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Making "new" Guitar


diggidy

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Sorry for asking so many questions, and if i'm asking the same thing multiple times. I'm just trying to understand this electronics stuff.

Ahhh...here is the problem...but you have been asking in the wrong way. Yes, you don't seem to understand the electronics in the guitar and so you are being influenced by name brands hype and pickup mojo.

What you need to do is to get a book or check around and research the area to get a general idea of what it is all about. Asking opinion, like "which pickup is best" is not going to give you this understanding and only going to mislead you more. Pickup makers generally exploit this desire and lack of understanding.

I can see similar things happening here with custom wiring options. A lack of depth in understanding leads people to think that a split coil would therefor be much the same as a single coil...if an HB is split it only has one coil operating so it will be essentially a single coil pickup and you can get both...wrong! You get a good HB and a very substandard poorly designed single coil of relatively low power (eg...no real single coil pickup has a static magnet right next to it of the opposite field as you find in an HB).

Custom wiring can be fun and there are some great sounds, but "more, is not necessarily more better" as I tell myself a lot these days. A few selectable good sounds is plenty to work with...heck, a great guitar with a single responsive bridge pickup is all that you really need...in fact, EVH showed that even a so-so guitar with a faulty pickup could become one of the most coverted guitars around (look at the number of copies of the thing) and make several huge hits and countless tours as well, and he got plenty of cool sounds out of the thing!

A huge number of guitarists only ever use one selection, usually the bridge pickup for almost everything. Players like Jeff Beck who constantly change pickups work the controls are very rare if you look closely at clips. Even a SRV changes only a little with certain selections predominantly throughout a song.

I often get the feeling that the pickup is looked at as if a guitar's "engine". It is only a part of a chain of things really and the analogy is a little poor. Huge changes can occur in your playing and tone by the use of different gauge strings and set up (if you want to play like SRV you will want at least 10's and a higher stiffer action). Light strings and especially a low action make for sweep picking, tapping and shear speed, but you generally don't get the percussive attack. These kinds of things will not only dramatically change the direction and sound of the guitar (a thicker string will put out more power from any pickup for instance) and are available free or for the cost of a new set of strings.

Although I am known for my sustainer stuff around here and a bit of custom electronics stuff...I appreciate a well set up guitar a lot more and spend a fair amount of time trying to get that right "for me" and what I want to play and sound like. At the moment after quite a long absence from playing, I have been really feeling my medium action fender scale with 10-46's. For the first week I shredded what was left of my callouses and struggled to bend in tune...but it is starting to get better and now I can really appreciate the effort with a huge solid tone. A set up like this is not going to make speed and legato easy, or even possible...for that you want higher output pickups, lower action and skinny little strings with a rubbery kind of tone and feel...then I can do it...but that's why people have multiple guitars!

pete

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if you want to play like SRV you will want at least 10's and a higher stiffer action

pete

Bzzzzzzt

Should have said: If you want to play like SRV, you need to :D:DB) , and then practice even more."

It'll help a lot more than a set of new pickups.

Of course, to quote Steven Wright, "Hard work pays off in the future, laziness pays off

now. " So I'm gonna to go change my pickups . . .

Just pokin fun. B)

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I'm not really concerned with custom wiring and stuff, I just wanted to add the humbucker to the bridge. Do you think that something like this would be fine, or do you think I should put in a push/pull for coil cutting, or have an auto-split.

You will have to combine this:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wirin...g_1vol_1tone_5w

and this:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wirin...ematic=1h_1v_sp

Couldn’t find one that covers it all, sorry

I understand what you're saying here, but because I don't have any experience with this, I think I need a full schematic.

I understand the difference between coil splitting and series/parallel, but still don't fully understand the wiring part. Like I said, i'm really not concerned with having 21 different tonal options, as I really only play one or 2 on the guitar I have now. I really just want a deeper tone. I go back to school on the 2nd, and was hoping to get this done by then. Thanks

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Sure...use that SD diagram (essentially what is in your strat now) and you will get the same sounds as before, but the bridge and bridge neck will include the full HB. Interestingly, the B+M in postion 4 will not sound like it used to be a very bright almost tele tone which you might find useful anyway...you will still get the "quack" tone with the N+M at position 4.

later...if you wnat to you can get fancy with the wiring...the HB will come with the wiring diagram...but if it is a real SD pickup...the colour codes will match your linked diagram

pete

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So do it easy, just buy a HSS pickguard, and put it one with the pots and switch you have now. Wire the HB injust like a single coil, with it's coilds in series, and see what you think. If you want to "thin" the HB tone a little, you can buy a push-pull switch pot and wire it as a series parallel switch. But if you are simply looking for a deeper lead tone, you might not need to.

Start easy, and take it step by step.

Best,

Todd

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Ok, i'm ordering the pickup tomorrow. thanks for everything. Is that pretty much how the wiring in my guitar looks like right now except for the humbucker. Do I already have the .022 capacitor?

One more question about pickup positioning. I always thought that the bridge pickup is the one with the deeper tone, and the neck was the one with a "higher sound", but on my guitar the neck position has the warmest tone, and the bridge has a VERY high almost screeching sound. Could the wiring be backwards?

(the fender 5 way switch goes like this right? when the switch is pointing all the way to the neck, the neck is on, and then the bridge the bridge?)

I just always thought the tones were the other way around, but maybe i'm just wrong. Again thanks a lot

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I always thought that the bridge pickup is the one with the deeper tone, and the neck was the one with a "higher sound

It's the other way around. Compare to when you are picking/plucking the string in the middle of the neck and close to the bridge.

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I just always thought the tones were the other way around, but maybe i'm just wrong. Again thanks a lot

Yep...wrong again!

The neck pickup is the warmer sound, the bridge is brighter.

The reason is the placement along the strings length. It has to do with harmonics. As you may be aware you have harmonics on the 12th fret, but also the 7th and 5th fret...the further towards the nut the closer and higher the harmonics...you have really high ones around the 3rd and second fret. The same thing happens towards the bridge often accessed by "pinch harmonics" with the pick (as in ZZ Tops 'la grange' for instance).

So. towards the end of the string, the harmonic content is more complex and the string being sampled contains higher levels of these higher order harmonics making a brighter sound. The string typically moves less (obviously down to 0 at the bridge saddle itself), so to compensate bridge pickups are generally more powerful. A neck pickup is located generally more towards the middle of the string, so the string has more movement and so can put out a little more power (pluck a string and observe the way it vibrates and the difference around each pickup). The predominant sound being "picked up" by the neck pup is less complex and is predominantly that of the fundamental or lowest (naming note) of the harmonics. This provides a rounded more smooth or warm tone with less of the higher order harmonic content than that of the bridge.

HB's are generally warmer too, because they sample a larger area of the string compared to a single coil pickup (amongst other things) and so have less of the jangly complexity that a single coil typically "sees". Another reason is that some of the higher order complexity is canceled out along with the hum by the arrangement of the two HB coils.

...

As for pots and things...if you want a dark sound, then use the existing guitar's wiring and transfer to a suitable pickguard cut for the HB. Converting the old one is not a good idea and you may want to put it back the way it was. 250k pots are used with single coils as they tend to take the "edge" off them. However, if the pickups are too dark, change over to a 500kA for at least the volume control (you can mix and match them).

As I recall you have bout various parts like push-pull pots. If this is the case, you may as well install a 500kA as the volume pot and wire for coil splitting or whatever at a latter time. First I would hear what the guitar sounds like as there are many many options. You may instead of the common and obvious coil splitting thing find more use for a switch to turn the neck on in any position via a push pull pot. This would give you combinations like all three pickups and bridge and neck that can give you some more warm flavours. But first, listen to the guitar as is.

Also...don't be fooled into the whole "tone" capacitor mojo thing. The purpose of the tone cap is to reduce tone. Technically it drains out the high end of the signal to ground so you only hear the generally muffled bass. There is no possible way they enhance "tone". There are reasons to get fussy with tone pot tapers and cap values and such, but the effect is more about what frequencies at what rate and by how much the high end tone (where all the character lives) is reduced. The fact is that it is a rare player indeed that even uses a tone control. People who do generally do it for effect (such as EC's famed "woman tone" which is just turning the tone to zero...or people like Danny Gatton who use it as a kind of wha like effect and so was incredibly fussy about tone pot taper)...often a guitar will sound a lot better if they are completely disconnected as there is always a bit of resistance added by the pot and so a little tone drain.

I did a project which I hope will become more public in the near future that did a lot of work on a tone control. I spent hours trying to get a specific effect swapping caps and pot types and switching things. The purpose was to achieve a very specific effect (not for me mind, I rarely use a tone control myself) so that it made a kind of mmmwaaahhh kind of thing as it was turned and combined with other features were intended to be for a special effect...also to cut a specific kind of frequency, all done by ear and specific to certain pickups, placement and guitar type. To do this kind of thing, I wired as normal and just kept changing things till I got the effect I wanted, eventually using a tiny little cap value...but to do it again, I'd have to go through the same process. But it is not hard, just time consuming. For me, I don't bother as I rarely if ever touch the tone control so I am not too concerned about what it does. If you want to shape "tone"...use the active tone controls on the amp...these tend to boost instead of cut and are much more powerful in what they do.

You have to remember that we are living with the heritage of the late forties and fifties with guitars like the Les Paul (originally a jazz guitar like it's name sake player) and strat. In particular, fender used a lot of country artists to influence his sound and as a lot of them were still acoustic or electric steel, he was emulating that effect a lot. He used tone controls to give an approximation of warm jazz sounds and also, since the electric bass had yet to be invented, to emulate bass sounds. Obviously a poor imitation regardless of the tone cap!

A lot of people and guitars now come standard with a "treble bleed cap" on the volume control so that when you turn the volume down a little, it stays bright. You could use this to your advantage if you like a darker sound, by just turning the guitar down a notch and leaving it out. EVH in typical style left off the tone control and in acknoledgement of how he considered the volume control, on his signature guitar he only had a volume control but labeled it "tone" :D

Anyway...I hope this gives you a little more understanding about these things and anyone else who is reading this. Ideally though you will get yourself a book like Deyner's classic "guitar handbook" that covers this kind of thing and a lot of playing stuff in an easily accessible way. It is essential to understand a little of how things work so that you can make informed decisions and to avoid being taken advantage of by mojo pedaling hype merchants. Tone caps sellers are particularly guilty of this with "vintage" tone caps that function exactly the same as a equivalent modern version (but with less reliability) for $15 or more vs the 5-20 cents they actually cost! If you think about what these things actually do...cut tone...you will see that until you turn the tone knob, they should not have any effect and if they do, it is an unwanted one (if the tone is on ten, you don't want anything "cut")...

Hope all goes well and you are happy with the mods and choices you have made...

pete

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  • 3 weeks later...

OK, so I got the pickup and the pick guard, and soldered everything like the diagram says but I have a problem. The 2 original pickups that I kept on the guitar (the singles) work fine, but the humbucker is acting wierd.

First of all, I can BARELY hear the humbucker, to the point where when the singles are on it hurts my ears, and then I can't even hear the humbucker at all. I tried moving the pickup closer, and that didn't help at all. I guess I could move it even closer, but it's already closer to the string than the Single coils are. My dad took it took work and did it because he had a good soldering iron there, so I didn't see him actually solder it, but what could cause just the humbucker to be so quiet, but everything else fine. (if I put my amp up high enough I can hear it).

Also there is A LOT of hum with the humbucker, the same if not more than the SC's. Is this something wrong with the pickup? If my dad used too big of a capacitor (theoretically) could that be why the humbucker is so quiet? thanks

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You have a wiring fault...post the actual diagram that was used and check the guitar twice! It could be the way the HB wires have been combined or it sounds like the hot or ground are not being connected properly so you are only hearing bleed through. Hb's generally should and can be adjusted a lot closer than single coils. This symptom could be the result of a faulty or demagnetized pickup but this is most unlikely. As for the capacitor, I don't know what you mean by this, but if the bridge has it's own tone control the fault may lie there also if it has been rewired.

Even a cheap low wattage soldering iron is good enough and the use of electronic grade rosin cored solder is essential ($2)...what you very much need is a multimeter if you don't have one...this can be used to test connections and pickup values and troubleshooting is very difficult without it.

There are a bunch of troubleshooting tips but it requires the ability to try various things and hear the result, it is not enough to use a diagram and expect it necessarily to come together without any errors or problems.

Let us know what resources you have, the diagram you have settled on and what you have actually done...and what equipment you have to test things. For instance, connecting a jack directly to the bridge pickup will give you the full output of the pickup direct to the amp and assure you that there is no problem there.

pete

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well this is the diagram I used, http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wirin...=1h_2s_1v_2t_5w , as for the type of solder wire they used I don't know. My dad is in England on business for a week so I won't be able to ask him. He should have a multimeter, but i'll have to ask him when he gets back. so the problem is most likely a problem with the diagram or a bad solder point? Also my switch looks different than in the diagram, and really only seems that there is 5 solder points. Is that the same in the picture or do I have to do something else (get a new switch or something)

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It is likely the right solder if it is used for electronics. The likely problem is the different switch and possibly the way the tone controls are being placed. Really, all that needs to be done in a standard no frills thing as has been posted is that the new bridge pickup is wired in exactly as if it were the single coil bridge pickup with the original wiring...five poles seems a little odd for a switch, 8 is more common that gives you a dpdt as illustrated in the diagram or sometimes arranged in a line...this allows for 3 pickups hot in and a hot out on one side and the connecting of the tone controls to these pickups of the other.

It will no doubt be something simple, so don't panic...

pete

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