My Second Build Attempt

[verhoevenc]

#Winning

Chris

[Charlie H 72]

Nice! I really like how you have walked the line between classic and modern with these. Plus the workmanship is awesome.

[Maiden69]

Nice, one comment on the sanding sealer and DEFT paint. That is what I used on my first few guitars, and they where as good (finish wise) as the guitars that I have done with Behlen nitro. With that said, all the guitars that I finished with DEFT got damaged on storage. Somehow, either the heat or the actual finish is not as strong as the Behlen nitro. They got marred from the fabric on the cases, especially in the front area where the small squares of foam are that pushes the body so it won't shift around during transportation. Right now I'm waiting to finish the move, to take them all out and strip them for re-finish. This time, in 2k paint. No more nitro for me.

[sdshirtman]

Nice, one comment on the sanding sealer and DEFT paint. That is what I used on my first few guitars, and they where as good (finish wise) as the guitars that I have done with Behlen nitro. With that said, all the guitars that I finished with DEFT got damaged on storage. Somehow, either the heat or the actual finish is not as strong as the Behlen nitro. They got marred from the fabric on the cases, especially in the front area where the small squares of foam are that pushes the body so it won't shift around during transportation. Right now I'm waiting to finish the move, to take them all out and strip them for re-finish. This time, in 2k paint. No more nitro for me.

Well thats scary and thanks for bringing it up. This is only my second experience with deft but my first did take a while to cure. I waited 30 days and I should have waited a little longer. I remember buffing the top of my first while the body was resting on a towel and it left slight impressions on the back I had to buff back out. The first one is 18 months old now and the finish is nice and cured. It did shrink back a little though which tells me something.

At this point its a little too late unless I want to sand back down or try and mix two different brands which probably isn't wise.

I guess I should let this one marinate a little longer after I shoot the final clear coats before I wet sand and buff. It may be May before I can get this complete. I've seen other builders assemble before final sanding and buffing and do the final finish 6 months after its done. I was hoping to have these done somewhere around the end of April. This is really going to test my patience.

*Sigh*

[Maiden69]

With Behlen nitro, I finished the guitar and a few days letter I did my final sand and buff. I did the same with the DEFT, just that it didn't held up like the other one does.

[sdshirtman]

Its been almost 2 months since I updated this but I'm back.

Work has been busy as all hell and thats takes precedence. It drives me nuts that if I could have only had another week or so on this I could have clear coated them and all that time could have been spent curing. As I said previously its a good test of my patience. Oh well thats life I guess.

Anyways here are some updates with pictures.

Mt next step was grain filling which really isn't my favorite thing to do but it has to be done. I used timber mate for this task based off of recommendation on another thread.

For the blue one I just used the stock mahogany color. All I did was thin it down a bit to the consistency of peanut butter. It went on easy enough with a plastic chip. I let it sit for 5-10 min then wiped down the body with a damp rag to remove the excess.

For the tobacco finish I darkened up the filler with some med brown and a few drops of black trans tint dye.

I filled and sanded back twice and that seemed sufficient. From there the project stalled for about another month.

My next step was dying the body starting with the darker mahogany. I started by prewetting the wood with a little distilled water to help it blend. Next was a wash of straight amber followed with med brown on the edges and feathered into the center.

Here it is after the first session and still damp.

I wasn't happy with how dark the edges were after the first session so I did a second to darken the outer edges up.

Here is is after the second session.

I'm pretty happy with the contrast between the walnut and the mahogany sides here.

I'd still like a touch more contrast between the walnut and the maple on top but I'll get to that later.

.

[sdshirtman]

On the blue one I was thinking of leaving the back just the way it is and just clear coating but decided to add a little amber and a smidgen of brown to it.

Here it is just after filling with a bit of naphtha added to half.

And here it is after a thined down wash of amber followed with a ver thin wash of med brown to just slightly darken it up and bring out some of the grain.

I waasnt really happy with the final color here and decided to go over it once more with a thin wash of med brown.

With some naphtha rubbed on a section to show contrast.

And a better picture.

I'm not super stoked with the final color here but I think it will do. Hindsight is always 20/20 and at this point I with I would have just listened to my instincts and left this one unfinished on the back.

At this point I'm not about to sand back and start over though as I want to start spraying nito tomorrow morning. It is what it is at this point. Maybe I'm being too critical. In the end I think it will look just fine. What do you guys think?

[demonx]

Looking great!

[Prostheta]

Wow.

That is all.

[Muzz]

I'm not super stoked with the final color here but I think it will do. Hindsight is always 20/20 and at this point I with I would have just listened to my instincts and left this one unfinished on the back.

At this point I'm not about to sand back and start over though as I want to start spraying nito tomorrow morning. It is what it is at this point. Maybe I'm being too critical. In the end I think it will look just fine. What do you guys think?

Mate the guitar is looking fantastic, and to answer your question, I would do some more work on the colour of the top, the blue is really poping in places and duller in others, it's just a matter of sanding back and re-staining until you get it just the way you want it. All the best with it

[sdshirtman]

I'm not super stoked with the final color here but I think it will do. Hindsight is always 20/20 and at this point I with I would have just listened to my instincts and left this one unfinished on the back.

At this point I'm not about to sand back and start over though as I want to start spraying nito tomorrow morning. It is what it is at this point. Maybe I'm being too critical. In the end I think it will look just fine. What do you guys think?

Mate the guitar is looking fantastic, and to answer your question, I would do some more work on the colour of the top, the blue is really poping in places and duller in others, it's just a matter of sanding back and re-staining until you get it just the way you want it. All the best with it

I hear ya. If you look back a few pages you can read about the problems I had with the top of the blue one. Its got spots that are just kind of "Dead".

Im not going back that far at this point and I dont think it would do much good if I did.

[Prostheta]

For what it is worth though - having read this thread back through from the top - everything here reads like a fantastic tutorial in guitar building. It might even be worthwhile considering re-compiling it as such once you have gotten past the post? Your (as Chris rightly called them) stellar carves have made me want to pull the trigger on some flamed Maple when I get permanent workspace again.

So much for my idea of making a couple of plain gloss black carved tops then.

[Prostheta]

Oh, it is too late to consider suggested that you sort out that glueline? Nothing a bit of jointing won't hide.

[sdshirtman]

Oh, it is too late to consider suggested that you sort out that glueline? Nothing a bit of jointing won't hide.

Thanks for the comments and kind words. Its too late to fix that glue seam at this point. Its filled and shouldn't show too much in the gran scheme of things. Its only my second and third build and they are what they are, which for me is a learning experience. I learned quite a lot from my first build and I've learned a lot from these two.

I'll try and apply those lessons on the next build and see if I can push myself a little further in the future. I already have a few ideas in mind.

[sdshirtman]

On second look at this I realized you were poking fun. Drr. I'm slow sometimes. Lol.

[supplebanana]

Oh, it is too late to consider suggested that you sort out that glueline? Nothing a bit of jointing won't hide.

Thanks for the comments and kind words. Its too late to fix that glue seam at this point. Its filled and shouldn't show too much in the gran scheme of things. Its only my second and third build and they are what they are, which for me is a learning experience. I learned quite a lot from my first build and I've learned a lot from these two.

I'll try and apply those lessons on the next build and see if I can push myself a little further in the future. I already have a few ideas in mind.

don't care whether anyone is poking fun or not, mistakes or not I've seen worse pro builds - like has been said on previous builds - a good luthier hides their mistakes - the only problem with these is you've been honest enough & had the balls to share them - I'd be happy to own both of these builds - i've made much worse mistakes over the years that can't be hidden!! (not telling!!)

[ScottR]

SD, these are incredible. And I for one really like what you did to the mahogany on both of them. Saying good job sounds inadequate for these....nevertheless- Good job!

SR

[Prostheta]

I couldn't agree more. As said, mistakes are part of the game at times and dealing with them is the difference between a good and a bad luthier, in my opinion. The pure honesty and clear thought on each process is what makes this a build thread that i regard as being better than some published books on luthiery.

[sdshirtman]

Heres a few finish update pics.

I printed some decals up on my Epson 1800 I have at my office. I've put a million of these on models as a kid but for some reason these were a PITA. Mostly because the paper wouldn't release the second decal properly. I'm glad I printed extras because I ended up trashing the second one and starting over. Funny thing too because the first one went on like I did that all day long on an assembly line.

Dig my super complex numbering system.

I thought this placement was as good as any.

Onto the body finish. Cameras hide flaws and heres one I didn't really think was going to be that big of a deal.

Notice the wood fibers that wouldn't take in the stain deep enough? I cant figure out exactly what caused it but I think possibly it could have been a remnant of the ca glue I used to do the binding. Either way it sticking out to me like a sore thumb and I cant stand it. I've put too much effort into this thing and it must be fixed.

Here what I did.

Basically I wanted to try and spray a little bit of darker burst around the edge to hide this discoloration and to also darken up the edges for better contrast between the walnut and the maple. I wanted this to be semi transparent to let the grain show through.

I could go get some clear lacquer to spray out of a gun, but I dont have a gun and I was worried about a possible reaction between different brands of lacquer. What I do have is a bunch of leftover almost empty deft cans. I only use like 2/3rds to 3/4 of a can of lacquer before I stop using it because at that point they can start to sputter and so fourth. So I took an almost empty can and flipped it over and clamped it into my vice with the nozzle depressed against the bottom of the vice so all the air would bleed from the can.

Then I punctured the can and harvested the leftovers. It was about an inch or so in an old olive jar.

I then diluted it about 50/50 with lacquer thinner and added about 10 drops of med brown dye and a drop of black to about 1.5 oz of thinned lacquer.

This mixture then got shot through a badger 150 airbrush. It actually shot out quite nicely and didnt give be any clogging problems at all. I used this to darken the edges.

My experiments were done with a black mixture that came out pretty darn cool but for me it was a bit much. I decided to use brown figuring it would allow me some error if I applied any to heavily in any one spot.

Here is the before pic.

Then the dyed lacquer around the edges.

And then with another coat of lacquer.

The spot is still there because of the transparency but its much less noticeable than before and I'm loving the contrast now. if you've been following this thread know I've been chasing that.

I think this is just what it needed to round out the burst and bump it up a notch.

On the blue one.

I did some tests on the color sample piece I did before in a black tint and really liked it. If it were up to me I would have done the same thing to it except with the black but the future owner said he was happy with it the way it was and didnt want me to, so its staying as is.

As a final thought on this. I decided to do this pretty late in the game. Ideally I should have done this much earlier in the finishing process. I realize that by doing this after I've sprayed and built up a reasonable amount of clear coats on the front already, that I'll be flirting with burning through the additional tinting when it comes to wet sanding and buffing these later on. Thats going to force me to lay on a few more additional coats of lacquer as a buffer and I worry about having the lacquer on too thick. I'm thinking that because of this I'm probably going to have to let this sit and cure a little longer then I had planned. I'm thinking probably 6 weeks. If anyone has a more experienced gauge let me know.

Ohh and I almost forgot! last but not least. I've decided on pickups for the blue one. I spoke to Jeff Shepherd at Sheptone pickups today. Super nice guy. We discussed the guitar woods I'm using on these and some other related details and he's winding me up a set of custom AB Special PAFs. He's going to wind them just slightly hotter then normal and use a 4 wire lead so I can split them. I've read a lot about this guys stuff and I cant wait to get them in there. Its going to take him 4 weeks so they should come in right around assembly time.

His website is here:

sheptone pickups

Edited May 15, 2012 by sdshirtman

[ScottR]

Thanks for posting those shots. That is exactly how I'm planning to burst mine--both dye in the wood and a tint in the lacquer. I have not tried that yet, so seeing a set of pics is very helpful.

It came out nicely too.

SR

[sdshirtman]

Thanks for posting those shots. That is exactly how I'm planning to burst mine--both dye in the wood and a tint in the lacquer. I have not tried that yet, so seeing a set of pics is very helpful.

It came out nicely too.

SR

I'll be watching to see how you do yours. Just don't do it so late like I did.

[sdshirtman]

Why hello again everyone.

Its been a while and I have a little update on these.

I got an email from Jeff at Sheptone today letting me know my custom would AB's are finished and shipping today.

That prompted me to check the calendar and see how long the finish on these has been curing. I didnt actually write down the date of the last coat but judging by my posts its been about 6 weeks.

Both bodies have been hanging around quietly in the back of my closet. I checked in on them about a two weeks ago and both of them have had the clear coats shrink back pretty drastically on the back. So much so that I'm wondering if they are safe to sand and level without burning through. I'll break them out tonight and take some pictures so you can see for yourselves.

I'm really anxious to get these finished but after all the stories I've read about deft lacquer taking so long to cure I dont want to get impatient and jump the gun on these. I read a thread on mylespaulforums that said it could take 6 months.

End update.

On another note I've purchased two really nice 3/4" thick AAAA figured maple tops from Northridge along with a really nice piece of 18" x 22" x 2" Sapele and a matching piece for a neck.

I also picked up a very nice (and expensive) 8" x 6' x 2" piece of Honduran mahogany. I'l share my full intentions for those in a new thread soon but I'm thinking its time for me to do a set neck.

[Pestvic]

sweet i cant wait to see those tops throw those in the pics too

[sdshirtman]

Ok here are some current pics.

And the front which isnt nearly as bad.

And the headstock.

Even though the bodies have been curing for 6 weeks they still smell just a bit. I'm thinking that they might need to cure longer. What do you guys think?

[sdshirtman]

Oh and pestvic these are for you.

The honduran mahogany is just to the right of that sick piece of birds eye maple in the back.

The sapele is peeking out in the center.

The new tops. Im out of naptha so you have to use your imagination.

And a nice .25" thick piece of cocobolo I scored for seven bucks.