth of clothes pins! http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_1161.jpg My reprehensible solution for attaching the sides. http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_1162.jpg The neck pocket template was "lightly glued" to the guitar and I held the router at a 90 deg angle. I love routing neck pockets, I don't know why. http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_1194.jpg Back bracing, where the improvised clamped fulcrums were crucial. http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_1200.jpg Neck bolted on... http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_1199.jpg I made an oversized head block. There was a snafu with the neck tenon, which I thought at first would require me to route a pocket as wide as the end of the neck. But I fixed that on the neck tenon, so the pocket isn't was wide as I thought I would have to make it. http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_1201.jpg Full frontal... although the headstock is not gray, but brown (walnut). Another view. http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/Ge...ar/IMG_1205.jpg Edited July 27, 2008 by Geo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Nice job man! It looks pretty good and it sounds like you are learning a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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