The Fool Guy Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 (edited) Ok, so having barely got my fingers wet in my first build, I'm getting started on No 2 (and shortly No 3, with maybe a 2.5 in there somewhere). There's been so many fantastic Tele builds on here lately (GuitarNuts purple tele and Drak's Rising Sun very nearly made me jizz my pants) so I thought I'd better redress the balance <img src="http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> Wood and things... It will be a mahogany body with quilted maple cap. Haven't yet decided if it will have a contol panel or just knobs mounted through the top. I'm using the neck I made a mess of in my first build. Can just about squeeze another one on that blank. Ignore the PRS template. I'll be using one of these tops, haven't decided which yet... Pickups & things... It's going to be a slow build, as it's winter and I don't have lights/heat in my garage Edited January 31, 2011 by The Fool Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fool Guy Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Got the body roughed out and routed Just as I finished the pickup wire channel my router crapped out on me for the second time. So drill press and router gone within a couple of hours :D OK back to my trusty bandsaw, which has never shown any signs of crapping out on me (touch wood)... Got the top rough cut... and the neck roughed out... Time for my first attempt at gluing a top. Clamp time... And about 24 hours later Problems. There's a few gaps around the edge... :'( So, what's the best way to deal with this? Can i just run more glue in and re-clamp? Advice would be very much appreciated here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 camoflague hide it with binding and learn from the mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Fix it! I would try getting the top off without damaging it, remove old glue and clean up surfaces and then re-glue. Covering up mistakes will make you better at covering up mistakes - re-doing will give a pain in the butt and more satisfaction in the end. As for how to get the top off I don't know - but I'm sure someone does know. What kind of glue did you use for the top? Edited February 1, 2011 by Cactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Fix it! I would try getting the top off without damaging it, remove old glue and clean up surfaces and then re-glue. Covering up mistakes will make you better at covering up mistakes - re-doing will give a pain in the butt and more satisfaction in the end. As for how to get the top off I don't know - but I'm sure someone does know. What kind of glue did you use for the top? Removing the top on such a large surface is doable but will be a pain. humid cotton with a clothes iron over it to soften the glue and a wide metal scraper is all you need. You'll probably have to re-surface both the top and body when you're done. The gaps you have there are quite large. I would just add binding if the gaps weren't so big. Just make sure that doesn't happen when you glue the fingerboard on the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejames Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I would squeeze some glue in the gaps and reclamp the edges. I would be willing to bed it would conform and close that gap. I dont think you would have a problem with it lifting later on either with such a small gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundsteelblues Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Can you squeeze it tight now with a clamp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 3/8" cove bit around the edge, then round the hard edges and have a unique design.... hey... that gives me an idea..... to the shop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fool Guy Posted August 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Finally got to do some more on this one, and it went well (unlike my other build). I got a new drill press back in February/March time and hadn't gotten round to setting it up until today, been too busy with other house/garden jobs. I also bought a robosander at the same time so first job on this build was too sand the top flush with the body. Now I'm not 100% sure what happened here but in the process of sanding it would seem that the heat generated has melted the excess glue, mixed it with the sawdust and filled the gaps between the top and the body which i was planning to fill with CA. I'm planning to paint the back and sides black so it won't show, and now i think I'll leave the side of the cap as faux binding. I was planning to bind the guitar to hide the gaps but now that won't be necessary I've still a little more to do around the top horn but the robosander was too big to get in there. How it is now... And a quick mock-up... Still undecided about whether to go with the control plate or to mount the pots/switch from the back So, some good progress to make up for the cock-ups on my other build... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xadioriderx Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 if youre going to do the sides black, you can use wood filler if the gaps come back. i had the same issue on my first build. this time i did a lot better clamping job, so i wouldnt have the same problem again. i had it a lotttt worse than you did too! a little gorilla glue in the crack will expand and fill it also, then wood filler over that to make sure its smooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fool Guy Posted September 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Got a bit more done on this one. The wenge fretboard I had for this was a little thick so i thinned it slightly with the robosander... ...then to the 'sandpaper-stuck-to-old-windowTM' to true it up. Next up was the truss rod channel... ...body cavities and neck pocket. I haven't taken the neck pocket all the way yet, will wait for the neck. Went with the control plate in the end. Routed the neck to shape The neck is tight in the pocket but there is a slight gap. Will sort this out when i come to rout the correct depth for the neck pocket. Then slotted the fretboard And glued it all up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Ajatellen että....ohsorry, wrong language....I think that you need to take as much from the error with the top as you can so you don't repeat the mistake. Sighting along the top and the blank methodically with a straightedge against a light source should be done without question next time! More T-clamps too....they are perfect for glueing up tops if you don't have a press of some kind. Cactus nailed it on the head with this one. Other than that, by the numbers for a second build! Subscribed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fool Guy Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Only a little progress on this one. Got the wiring channels drilled, no exciting pics though Got the fretboard rough sanded to the neck. I discovered that with finer grade sleeves the robosander doesn't sand flush so I'll have to finish it by hand. I'm at the point where I'm starting finish testing so I'll add pics of that shortly. Then the BAD NEWS > It's gone and warped! :D I guess that'll teach me for buying cheap wood from unknown ebay sellers :-[. So the question now is what to do with it. I can flatten it out and give up on the faux binding idea, but what's the chance that it will warp further? Any advice really appreciated here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 If all your glue ups are done and are still clean.....I'd just ignore that. You should still be able to set it properly. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestvic Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Any advice really appreciated here. hmm well the back can definitely be planed down, as for the top... idk? you could do the same but it would thin out the outside faux binding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightninMike Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 You have had wood in a non heat or humidity controlled environment for the better part of 10 months.... unsealed.... 2 choices.... get the wood into a humidity controlled environment that is is room temp.... let it sit.... don't look at it or rush it.... give it 5 days.... has the cup changed?.... if so, let it stay there until you can get some sealer on it Or, you need to run it through a planer and expect tearout on that maple..... or multiple passes on that sheet glass with a bunch of sandpaper in any event, get it sealed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fool Guy Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 I'll leave this to settle and see if it gets worse. Pretty sure it's the mahogany that's cupping rather than the top. In the meantime I'll be testing some finishes. I'm going to use KTM9 for this one so I'll compare dying the top first then z-poxy fill/seal and KTM9, and the z-poxy first then tinting the KTM9. Will post the results in a few weeks. This is the first test piece, dyed black, sanded back, then red with a tiny bit of dark blue. It's actually a little bit darker than the picture suggests. Also I think I could have sanded back a little more. It's had one coat of z-poxy but I put it on with a credit card which wasn't completely flat and it's scratched it up a bit, will buy a rubber squeegee before i do it again. Will probably sand it all off and start again, might try a dark blue dye rather than black for the sand back and see if I can get a red/purple quilt out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 I have had good luck adding amber into red dye to get a more pleasant red color..less "cartooney"... As for the cupping,I am dealing with the same thing right now on my V.It happened right after I "SafT planed" the back of the guitar to thin it down.It has been sitting for a few days now and has gotten much better.Most of the time I let wood sit in my closet for a few years before touching it,but this time it only sat since January,so I may have rushed it a bit.It has nothing to do with "unknown ebay suppliers",it just takes a long time to stabilize from 10-12% down to 6-8%.If you want to pay less than a fool's ransom for wood,you will always have to set it aside and wait.I would rather let it stabilize in my closet than pay quadruple for it. The top...I don't know what type of glue you used,but wood glues like Titebond have water in them,so the wood tries to curl away every place it can.To prevent that you need a godawful amount of clamps and blocks.Gorilla glue is even worse in my experience because it expands and pushes things apart every chance it gets.I have had good luck with epoxy lately,because it doesn't expand or cause the wood to move...it's just more forgiving of fewer clamps. But honestly I think the best thing for a top is to use more clamps...those little pinch clamps you have around the edge in places are cool,but they should cover every single inch of that edge.Spool clamps work better and you can make them yourself.clamp from the middle of the top first,then clamp the entire edge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestvic Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 I have had good luck adding amber into red dye to get a more pleasant red color..less "cartooney"... Can you give a picture example of that top? I'm going to do a Black sanded back Red top for my build. I'm sure The Fool Guy as well as I would love to see your top to see if we want to try it? Spool clamps work better and you can make them yourself.clamp from the middle of the top first,then clamp the entire edge just tried to search and found nothing. Is there a write up on how to make these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fool Guy Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Here's a link to how to make spool clamps. Will be trying this at some point. http://fyoder.com/vp/1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestvic Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 you guys rule! haha thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fool Guy Posted October 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Tested a different dye now. It's a brighter blue in reality. I'll try and get a picture in better light as the colour is quite different to how it looks in this picture. I think I prefer the blue over the red. It's just dye at the moment, so it looks a little flat. Will try and get soe z-poxy on it tonight and then I'll have a go at laying down some clear (KTM-9 ) later in the week. These strips have been dyed black, sanded back and have two coats of z-poxy resin. I'll test tinted lacquer on these. I sanded one back a bit more than the other to see what effect this would have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fool Guy Posted April 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) ...And so, 2 and a half years after the warping body incident :o, I thought it was about time to fix it, and get on with this build (seriously, I have been a bit busy with other things and haven't really done anything guitar-build related in a while). Went with the tried and trusted 'Bits-of-sandpaper-glued-to-flat-surface' method of body flattening... Scribbled all over it with pencil... Then sand... ...sand... and sand some more... Holy Cow! That took a long, long time, about 5 hours to do both sides > But, it is finally flat (or at least good enough for me ) Next we need a belly carve... And a leg carve as I most practice sat down Did these with a combination of Shinto rasp, sandpaper, and scrapers. Still need to do a bit more on the leg carve, as I want to take it under the side of the body more (being very careful to avoid the control cavity). Did the roundover on the back of the body but forgot to take pics, not that exciting really... I also routed the binding channel but haven'y uploaded the pics yet so will add them later. Just ordered some acetone, for a binding glue, and some of that blue masking tape. Colour tests were done some years ago and appear earlier in the thread. Going with blue quilt, which looks much better in reality than the crappy pictures I posted previously. Will also be building a new garage at some point this year, then the guitar building can get going properly again, as the current one is old and damp and everything it there rusts. Will be seeking advice on cleaning up rusty tools (bandsaw, drillpress) etc nearer the time. Edited April 22, 2014 by The Fool Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Went with the tried and trusted 'Bits-of-sandpaper-glued-to-flat-surface' method of body flattening... ... Holy Cow! That took a long, long time, about 5 hours to do both sides > I feel your pain. I went through a similar episode and solution a few weeks back. Oh well, we do what has to be done. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fool Guy Posted April 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 And here's the binding channel routed... As you can see here, I didn't have much room left for sanding before I started to expose the (badly drilled) wiring channel... Should fit nicely... I'm thinking that this is starting to come together nicely. The body feels great, nice and light, and I'm starting to think that the neck I have for this (or what I have so far) isn't good enough. Might make a new one and use this current neck on another build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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