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Ace Frehley Flashing Guitar, Electronic Ideas?


billm90

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If anyone out there is still interested.

I got the holigram sticker on the LED plate. Leds are installed.

After getting this far... I think mine will look like the kid brother of aces guitar...

It looks like 'maybe' aces guitar has 3mm leds. I have 5mm. I am still not sure.

His Led's look to be spaced about 1/2" apart. Mine are about 1" apart.

It also looks like maybe someone built up the sides of his guitar instead of routing out the inside.

Meaning: It looks like his face plate is the entire size of a LP top. And sides were added to give the face plate depth. This means his guitar is actually bigger then a LP?

I will continue on till finished anyways, and I can always change it once it works. Face plate will be removable. I can make another one.

I started wiring it last night. This Sucks!!! lol.

I think it will take me a week. I spent a lot of time on it last night and learned a few things. Screwed up a bit too. This work kills my back sitting there tring to solder beween all the leads for hours. I also dont feel very relaxed when doing tons of tedious work like this. Every little thing bothers me 100x more.

I tried using a coil of enamel coated wire to link everything up. I would twist one loop around each led lead. When I soldered it, I did not get a connection like a pickup coil would do. I tried 2 gauges, gave up. I grabbed some cheesey speaker wire and started using that. I would melt off the insulation and solder it in one long strip. this took an hour to do the grounds on one section. (there are 5 sections)

I could do this with small pieces of wire pre cut and trimmed... but then I would have to solder on 2 leads to each led lead... I think I would come out to the same hour per section of time.

I had a section done and powered it up, it was dim... So I tore it out.

On the positive lead I have to solder on a resistor to each led now. I am going to be running this at 12-15v with 8-10 A batteries.

If I did add LED's every half inch, the wirring would be that much more harder.... And I would have to start over with the face plate.

I need to figure out a circuit board for the top if I ever do this again. I probably should have done this first. live and learn.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So I added extra led's to it. it probably has 220-240 leds. soldered in that many resitors. the wirring was a nightmare but I got through it.

powered it up last night and it works. flashes in sequence. it is really bright. with the house lights off, it made me feel sick. it basically is like having a strobe light on it.

I cut out an area in the back of the guitar for the batteries. 8 AA's for 12volts.

I have some clean up work to do on the body, then I have to get the wirring into the guitar, a few odds and ends and I will be done. Thank god!

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I think I am going to try to get that led flasher toy to fire some relays

Hmmm...I don't think anything electromechanical is a good idea...all those coils fire of EMI...a colck circuit will work and is better...perhaps some filter caps to ramp up the power so it is less of a dramatic on/off effect and some kind of metal shield around the circuits and wiring...but it might work out ok anyway.

With christmas crap about who knows there may be some LED array displays about that have flashing circuit or at least a lot of salvagable LED's cheap!

Pete is right... a clock circuit in astable mode will work better and it will be very easy to set up with a just 1 cap and 2 resistors, or for controllable speed, swap the resistors for a pot. The sum of the value of the two resistors, in conjunction with the cap, is the total cycle time, while the ratio of one resistor to the total resistance is the duty cycle, or percent of the whole cycle that is actual on time. We use these all the time at my workplace for flashing circuits for anticollision lights on aircraft. The NE555 timer (available at any Radio Shack) costs about $1.00 each. One of these chips can output 200mA plenty to light your guitar, up to 200 LED's at 1 mA a piece. I know this current seems very low, but even high power LED's (the ones that will blind you if you look at them directly) can give off a decently bright light with this amount of current. If that is not enough, the simplest way to give them more power is to run the output from the timer chip into the base of an NPN transistor and run the LED string off the collector. You can cascade timing circuits as well, so one string would have one timing and another a different timing, so what you'd end up with is a bunch of random blinking, much like the old computer stations on old TV shows like the 70's Star Trek.

I used the NE555 in a recent experiment with audio, where the timer switches the guitar signal on/off very quickly, and the duty cycle is controlled via a 100K pot. If interested, click on the link in my sig and check out "helicopter Concept Experiments 2". Obviously not exactly the same application, but it goes to show that this chip is extremely versatile. At any rate, google the NE555 and you will find literally hundreds of tutorials on its use.

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On the positive lead I have to solder on a resistor to each led now. I am going to be running this at 12-15v with 8-10 A batteries.

Why are you soldering a resistor to each LED. One current limiting resistor per LED string would be fine, no?

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On the positive lead I have to solder on a resistor to each led now. I am going to be running this at 12-15v with 8-10 A batteries.

Why are you soldering a resistor to each LED. One current limiting resistor per LED string would be fine, no?

It can be done several different ways. 1 resistor per 3 leds. etc...

The main issue. I have is I got the led's that came with the resitor to knock it down from 12v.

By putting on on each led I was able to tie the resitor wires along a line for the positive. On the negative I stripped back a section of wire and used 1 strand across the whole negative, wrapping it around each led - pole.

I tried using less resitors at first, and the led's were real dull, so I decided enough messing around and did one per led. I will post a pic later.

As for the electronics controlling this. I am using an IC chip. I am unsure what one it is. I got it in a hobby kit. It works off pressing a momentary button. each press plays the sequence faster. holding it changes the sequence. It runs off a 9v.

this runs in to a amplifier for lack of a better term. the chip tells the amp when to allow a connection on the negative and allows the external power of 12 to be triggered. It is a very small set of citcuits, so it makes me happy as far as fitting it in the guitar. I had to do a few drill press cuts into to get the stuff to sit flush. I am painting the body for a few days, then I will assemble it. Hopefully I can figure out how to get a vid up.

Edited by billm90
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So it sounds like you are running your LED's in parallel, which will be good if one dies, they all won't. However, tif there are variations in the forward voltage drop of each LED, there will be noticeable variation in brightness or some may not light because the current will take the path of least resistance (the LED with the lowest forward voltage drop. What our designers tend to do is, on a light with 24 individual LED's for example, make 3 parallel strings of 8 series LED's. Each of the 3 parallel strings needs only 1 resistor for current limiting. This would be your most uniform setup IMO and reduces part count. Regardless, it sounds like your setup is coming along very nicely and it will be interesting to see some pics when it is all set, maybe even some video? :D

If you don't mind me asking, where did you come across that variable timer circuit?

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This is the controller

http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=693

here is the so called amplifier/ or output driver as I should have called it

http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=451

And I did run the led's in parallel. Mainly did it because it was quick to wire. but as you pointed out, if one dies, I still have the rest.

For about 30 seconds I thought about running less resistors, after a first attempt at wirring failed. well it worked, it just took way too long. so I took it apart and added extra leds, and then set them all in uniform, then wired them up as fast as I could. The old saying "learn as you go" defently applied here. :D

Edited by billm90
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DSCF2185-1.jpg

DSCF2180-1.jpg

DSCF2176-1.jpg

Something worth bringing up.

I have from 180-200ish leds. I have not counted yet for sure. I used 250ish, but removed some from the first go round and they have glue on them, so they are sitting out.

I read an article that ace has 700 halogen bulbs.... I could not imagine trying to set that up.

I wish I had more... I could build another light plate later I guess. I think I will get some prewired led strips, and try that if I think I need more some day. maybe the 3mm size.

Edited by billm90
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it would be great if you upload a video after building your flasher!

btw, here's an article (snippet? i don't know the word) from the guy who did the original flasher:

http://jerobison.blogspot.com/2007/11/ace-...of-my-kiss.html

he has asperger, he has a book, and FWIK, Kiss has a big section on his book

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it would be great if you upload a video after building your flasher!

btw, here's an article (snippet? i don't know the word) from the guy who did the original flasher:

http://jerobison.blogspot.com/2007/11/ace-...of-my-kiss.html

he has asperger, he has a book, and FWIK, Kiss has a big section on his book

I will defently put up a vid, even if I have to link it to myspace or something.

I am currently putting clear coat over the silver paint.

then I have a few more hurdles.

The part I am dreading. the volume pot. I have the acrylic plate cut out, I would have to line everything up and see if I think I can do it.

electronics space is pretty used up, so I may need to put one more cut into the body for a pot.

Basically the pot needs to sit recessed into the newly routed body, a hole cut through the light plate, and a hole through the acrylic. they all have to line up perfectly. This is where I feel mistakes will be made.

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That looks pretty impressive...do you get any noise from the switching of the lights into the amp? I'm impressed with the perseverance on this one...it certainly looks the business :D

pete

Thanks Pete.

yes I do get noise, and tried my hardest to block it.

I put it all together, and played it. I got a ticking sound that changes based on what set of light patterns are set.

However I cannot hear it when playing.

I tore it down and tried to shelid everything.

I have foil tape over the electronics, the pickup pocket, and I even tried to foil the back of the led panel using tape to insulate. I put a shielded pickup in it, and tried to foil the bottom of it too. The noise still comes through.

I am playing through a digital effects unit, and the tick is opeining the noise gate. So when just sitting there with the guitar muted, you can hear the tick and it openes the noise gate, as soon as I play a chord, no audible tick.

I sat down with the pickup unscrewed from the guitar, if I move it 2 inches up abover the body, the tick is gone.

If I set the pickup on top "anywhere" there are leds, it picks up the tick.

However, if I set it on the neck, lined up flush with the edge, the noise is gone.

I dont really know how to get rid of it.

Any ideas?

Edited by billm90
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Hahahaha....

You are misunderstanding where the tick is coming from...

As the lights change there are massive jots of current causing an AC signal...a burst of electromagnetic energy.

Foil shielding won't block it, it can even make it worse sometimes. You need something to stop the EMI (elctromagnetic interferance) the foil only stops RFI (radio frequency interference)

The reason moving the pickup further away is that this is the most effective way of helping.

The sustainer has the same problem...if the driver is too close to the pickup you get EMI...that's why it needs to be near the neck. In my passive/active sustainer switching you get a pop when you switch it off...but not if the guitar is sustaining at the time.

Unfortunately, try as I might I could never completely solve the problem completely. That was the only misgivings that I have had with this kind of thing and I think I mentioned it. The only thing that will stop EMI is going to be magnetic materials...but it is not so easy as putting things in a metal box as eddy currents can be generated that you will hear as well...

But still...it does look pretty cool!

pete

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Hahaha, yes you warned me about the noise... I will try my best to figure it out.

Thanks for the info on the foil. Glad I am done going in that direction.

I think all radio waves have been blocked. :D

I have a few little things I want to try out. hopefully somehting cool happens.

It kind of reminds me of spinal tab, nigels wireless.

as for the sustainer... I picked up some coil wire. I was thinking about trying it. I just dont know what guitar to do it on. I have another strat I was going to piece back into an electric (was nylon with fishman bridge but it breaks strings) That is the only one I can access the coils on. would a 1 watt amp make a good driver?

I have read over some of the sustainer threads, but there are a few of them and they are monster huge.

Edited by billm90
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That is awesome. Great job!!!

Regarding the ticking, here are a couple of ideas...

Look into "mu" metals for shielding. This is EMI shielding, but may be quite expensive to cover the area in question.

Is the circuit entirely independent of the guitar circuit or are you sharing a ground? If yes, look into optocouplers to create a pseudo ground.

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That is awesome. Great job!!!

Regarding the ticking, here are a couple of ideas...

Look into "mu" metals for shielding. This is EMI shielding, but may be quite expensive to cover the area in question.

Is the circuit entirely independent of the guitar circuit or are you sharing a ground? If yes, look into optocouplers to create a pseudo ground.

I have the grounds completly seperate.

When I get a free sec here at work I am going to google EMI shielding.

Thanks for the comments guys. I am kind of proud of how it turned out. I have to say it looks much better in person, you can see the holigram change, and the reflection of the acrylic top.

Half way through, while it was very ugly looking, I have to say I had a few moments when I questioned what I was doing. I am glad I took it apart half way through, modified it (added more lights), and finished it.

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Thanks for the comments guys. I am kind of proud of how it turned out. I have to say it looks much better in person, you can see the holigram change, and the reflection of the acrylic top.

Half way through, while it was very ugly looking, I have to say I had a few moments when I questioned what I was doing. I am glad I took it apart half way through, modified it (added more lights), and finished it.

You should be proud!

Unfortunately, exotic metals and stuff are unlikely to solve the problem. All the wires are effecdtively making a giant AC coil...when it changes that is where you get that "tick". Maybe, if you held the lights on except when you are playing it might work...but shielding is likely to be impossible

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I did a quick look around on the net, and found two methods that probably wont apply to what we have going on with EMI.

Decoupling capacitor?

and a choke?

Do you have any idea about these methods. I am in unknown waters with the electronics now. :D

Edited by billm90
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I took it apart last night and played with the EMI.

PSW is spot on of course.

there may not be much I can do to it.

The sequencer makes the noise, and the led's alone make the noise (removed from the guitar). The on/off is the trigger.

I tried it on tons of pickups (shielded les paul, emg active, single coils). put the led board against a few of my other guitars. nothing changed of course.

Put the pickup against the driver with the LED board sitting a guitar away, EMI in that.

I read a bunch on the internet, tried a few goofy things , nothing worked.

Made a foil shield over the top of another guitar, grounded it, put the leds against it. tried a metal plate. I have a dc motor I tried to sheild from. Wrapped a pickup in foil shield tape completly just to see what would happen... nothing.

Removed all the shielding I put in the guitar, nothing changed.

Found a web page where some guy used mu metal on a old record player to silence the motor noise from the needle pickup. I found that interesting. He put the mu metal on the turntable, the record would sit on top of it. I think he used some fabric inbetween to further block EMI.

Found some page where a guy tried to make an EMI shield for a computer sound card. he used 2 layers of metal mesh screen, with anti-static plastic packaging material inbetween. he said his noise loss was minimal.

Found tons of pages on shielding computers from EMI (metal plates/paint), and I found some pages used RF and EMI kind of like the same thing. I know RF noise, the stereo in my old vette had an amp in each speaker, and I would pickup one someone by my house using a CB radio when I drove up my street in the front passengerside speaker.

this would probably be a waste of time, but what if the led plate was made of metal/copper/mu metal whatever.

Would shielding the + and - on the led's wiring do anything? Like a pickup semi coaxial wire.

what if I had a small amount of voltage going to the leds at all times, to make them always kind of dim? would this reduce any noise from the switching?

And something else I have been wondering. what would happen if I crossed the grounds on the LED driver and the Amp ground?

Currently they are two totally seperate circuits.

I have seen lots of reference to using copper tape to block EMI. PSW has always been on top of this. Are these web pages just crossing RF and EMI terms as they please?

For the last 24 hours or so, all I have been thinking about is how to sheild EMI.

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