86barettaguy Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 while much is written about the mainstream materials for solid guitars like maple, alder, poplar and mahogany, I find it hard to find information on the less orthodox materials such as birch, pine etc. What materials would be suited for what components and what effect should they be expected to have on tone? I'm sure the information is available on the net, I just haven't been able to find it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 This may not be what you are looking for, but it has a lot of technical info on a lot of different kinds of woods: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/f.../chapter_05.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akula Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 I've successfully built a chambered pine body with birch plywood top and back, and that sounds a little... soft. It's a superstrat-looking thing. It's not as bright as my cheap plywood body strat, though, but that one works fine as well. I think there's more input to the sound in how you make it, and the craftsmanship, than the wood you choose. Which is why I'm so surprised mine turned out well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 while much is written about the mainstream materials for solid guitars like maple, alder, poplar and mahogany, I find it hard to find information on the less orthodox materials such as birch, pine etc. What materials would be suited for what components and what effect should they be expected to have on tone? I'm sure the information is available on the net, I just haven't been able to find it... Sorry no compendium on alternatives. It is hard fought knowledge gained through experience. You are probably not going to find a site that explains alternatives to norms outside of Pine Teles and a few one off builds. A better bet would to be start digging through build threads and see what others have used in the past and start experimenting. You will be amazed at what the guys on this forum alone use to build guitars. Our very own Avenger has used some of the craziest combos you can imagine. The other piece of advice I would give is that the European woods of the same name are different from the US woods and have different characteristics while the Aussie woods are a mystery to all but the natives (if someone down under wants to ship some Australian blackwood for experimentation LMK). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Our very own Avenger has used some of the craziest combos you can imagine. BODY - NECK - FRETBOARD mahogany/flamed cedar - flamed maple/chechen/putpleheart - birdseye maple walnut - canarywood - ebony poplar/bloodwood - (bought the neck) goncalo alves/poplar - maple/chechen - bocote white pine - (dough tthe neck) basswood/maple - walnut - bloodwood white limba - wenge - wenge mahogany - maple/makore / canarywood poplar - (bought the neck) maple - (bought the neck) sapele/maple/quilted maple - (bought the neck) ash - maple - oak limba/cherry/spalted maple - teak - slamed maple limba - spanish cedar - makore mahogany/cherry - maple/purpleheart - maple/purpleheart maple/flamed maple - mahogany - chechen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyp Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 so avengers, how do you feel about the poplar bodies? i've read its comprable to ash and basswood. is that a fair comparison? could you see it used in a neck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Poplar is likely too soft to use as a reliable neck. CF would probably make it doable... but if you were gonna add the expense and time of CF... *why* bother using poplar? No cost savings, and more time than a traditional hardwood neck. Unless you like making laminated necks... you could use poplar and something nice and dense to give the ridgid/strength and be fine. For solid poplar neck, I wouldnt do it. (but I do like very stiff multi lam necks.... I broke a truss rod trying to move a 9 layer wenge/zebra neck) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 For a neck, I agree that it's not stiff enough to be a good choice. There's a lot of voodoo and tradition flying around out there about what's suitable to use and what's not. A LOT of it revolves around what the companies use to make an electric, and have been using for decades. They're all about production efficiency and cost effectiveness. They don't use a rosewood for anything but fretboards not because it doesn't sound good, but because it'd be too dang expensive. With that in mind, consider the comparitive cost of poplar to maple. Maple is more expensive, yet they choose to use it anyway. THAT'S the sort of "voodoo" you should take serious note of. So ask yourself why they wouldn't use a particular wood for a function. That will probably tell you if it's suitable or not. What you look for in a neck wood is 1) strength to withstand the tension of the strings, 2) stability (no/little movement, twisting, warping), and 3) tone balancing against the tone of the body wood. So long as #s 1 & 2 are met, the rest is up to you. For a body, you want it to be able to be shaped well and to be able to hold the screws tightly. Low weight is a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 As far as using poplar as a neck, that has pretty well been covered and I agree with what has been said. As to ash, poplar and basswood being the same, poplar and basswod are similar. Ash is different. Ash is much harder, usually heavier and tends to have a brighter tone than the others. I say tends to, because it does depend from piece to piece of wood. Poplar and basswood are about the same in tone, some people say that poplar is a little more prone to being either muddy or sterile. But some people prefer the tone of poplar to basswood. Poplar in my experience needs to have the right pickups matched with it to get the best tone from it. Poplar and basswood are both soft with basswood being a little more so. So they will dent easily. The plus side is that they are very easy to work with and easy on tools. Where as ash can be very hard and wears tools very fast and can take a while to sand. This is not the bible of tone woods, but it lends some help and guidance to the tone you'll get. But it still varies from piece to piece of wood. http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Optio...oodOptions.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helldunkel Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 About pine... Select pine can give you great results... Remember this Benedetto? Bob claimed that it sounded better then any high end professional model he ever built: And Bob was cimpletely right, its more about the maker and his experience which will give the sound to the final product... On my side I have built this experimental guitar for fun a couple years ago using a 5$ 2 piece pine board for the body yet, I was incredibly suprised by its resonance... The most epic guitar Bob ever built was this termited spruce top archtop gutar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 The one I made from clear white pine sounds fantastic. It's very warm and open, but not overly mellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diffidentia Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Pine sounds interesting. It's something there's no lack of around here. The only problem is finding instrument grade stock. I'm also considering trying spruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Pine sounds interesting. It's something there's no lack of around here. The only problem is finding instrument grade stock. I'm also considering trying spruce. I firmly believe "instrument grade" is a marketing ploy to charge double the market price. You need clear (knot & defect free), straight-grained, properly dried wood. It needs to be stable and neither warped, cupped, nor twisted. Any reputable lumber yard sells exactly that. And if you want pine, make sure it's white, not yellow. Specify that you need molding grade or beter. Yellow pine has REALLY hard growth rings with REALLY soft wood in between. It's dang-near impossible to get it perfectly smooth & flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyp Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 so poplar alone isn't recommended... say we laminated it with two strips of 1/4 oak and an oak fretboard? what can i say, i like oak also is white poplar (aspen) the same as your usual poplar? i noticed it has less figuring and is a rather clean looking wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Off topic, but that Benedetto guitar is not termite ridden. It's a type of aquatic animal that did that... some sort of crustacean if I remember correctly. And now... return to your regular programming. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vini Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 you guys shoud look for brazilian woods, just like Embuia, jacarandá, rouxinho, pau ferro etc... they sound realy awsome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 i have used imbuya (often a different spelling over here - rather than imbuia) I like it a lot - smells ncie and can have some nice figure. not always light though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helldunkel Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Off topic, but that Benedetto guitar is not termite ridden. It's a type of aquatic animal that did that... some sort of crustacean if I remember correctly. And now... return to your regular programming. Chris On topic for the Off Topic, but your right, and here is a link after some research, its Teredo mollusk, also known as the Ship Worm: Il Teredo Benedetto Still a termited spruce top would also be killer. But here is some 150 years old termite ridden walnut which I used for building this 8 string guitar neck: And now... return to your regular programming Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua E. Horn Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 About alternative woods, I am rather new to building Guitars, so I have a similar question: I picked up some locally cut White Oak (Texas), literally local... like right down the street lol. Once I get it dried out, would this material be suited at all for a body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted October 26, 2010 Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 Imbuia is soon to be an endangered wood,so any guitar made with it is sure to become a collestor's item... Sorry....old old joke.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted October 26, 2010 Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 I used "Sheduah" wood for the fingerboard on one of my projects. Worked out real well. Very stable, no fret movement and looks like IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helldunkel Posted October 26, 2010 Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 Here is one of the best woods which I have ever used for building a body IMO - ELM It looks like Ash on steroïds with much more colour... (pretty much unknown in guitar building) Its hard to find a big enough piece for making a 1 piece body... Here is a guitar which I built using a 2 pieces of swiss elm, I also glued a crazy maple top on it (just in case your wondering what is that insane wood...) If you look at pic number 2 you can see that I jointed the body using a shark joint... The sustain is out of this world, and its extremely stable but pretty harsh on the tools. in the dark in the sunchine And here is an other guitar on which I used a unique piece of flamed Mukushi (Zambian Teak) for the fingerboard.... (again pretty unknown in guitar building) and some intense flamed oregon myrtlewood for the top! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Yeah have a huge Elm tree in my front yard that is slowly dying.I am afraid I will have to cut it down soon before it takes out the house.Shame though,because it shades most of the yard.Hard to see in this picture because it is behind the other tree.You can see the branches spreading out though Oh...here is a better pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vedog Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 if i may ask,......... what kind of bridge/tailpiece is that? v Here is one of the best woods which I have ever used for building a body IMO - ELM It looks like Ash on steroïds with much more colour... (pretty much unknown in guitar building) Its hard to find a big enough piece for making a 1 piece body... Here is a guitar which I built using a 2 pieces of swiss elm, I also glued a crazy maple top on it (just in case your wondering what is that insane wood...) If you look at pic number 2 you can see that I jointed the body using a shark joint... The sustain is out of this world, and its extremely stable but pretty harsh on the tools. in the dark in the sunchine And here is an other guitar on which I used a unique piece of flamed Mukushi (Zambian Teak) for the fingerboard.... (again pretty unknown in guitar building) and some intense flamed oregon myrtlewood for the top! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 if i may ask,......... what kind of bridge/tailpiece is that? Schaller-Hannes bridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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