dpm99 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I've been trying to figure this out for a while, but just can't get it down. I use router rails to thickness small pieces of wood, but I'm trying to get four pieces of a sandwich body really flat, and I'm having some trouble. I have to thickness an acoustic top too. Ideally, I need a drum sander. But my workshop all fits in a cabinet, and has to go down a flight of stairs any time I want to work. My latest idea involves clamping router rails to wood at both ends, securing it all to the work surface, and moving the board from underneath while the router stays stationary, kind of like you would with an overarm pin router. My fear (obviously) is that it wouldn't be very safe. Then again, if I clamp it down really well with a lot of clamps, it might be ok. Really there would be less than 1/4" of bit exposed below the rails most of the time, so even if it tried to suck up my hands, I'm not sure they could get through the small open space to the bit. Here's my plan. What do you think? Thanks, Dave P.S. The illustration doesn't reveal this, but I'd clamp the whole thing to the table too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotYou Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) Thicknessing with a router is never fun. I've heard of others trying it and I've attempted it myself, with horrible results. I don't have a planer myself, but I've been getting good results with a drill press and forstner bits. I got the idea when I saw another luthier using them before to remove a top for a customer on a solidbody. It leaves shallow holes in the wood, but you can get them out with a belt sander pretty easily. You just have to make sure to leave room for them. You'll still have to plane or sand the wood yourself, but this is a quick and cheap way to thickness. I had to shave off about .5" off a set of wings a couple days ago and used that process. I took pictures because I thought it looked cool: Edited February 24, 2009 by NotYou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foil1more Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 See if you can find a local lumber yard that will do it. I took a piece to a local place and had it planed down a for $3. Depending on where you go, they might have a big thickness sander for thinner stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 You don't say how much you need to take off, but when I've needed to do this, I've reached for the handplanes. If you've taken the time to tune your planes, and have a little experience using them under your belt, it's not a bad way to do it. Now I wouldn't be taking off huge amounts this way (at that point it makes more sense to look into resawing, but if you don't have access to a bandsaw, that's not an option) but it's doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 With all the time and effort you have wasted thinking about this router setup you could have bought and learned to use a hand plane. Not that hard to use. Something you can use for your entire life. Hand Plane +1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Ok guys, you got me. I don't know how to use my plane properly. I have one, but I just make messes with it. Fortunately, all the time I've wasted was at work. Thanks for the tough love. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 +1 again for hand plane or if it just a minor amount of levelling a large enough piece of flat material with a large sheet of coarse grit sandpaper (same as they use on floor sanders) taped down on it and start sliding! Using a router for things like this is never fun unless you have a purpose built jig which is absolutely true and level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) +1 Hand Plane... I know this is obvious... but I built one and it worked great. Router Planar Thickness Thing Edited February 24, 2009 by RestorationAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Herr Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 If you have a drill press, then a Wagner Safe-T-Planer gives good results. It essentually uses the drill press as an overhead router. The cutter is designed so that it is almost impossible to get your hand cut. If you only have a benchtop drill press, and can't lock the quill or dial in the table height, it is hard to adjust. You need to take light passes like a planer, rather than the router, wich can take alot of meat (athough narrow strip) off in one pass. I have had fairly good results with a similar router setup, although it is worse than a planer or safe-t planer, it certainly will be less work to clean up than using a forstener bit. If you make sure the bit is square to the surface and sharp on the bottom face, it has worked well for me. There are also special router planer bits. I hear they leave a better surface finish, maybe I will splurge someday. With all the time and effort you have wasted thinking about this router setup you could have bought and learned to use a hand plane. Not that hard to use. Something you can use for your entire life. Hand Plane +1. I disagree: It would take longer to buy a plane new or used, and set it up properly than it would to build this jig and use it. That being said, for minor stock removal, I would reach for the plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 i wouldnt be without my router thickessing jig... but then i dont have any massive thicknessing tools and have to make do with what i can get till i do its particularly usefull for routing through necks to an even thickness when the neck and fretboard are in the way, and it packs pretty flat whch is a big bonus is a small workshop its nothing fancy the first version was wooden rails but they did bow slightly if you tried to make it too wide the new version was knocked together with steel offcuts by a friend and works perfectly. its also fully adjustable for subtle angles - albeit its very heavy and adjustments take time and care to get right cant find a full picture but here it is in use taking a neck tenon down to the surrounding wood notice its two steel L sections either side of the body bolted down to a scrap of kitchen worktop., the router has two thick steel bars as the rails... it is bolted directly to them and the whole router/steel rails assembly slides over the (regularly oiled) steel L sections. Its heavy to use but very accurate (unlike that neck pocket) the body is stuck down with double sided tape but also had a couple of scraps of wood wedging it in place for extra security Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_player Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I tried a stationary router just like you are thinking of and it din't work good at all the bit kept catching the wood and trying to pull it up so it just made a mess of the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I tried a stationary router just like you are thinking of and it din't work good at all the bit kept catching the wood and trying to pull it up so it just made a mess of the wood. I can see why it might do that. I'm glad I asked before I moved forward. Thanks everyone. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 If you want to use a router, Wez' setup is great. As mentioned, trying to use a stationary router on the top often trys to lift the workpiece. One way to counteract this would be to mount featherboards in the appropriate places, but then the device gets more complicated than one where the router moves. However, as he mentions, using wooden rails, you can run into problems with the rails bowing if you're crossing large distances. I was just reading the current issue of Fine Woodworking over lunch break, and the back cover is a reproduction of an antique tea table. The top is fairly ornate, with sweeps and curves, and molding that also forms quite a lip at the edge. Rather than being mitred and attached molding however, the piece was carved out of a 1" thick board of mahogany. The inside cover shows how the piece was made - the author use forstner bits to hog out most of the wood in the interior, and then used a router on a sled to level the inside to it's final depth. Pretty much the same thing you're looking at doing, except the edges of the table that would eventually be carved into molding were what supported the router sled rather than extra rails at either end of the piece. The width of the table appeared quite large, and the picture they showed of his router sled was a different take on it, that seems so obvious, I'm surprised I hadn't seen it before. Rather than bolting the router right to a couple of pieces or long plate/sheet, which can bow if they're not stiff enough, or raising the bit too high from the workpiece if they're made thick enough to be suitably stiff, his whole router sled was constructed like a ladder, out of what appeared to be rather substainal pieces of timber. The router was then mounted to this sled inside the square cavity created by the two outer rails and two of the "legs" of the "ladder". I assume that a plate of metal, plexi, or sheet stock (MDF/Ply) was mounted to the underside of these rails (perhaps rabbeted in from the bottom to keep the lower surface flush and allow the bit to run right up against the supports that the sled rides on) and the router base was bolted to this. He appeared to be using this sled with quite a large router. While this method makes a sturdier sled, it does become quite large. The only major issues I can think of with this method is making sure that the wood that comprises the "ladder" is true along all dimensions on the bottom - building on a level surface and using stable and well jointed wood should address this. The rails at either end that the router rides on should also be true. I like that this design moves the stabilizing portions of the sled frame above the level of the base router - the only additional material between the router and the material to be removed is the thickness of the plate the router screws to, which can be kept fairly this as it just needs to be large enough to span the base of the router and be attached to the surrounding framework of the sled. Sorry this was quite rambling - I'm just wrapping up a 12 hour night shift. I'm in just the right headspace where I looked at that picture hand an "aha!" moment... I can post a scan of that picture if it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I can't quite get a picture in my head of the sled you're describing. If you could post a pic I'd be very interested to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewarner Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 +1 Handplane. Very worthwhile to take the time and learn to sharpen and use a good jack plane. +1 Router Sled if you need to remove a lot of material and don't have an actual planer. Here is a pick of my setup being used to thickness some rough-sawn basswood. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Herr Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I tried a stationary router just like you are thinking of and it din't work good at all the bit kept catching the wood and trying to pull it up so it just made a mess of the wood. Try one of two things: double-stick tape it to something with more stiffness--> was the piece you router thicknessed thin? Although this is a totally different methof a Wgner safe-t-planer has a mechanism to stop this lift and is rellly good for thickessing thin stuff. As for wood rails bowing: You can make the rails just as stiff as steel angle iron, the vertical pieces just need to be taller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I can't quite get a picture in my head of the sled you're describing. If you could post a pic I'd be very interested to see it. Not the best picture, but it gets the idea across. I've used a sled similar to the one that Dave posts pictures of - but I feel like this design could be made quite large if need be. For the pieces of lumber we're using, it's probably not an issue, but I'm always a fan of over-designing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Oh, I get it now. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I can't quite get a picture in my head of the sled you're describing. If you could post a pic I'd be very interested to see it. [Picture deleted.] Not the best picture, but it gets the idea across. I've used a sled similar to the one that Dave posts pictures of - but I feel like this design could be made quite large if need be. For the pieces of lumber we're using, it's probably not an issue, but I'm always a fan of over-designing things. Wow. That's an awesome sled design. I actually already use router rails. They're metal, and they work great on small pieces. They're just not as long as I need them to be. They were given to me with the admission that they were a bit short. That being said, I did some reading and watched some YouTube videos last night. Then I spend an hour or two really trying to tune up my plane. It's a cheap one from Home Depot. By the end of the night, I was still just mucking up my wood. Then I thought about it a little at work today, and figured out a few things I could tweak to make it work better. It worked. Hello beautiful shavings. Hello large flat surface. I think I'm starting to love my hand plane. +1 Hand Plane from me too. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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