Crusader Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I was in a guitar shop one day and they had on display a Fender neck that was cut down the centre (trussrod and everything) I was greatly inspired by this and thats the way I do mine (after a great deal of experimentation I have to add) I'm even thinking of doing it this way on my next ventures which will have Rosewood or Ebony fretboards. I figure I already know how to do it and it might even be better for sound as there would be a solid joint between the fretboard and neck Any comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead28 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I use the 2 way, welded-nut truss rods from LMII, which require a simple flat bottom channel under the fretboard. I've never wanted to bother with a Fender style rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I use 2-way rods... Started with Stew-Mac's Hot Rod and now use Allied's (they're lower profile). Route a simple flat-bottom channel, pop it in, and done. (Well, that's simplifying it, but it's almost that easy.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I use 2-way rod from Warmoth because I can make a really thin wizard style necks with them. Rick500 could you post a link to the Allied trussrod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 http://www.alliedlutherie.com/truss_rods.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Ross Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I use 2-way rods... Started with Stew-Mac's Hot Rod and now use Allied's (they're lower profile). Route a simple flat-bottom channel, pop it in, and done. (Well, that's simplifying it, but it's almost that easy.) +1 Actually I just got 6 of the Allied rods, but haven't tried them yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Two-way rods from Ebay. I don't remember the seller, but very good quality, great price. I bought one to test out and try and break, and it did not break easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotYou Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 A had a truss rod that came from Stew mac that wasn't set up properly, so I was going to take it to the shop and see if I could fix it. I left it on top of my Jeep and didn't realize until I got there. I found it in the middle of the road getting ran over by cars. I retrieved it and it worked perfectly. Getting ran over by countless cars fixed the f***er. The PVC cover was all chewed up, so I just used it on a build for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmth Builder Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hot rods, the way fender does it just seems overly complicated to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) I honestly can't remember the last time I encountered a severe enough backbow that required a 2-way truss rod. And I can't even count how many guitars I set up, repair and restore every year. Considering the expense I realized that they are no longer necessary in my build projects. So I'm now manufacturing my own 1- way truss rods, using 3/16" steel rod, brass bell nuts (for adjusting), drilled out and tapped, and 3/4" long - 3/8" bolt sections (for anchoring), also drilled and tapped. Its all thats really needed for a good playing guitar if its made right. I can make half a dozen truss rods for less than 5 bucks in less than an hour. http://www3.telus.net/Alsplace/Truss%20Rod/ Edited February 27, 2009 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood is good Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I would never go without a 2 way. Going from 9s to 11s in string guage, it bows the neck a heck of a lot more than you woudl think. Even a multi lam bubinga/ walnut neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 the way fender does it just seems overly complicated to me.But how else would you do a solid maple neck? I know some manufacturers have a maple fretboard on a maple neck, but to me that just seems crazy. I like the idea of the frets going straight into the neck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Typical Fender cost-cutting/less-steps-in-production technique :-D I've always mounted from the top under a fingerboard, although I would perhaps mount one from the back and fillet it if I was making a complete rosewood or ziricote neck, and fillet with a light wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead28 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I would never go without a 2 way. Going from 9s to 11s in string guage, it bows the neck a heck of a lot more than you woudl think. Even a multi lam bubinga/ walnut neck. But a one way rod would take care of that. That being said, I always use 2 ways also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 ...although I would perhaps mount one from the back and fillet it if I was making a complete rosewood...neck... Now thats something I would like to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I was initially turned off by the price of two-way rods. But I found a supplier where I can get them for less than the cost of basic one-way rods, not the welded flat bar 2-piece, but the straight round bar rods. I just wish I could remember who it was. I have them in my favorites at home, but that does me no good here at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugg Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'm with Southpa, single action rods set deep in a straight channel only. Not just for ease and cost, not even because they work better, but because only single action rods actually balance string tension as opposed to applying bending pressure to the wood. I think the only reason curved channels and double action rods and such are used so much these days is because luthiers, even some good ones, don't take the time to think about how a truss rod actually works. The cross section of a neck is roughly a D or C shape with the greater mass towards the flat side. The round side is more easily compressed lengthwise which is what a deep set single action rod does. This balancing of the tension allows the wood of the neck to resist the string pull in its strongest natural way, which is directly down the grain rather than being torqued sideways as with curved channels or two way rods. If you've made a few necks from scratch and tried both methods, you'll find that you can even hear the difference. A single action rod makes a more lively and resonant neck. Plus, single action rods require much less torque at the adjusting nut so they strip less, or never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wood is good Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) I was initially turned off by the price of two-way rods. But I found a supplier where I can get them for less than the cost of basic one-way rods, not the welded flat bar 2-piece, but the straight round bar rods. I just wish I could remember who it was. I have them in my favorites at home, but that does me no good here at work. How much were they? Doeringers sells them for 10.25$ http://www.doeringerguitars.com/servlet/th...8-Guitar/Detail Oh, thats probably not it. You said it wasnt a welded 2 piece. These ones are still good though. Edited February 27, 2009 by wood is good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 single action rods require much less torque at the adjusting nut so they strip less, or never. Thats why I use brass adjusting nuts. If anything is going to strip it will be the brass before the steel. So the nut is accessible and easily replaced. I've used the pre-fabbed 2-way truss rods, too. They work ok but I still consider it a bit overkill. Easy to install tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Exactly the reason I use them....i'm not hugely tooled up, and my workspace and time are at a premium so I like simple, elegant and effective solutions. I'd really like to A/B a two-way expanding type rod vs. a one-way compression rod in identical necks, as the "resonant neck" idea sounds like a worthwhile investigation. Has anyone got any further information on this comparison (a fair one would be great!) to expand on this? Cheers Dugg - great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereordinary Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I do mine like Southpa too. It's almost eerie how similar our tool set is even. But I tend to break taps or the rod or otherwise ruin my anchor nuts a lot, so I can't make so many so fast. The only thing is I buy the Fender-style adjustment nuts from Stew-Mac when I'm doing Fender-style necks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I do mine like Southpa too. It's almost eerie how similar our tool set is even. But I tend to break taps or the rod or otherwise ruin my anchor nuts a lot, so I can't make so many so fast Same here, but I can't believe Southpa makes his own nuts!! I bought a bunch of Fender and Gibson style nuts from Zenith Music in ~ 1995 After doing one Fender-style finish at the headstock I got the bug and did them all that way. Makes a showpiece of it rather than covering it up. So I've got plenty of Gibson nuts! The only thing is I buy the Fender-style adjustment nuts from Stew-Mac when I'm doing Fender-style necks. Not asking any trade secrets but do you router from the back for a solid maple neck? Just wondering, how did you know what to do? After having a Strat with a maple neck I decided thats what I want for my project guitar (which turned out to be seven so far LOL) I couldn't find anything in Libraries on the shape or how deep to make the curve so I did an enormous amount of R&D using my Strat and Bass as guinea-pigs The various things I did included Loosening the trussrod off and putting on four 54 guage strings and crank them up so the neck bent as much as possible. Then I traced the curve onto paper I also did the opposite, with no strings attached I cranked the trussrod up as tight as possible and traced the curve onto paper I made a test-neck out of radiata pine and did all sorts of measuring, checking things over and over again before coming up with a plan Its been about ten or twelve years now and they haven't shown any signs of bad design, except one The "M4" trussrod curve was too shallow and it didn't work. I routered out the filler piece, glued in a strip of Maple and re-did it. Now that particular guitar has a 1/4 inch filler piece instead of 3/16 I'll have to dig up some photos & put them up, but I have to scan them first (how BORING!) I did a lot of home-made stuff which I look at now and think "What the?" But I still can't believe Southpa makes his own nuts - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 You really really can't believe he makes his own nuts can you? It makes sense about making nuts out of brass to save on stripping the rod threads though - a very practical and forward-thinking idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I can't believe Southpa makes his own nuts!! Its not like I'm running my own smelter here at home. All I do is buy some 3/8" brass bell nuts, drill 'em out and then tap them through. The rest is making sure they are accessible for a 3/8" socket once the trussrod is installed in the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Reading G&L website, they use 2 way rods in their necks, and cut them in half, route for the rod, install the rod and glue it back together. If you have decent skills, the glue line would be nearly invisible. I use 2 way rods because they're quick and easy. I also like to be able to correct a back bow. I used to work at fender corona and we tossed a LOT of necks with a backbow that couldnt be fixed. When some evil giant corporation is paying for the wood, I dont care. When *I* pay for the wood, I dont want to have to use it for firewood. We also broke a LOT of truss rods. At fender, fixing a backbow, means putting the neck on woodblocks with a 1/2 ton press in the middle of the neck and firmly "persuading" the neck flat. Did you know walnut blows out before maple? I know for a FACT- Done it many a time. Once in a while I broke the maple, but flatsawm maple is so flimsy... It didnt happen often. No thanks, I'll stick with a 2 way rod. I have access to a welder, I should just buy some taps and make my own. Edited March 3, 2009 by postal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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