Thickening Up My Tone

[Cam]

I've been playing around with my rig for a while trying to thicken up my sound. At the moment my rig consists of an alder bodied strat with cheap pickups (Going to install some Bare Knuckle Nailbombs in the next few weeks) into a Boss ME30 into in Epi Valve Junior stack. The Nailbombs should thicken up the sound a bit and get me a better tone then the $10 HBs in there now. Although I'm still looking to thicken things up a bit and I'm thinking about some sort of Mid Boost? Which comes to my next problem, how do I go about doing this?

Thanks in advance!

[John Abbett]

Have you tried thicker strings? Switching from 8's to 11's will thicken your tone considerably.

Note: If you switch you will need to re-set up your guitar..

-J

[Cam]

I've got 9-46 at the moment and I've tried the next size up strings but I didn't like them. So that rules out thicker strings.

[Samba Pa Ti]

treble boosters into the epiphone valve series are really nice, i expect a blues overdrive or somthing similar would get a similar sound.

ive got an epiphone valve standard and find it sounds crap without a booster pedal infront, its not bad but its like the amp has no balls if the tubes arnt driven.

[NotYou]

Have you tried thicker strings? Switching from 8's to 11's will thicken your tone considerably.

Note: If you switch you will need to re-set up your guitar..

-J

That would be my advice. Even going from 10's to 11's will make a big difference. Bigger strings aren't as easy to play, but the fat tone can be really worth it.

[Samba Pa Ti]

Have you tried thicker strings? Switching from 8's to 11's will thicken your tone considerably.

Note: If you switch you will need to re-set up your guitar..

-J

That would be my advice. Even going from 10's to 11's will make a big difference. Bigger strings aren't as easy to play, but the fat tone can be really worth it.

what if you had say 4 guitars with every string gauge and they all sounded weak through the same amp setup ? where to go from there ? this is a problem ive had.

[kpcrash]

Then it's time to start playing with pedals and pots IMO. You'd be surprised at the subtle difference switching caps can make as well. I say this as these are cheaper options than buying a new amp. When not playing bass, I run through a Fender 210R - NOT well known as a fat ass amp, but I can't buy a JCM right now and really needed a good clear channel... and it was relatively inexpensive, easy to loop in, etc., etc.

I have 19 guitars, one string size 10's - although not as "easy" as 9's made a big difference

Also, switched pots to full-size good quality for vol/tone and on main guitars, converted .0022 caps to .0047.

On my Strat, installed Fender Noiseless SCN pups, other main guitars use Dimarzio D100. the rest are a combination of everything from EMG to GFS.

I say this as the main guitars produce a rather consistent mid-fat tone with subtle differences due to construction.

As for pedals -> Dunlop Wah->DS-1->BD-2(Keeley Mod + Phat)->MT-2->GE-7->AMP

It's a rather simple rig, but truly gets the job done. The modded BD really made a huge difference. I can plug a stock Washburn in and make it sound respectable I'm just raising these as points to consider and in no way trying to state this is the only way - just that I was in a similar situation and this is what worked and there's lot of shrapnel (sarcasm) hanging on the wall as a result of these experiments and I'm not done yet.

Bass is a whole different story.....

[Muzz]

I've been playing around with my rig for a while trying to thicken up my sound. At the moment my rig consists of an alder bodied strat with cheap pickups (Going to install some Bare Knuckle Nailbombs in the next few weeks) into a Boss ME30 into in Epi Valve Junior stack. The Nailbombs should thicken up the sound a bit and get me a better tone then the $10 HBs in there now. Although I'm still looking to thicken things up a bit and I'm thinking about some sort of Mid Boost? Which comes to my next problem, how do I go about doing this?

Thanks in advance!

hey Cam, your good quality pups that you are getting will make a big difference. If your amp has an effects loop keep your eye out for a good valve preamp that you can plug into your loop return. These can get varied and phat sounds and are lots of fun, go well in your quest for tone nirvana

[Drak]

I think the very heart of the problem is the basic setup: the Alder body.

That wood is designed far better for Fender-ish tones.

I would recommend (hey, you ARE on a guitar builder forum after all) to build yourself a Mahogany body, cap it if you want to, that will give you what you're looking for.

That is going right to the heart of the problem and solving it at it's core.

I've seen guys for years spend money trying to solve a problem by trying to band-aid the issue with pickups and pedals and not address the real issue, which, in your case, I'm guessing is the Alder body, which typically isn't going to give a lot of balls.

Also, I don't know the used market in Australia, but I would recommend buying some USED pickups and trying a few out, as I understand Bare Knuckles are pretty expensive.

I'm saying throwing Big Money into 1 set of pickups hoping for the best is somewhat of a crapshoot, especially if the real problem isn't in the pickups themselves.

A lot of people think the more money you throw at a problem, the better guarantee you have of solving it, which can be an expensive mistake a lot of the time.

Maybe a pickup swap will do it, but Alder is Alder, and Alder typically isn't used for meaty ballsy guitars.

[Tim37]

if ya got one try some reverb not enough to hear the echo just a touch it will kinda fatten up your sound thats pretty much how i run the reverb on all my amps set very low if ya can tell theres reverb then your using too much.

[soapbarstrat]

I think the very heart of the problem is the basic setup: the Alder body.

That wood is designed far better for Fender-ish tones.

but Alder is Alder, and Alder typically isn't used for meaty ballsy guitars.

If we're going to suggest the subtle difference between 2 hard woods, then you could also say the single output tube amp isn't going to be meaty enough either.

What's Brad Gillis' old red strat made of ? Way into meaty territory. Mattias Jabbs of the Scorpions has often used an alder strat with bridge bucker. Heck I could make a long list of others.

And what about the speakers in those epi cabs ? I have no experience with those particular epi speakers, but they play a huge part. Are the cabs closed back ?

Outside of an amp, speaker, effects change, the pickup swap should make a significant difference.

[Drak]

You can believe what you want, but I have a set of 5 identical guitars built by me, 4 Alder bodies, one Mahogany body, everything else being about as identical as possible less pickups, and the 4 Alder bodies, except for pickup differences, all sound pretty similar, and the Mahogany body sounds completely different. Ballsier, thicker, meatier, more rock.

If you want to be argumentative about it, go right ahead, I don't really care one way or the other, but I live with the reality of the truth, I can go home and pick them up and the difference is completely obvious and not even close.

But you believe whatever you want, OK by me.

[soapbarstrat]

.... I live with the reality of the truth,....

Oh ok Drak, I lied. All those alder strats with the bridge buckers on countless records (I'm thinking mainly 80's metal, you know Lynch, Di Martini, Vito Bratta, etc) just didn't cut it for a meaty tone. Man were those guys dumb, considering a meaty tone is what everyone was going for.

Yeah, change the body wood, certainly easier than a pickup swap or adding effects.

Now, this is probably all too argumentative for ya, but from my side it's all about ' hold on, let's not get carried away '.

My main point is that if his rig doesn't have what it takes to make alder sound meaty, it doesn't have what it takes to make other woods sound meaty either.

Edited July 1, 2010 by soapbarstrat

[Cam]

And what about the speakers in those epi cabs ? I have no experience with those particular epi speakers, but they play a huge part. Are the cabs closed back ?

The cab has a 12" Eminence Lady Luck Speaker and has an open back with mesh covering up the opening.

Drak, I can see where your coming from with building a new body and I could easily make a new mahogany body for the guitar in a day or two, but my main concern is the pickups. At the time I built the guitar I didn't have much money so I only spent $20 for a set of some cheap no name pickups off eBay. So I want them to go first, and don't mind spending all that money on BKP, and as you said in another thread, if you don't like them, you can put them up on eBay and get most of your money back.

I'm also going to be modding my Valve Junior head in the next few weeks to get it sounding a bit more to my tastes, and also add in bass, treble, gain controls along with a bright switch and a master volume which should get me closer to the tone I'm looking for.

[Samba Pa Ti]

hmm just thinking, have you tried a tube screamer through it ?

thats another pedal that will drive the tubes, i still think a mid/treb boost would do wonders. theres a few demos of the epi with tube screamers/treble boosters on youtube.

[Drak]

My main point is that if his rig doesn't have what it takes to make alder sound meaty, it doesn't have what it takes to make other woods sound meaty either

No, your right, I know my suggestion is pretty radical if a simple pickup change will do the trick, I've just seen so many guys try to band-aid a bad guitar over the years when if they did the math and looked at the basic setup they would have seen the problem, but spent hundreds of dollars on pickups, effects, etc., when the basic guitar wouldn't really do what they wanted it to do from the get.

But I agree, it's a very radical approach and most likely unnecessary.

PS, I wasn't downing Alder bodied Strats at all, I'm building one right now, ...but I don't expect 'ultra-chunk' out of it either.

If it does, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[soapbarstrat]

The tube-screamer I built went a little too far with adding fatness. I couldn't take it anymore. I guess I'm a sucker for a little more note separation.

I know when I was playing it, the whole time, I was like DAMN, this is THE TONE I was trying to get in the 80's and now when I finally got it, it's just not my thing anymore.

It's all a big, never ending experimental jig-saw puzzle.

Even worse than the tube screamer was the Hughes and Kettner " cream machine". Imagine your guitar and amp taking a deep nose-dive into a large swimming pool full of grease.

[kpcrash]

Soap - if you're comfortable with building, try a Keeley Mod BD-2 or I have others I've made - just don't wanna hijack the thread

[soapbarstrat]

Comfortable with building, but just lazy. Half way through something, I start losing interest and got my eye on something else. Way too many damn options. Heck, I still want to build and see how I like the Way Huge Red LLama. Found two of those hex inverter chips. One in an old phone another on a computer motherboard.

What about the Keeley compressor, does that fatten the tone ?

[kpcrash]

I've thought about doing a Llama as well, but leaning more towards a slightly modded big muff pi - working out a built in delay circuit.