My Second Build Attempt

[Prostheta]

In retrospect I wish I would have mitered the end piece of binding. I have no idea why I didnt. It just didnt cross my mind till it was done. Chalk it up to being a "noob".

I do think the darker binding will look much better though.

The concept of mitring binding sounds easy on paper, however achieving it well in practice is something totally different so I wouldn't be harsh by calling yourself a noob just because you're using a perfectly fine method that works. Try mitring on scrap sometime and you'll soon be happy that you didn't try committing it to a workpiece at this stage :-D

I hate mitring. I am just not patient enough.

[WezV]

i prefer to have the longer bits of binding extending past the fretboard and just make a short bit to fit in between them on the end. - looks pretty clean and much easier than getting the mitre right

[sdshirtman]

i prefer to have the longer bits of binding extending past the fretboard and just make a short bit to fit in between them on the end. - looks pretty clean and much easier than getting the mitre right

I agree. Again I dont know what I was thinking, but its too late to change now.

[Prostheta]

If you even attempted to re-do that binding, you'd have us kicking your door down and breathing down your neck till you complete these! Seriously. It looks great as is.

[WezV]

also, on the truss rod cover. i would have one as normal

sure, the access looks really good - but that could be a really nice surprise for someone further down the line. i love it when i find little construction details like that when working on a guitar

[sdshirtman]

also, on the truss rod cover. i would have one as normal

sure, the access looks really good - but that could be a really nice surprise for someone further down the line. i love it when i find little construction details like that when working on a guitar

I think I agree with you at this point. I was thinking about maybe doing a thin lam of ebony-walnut-ebony to use for the truss cover. Then again one of the mockups has a piece of maple stained to match the body that I like. We'll see.

I did my first headstock binding Friday night and self schooled myself on wood bending. All in all it went pretty smoothly. At first I was trying to miter the binding while it was installed with an exacto. I got the idea from a video on youtube of some guy from the PRS custom shop who was doing it that way. It turns out it was much easier to pre-miter both sides of the binding before gluing it on. Live and learn.

I used surgical tubing to clamp the binding tight. Dont know if its the norm to use of not but it worked great and was really easy to work with.

I wish some of the miters were a little tighter but I'm happy with the end result.

Edited September 26, 2011 by sdshirtman

[sdshirtman]

Next up was to angle the body beyond the neck pickup to 3.24 degrees so it would match the angle of the neck. I want the fretboard to sit right up flush with the body kind of like a Les Paul.

Routing the headstock angle. This little angle finder gizmo is worth its weight in gold.

I'm pretty proud of how accurate this came out.

This came within less than a millimeter of where I planned for the string to meet the bridge.

With the frets installed and strings setup I think my bridge will only have to float maybe 2mm over the body.

I did have to do some very slight sanding on the back of the neck to just slightly change the neck angle. This is because when I drew up my plans I didnt take into account the fact that my finger board would be slightly thinner by the 22nd fret after radiusing. Lesson learned.

Its finally starting to look like a guitar.

[sdshirtman]

I set up to drill my tuner holes by placing some wood behind the headstock to minimize any possible tear out and and drilled in from the top. On the third hole I tore out a chunk of ebony. I should have done just the opposite which I did, and the rest of the holes came out fine. I dont have pics but I fixed it by mixing some epoxy and ebony dust and filling the gap and sanded it flat with some 320 the next day. I can still see it but I think it should be fine once a tuner washer is over it and the headstock is clear coated and finished. I'm thankful it wasn't worse.

Can you spot it?

I counter sunk for my neck ferrules. These can be a pain to remove. I use a decently powerful magnet and they come right out.

Installing the inserts. The first time I did this I used a spare bolt with some nuts to screw these in instead of a screwdriver. They went in pretty straight but not as straight as they could have been.

This time I used a 3" bolt with the head cut off and some nuts and placed it into the chuck of my drill press so I could drive them in dead straight. I used a wrench to help torque it down. This was much easier and quicker and a lot more accurate.

The inserts are counter sunk about a mm under the surface.

And installed.

[sdshirtman]

With the neck screws/bolts installed its time to glue on the fretboard.

I'm going with the drill bit indexing method again.

Maybe this wasnt the normal way but I used some violin clamps in conjunction with the squeeze clamps I have to clamp this all up. I want to make sure the edges dont have any gaps. I got a few gaps on my first build I had to fill. I didnt want it to happen again.

It occurred to me just before I glued this up that I forgot to kiss the fret slots with a file before I glued on the binding. I know you dont have to but I've read where it really helps to allow the frets to seat better.

I'm thinking I can still do it with the corner of a small block of wood with some 320 stuck to it. Its just going to be more time consuming.

Thats as far as it goes so far. I'm debating wether to fret it next or do the neck carve first then fret it. Does anyone have any advice on which some be done first? My first build I fret it before carving the neck.

Oh and if anyone has advice or a tutorial I haven't seen here yet on carving the volute I'm all ears.

[westhemann]

It occurred to me just before I glued this up that I forgot to kiss the fret slots with a file before I glued on the binding. I know you dont have to but I've read where it really helps to allow the frets to seat better.

I'm thinking I can still do it with the corner of a small block of wood with some 320 stuck to it. Its just going to be more time consuming.

I use a triangle file to do that.the point of it does it after the binding is already on.

http://www.amazon.com/Corradi-Riffler-File-Cut-Triangle/dp/B0037MF9NG/ref=sr_1_6?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1317376704&sr=1-6

[Prostheta]

It occurred to me just before I glued this up that I forgot to kiss the fret slots with a file before I glued on the binding. I know you dont have to but I've read where it really helps to allow the frets to seat better.

I'm thinking I can still do it with the corner of a small block of wood with some 320 stuck to it. Its just going to be more time consuming.

"I know you don't have to"....I would pretty much say it is mandatory! The upwards pressure from the wood compressed under the wire's tiny rounded internal corner is enough to prevent flush seating and throw off an otherwise perfect fretjob from the get go. It also goes a little way towards helping prevent chipping out further down the line if you ever do a refret. It's a small procedure and as they say, "an ounce of prevention is better than a metric cure". Nowait.

[sdshirtman]

Heres an update with some minor disaster at the end.

I decided I had to grain fill the walnut binding before I fretted. The only grain filler I have is called cristalac and the last time I used it was on a mahogany body and I was less than impressed with the results so I settled on using CA glue for the job. I started off by masking off the binding with vinyl automotive masking tape. From there I used med ca glue on a brush to fill the grain.

filling

I only filled the sides of the headstock binding because I'll be lacquering the top of the headstock.

After everything was filled I ended up sanding the binding with 320 then 400 grits and finished with 0000 steel wool.

After all the work on this I ended up taking off a reasonable amount of the stain off the board so I ended up re-masking off the binding and re-dying the board black. (again)

The vinyl tape didnt let the CA glue bleed at all and I'm pleased with the result

Edited October 9, 2011 by sdshirtman

[sdshirtman]

Which leads me to the fretting. I decided that I was going to take on doing semi-hemispherical frets for one of these.

I used pretty much the same method described in Prostheta's tutorial on semi-hemispherical fretting with a few minor tweaks. One thing Prostheta's tutorial doesn't take into account is getting the frets to an exacting length. I needed to figure out a way to properly measure these for each fret slot. I wanted the frets to be .015 away from the edges of the board so I made blocks with a .015 recess over half its length using a feeler gauge to measure. I then clamped these to each side of the board and measured the distance between them.

After the measurement I'd lock in the measurement.

Then I needed to take into account that the fretwire was radiused a few degrees tighter than the 14" radius of the board. If I were to measure the fret like this it would enlarge/lengthen slightly after it was pressed in. My solution for this was to make a simple jig to hold the fret while I was working on it. Its just a block of maple with the same radius as my board and a slightly wider slot for the tang. This allowed me to hang the fret end off the end and work on the fret comfortably but firmly. It also allowed me to press the fret down and properly measure its length while at the correct radius.

I timed how long it took me to do each fret. The first one took 27 min, the second 24 min and as I did more the times became shorter and shorter until I hit a wall at about 19 min per. Maybe I'm slower than Prostheta but the total time was roughly 8 hours total. Thats a LOT of time for a fret job and that doesn't include pressing them in. I did this in several sittings over the week.

Here they are finished and ready to be pressed in.

Before pressing the frets in I installed the pearl side dots. I was going to do both necks but it turns out stew mac sent me 19 markers shorting me one.

After the side dots were installed I taped off the binding again and applied some tru oil to the top of the binding as this would be easier before frets were installed. The sides of the binding would be oiled after the neck was carved.

So yesterday I set off to press in the frets. I started by lightly tapping in the fret then once again used the blocks with the .015 recess to make sure they were centered before I pressed them in.

Staring with the 22nd fret I pressed it in... and it didnt seat completely. The ends were sticking up slightly. So I took a caul I have and used it to try and hammer down the edges.

The ends still wouldnt seat. ***?!

I measured the radius again with my 12" radius gauge and found that the last quarter inch of radius was slightly tighter but it still didnt make sense. The frets were over radiused enough where this shouldn't be an issue.

So it seemed I'd be pulling the fret out which I carefully did.

Thats when the rest of my day took a turn. This was the aftermath of pulling the fret.

@#$&%!!!

After this I composed myself and did my best to repair the chipping carefully glueing the chips down with ca glue. It took a while to fix but its better now.

I've had some mistakes along the way on this build but this really got me pissed off. After the repair was finished I had to walk away for the day. I ended up calling a friend up and we ended up playing acoustics in the garage for the rest of the night and drank a few bottles of wine. Alcohol and a good jam can do wonders for your attitude.

This morning a went out and figured out what the problem was and I'm sure after reading this most of you more experienced builders already know. My fret slots are too shallow. With as much time and thought as I've put into this project so far its amazing how something as rudimentary as this has escaped me. Talk about humbling. I feel like a complete idiot. *sigh*

Which leads me to the question of how to fix it and move on. It seems like I have two choices at this point.

Option one. Send off for a fret cleaning saw from Stewmac and try and deepen the slots. I'm thinking this could be problematic trying to get the slot deep enough where the slot is right against the binding.

Option two. Grind off some of the tang on each fret with a dremel. This is the method I'm leaning towards as its easier on my pocket book. My main concern with this solution is reducing the tang too much and not having enough "bite" to secure it in the board. I should add that the tangs are pretty tight and I dont think I'll have to grind down the tang to the point that I grind off the barbs. Would this be ok?

I'd like to hear opinions. Are you listening Prostheta?

Edited October 9, 2011 by sdshirtman

[Prostheta]

I sure am! I get email every time this thread updates because I'm really enjoying it. :-D

I had a paranoia about shallow slots when I did mine, so I cut a tiny bit off the end of my fret saw and attached it to a handle to make a mini slot saw. I don't do pretty "one-off" tools, just pretty results! Worst comes to the worst, grind your tangs shallower and fit them with a little glue. You have a press, so if you're able to keep constant pressure on each fret you're in business. I would just measure your slot depths however. It's never nice to find some debris lodged in there preventing frets seating properly.

I wouldn't bother with the SM tool. If you have a grinder you can easier take a kitchen knife and make a slot scraper to your personal liking. I just never have the patience to do the right thing otherwise this would have been my solution rather than having a fret saw with a sharp chunk missing from the end covered with masking tape. *cough*

[dpm99]

Nicely done on that repair!

[woodsman1031]

Good save on that chipped slot!!!! I. dont think it will be noticeable

[Prostheta]

Have you bevelled your fret slots? It looks like they are pretty tight on the edge, and that will relieve a lot of your issues with chipout and fret seating.

[sdshirtman]

Thanks for the save accolades. Not something that I wanted to do but was necessary.

Thanks Prostheta, I went and picked up a cheap Japanese pull saw that I'll be destroying when I get home to make a fret cleaning saw. I think a little careful sawing to deepen the slots and a little grinding will work. Just going to have to go slow and check the slot depth on each one before I press.

As far as kissing the fret slots. I did it once but I think I nullified them once when I re-sanded the board. They have been re-done now and are good to go.

I'll post the progress, good or bad soon.

[sdshirtman]

Well I did some work on this last night. I measured each slot and tang on the board and also carefully re-checked the radius of each fret to make sure the ends would seat properly. I was ready to start pressing frets again.

I got the first (22nd fret) in and it was looking good. I went to press in the second one (21st fret) and noticed the fret was wider than the previous. What the hell?

Well it seemed that somewhere over the weekend of having people in and out of my garage that somehow these last two frets got switched from their respective places in my fret holder.

I had no choice then to again pull the fret, and when I did guess what happened? The thing chipped out just as bad as the first even with the kissing. So after throwing a small fit and more choice expletives I set about gluing down the chips and moving on.

Now that this part if repaired again I'm having SERIOUS second thoughts on this whole semi hemispherical fret end thing. I thought it would be a pretty cool thing to do but I'm two for two now. I cant afford to damage this board any further and I'm wondering if its even worth it. Its also got me wondering what's going to happen the first time this thing needs a re-fret down the road.

Also after this latest fretboard mistake I decided to measure each slot and fret and found I have a + or - .005 of an inch either way on the fret width measurements. I dont know if I'm splitting hairs but its something else to make me second guess this.

If I decide to go and fret this the traditional way I have to pull the first fret which means more chips and another repair where i've already done one.

If I decide to continue I'm afraid that another error can potentially ruin this board and dozens of hours of work.

Thoughts anyone?

[Prostheta]

Yep. Practice on scrap.

Don't abandon the idea of semi hemi frets right yet. If it is not the right thing for the instrument, then let it be. Move on. It is a worthwhile addition to an instrument, so give it some practice elsewhere I think.

[WezV]

i would also practice inserting/pulling frets on some scrap

the slight bevel and a bit of heat can stop the chips - but the only real way to prevent them is technique, and even then its going to chip a bit on flat sawn boards

i heat the fret with a soldering gun modified to heat the fret quickly

this makes the fret part of the circuit and guarantees heat transfer. once a little warm i get a sharp blade under an end then i use fret cutters to walk the fret out with a gentle wiggle. the flat surface of the flush ground cutters and the slight wiggle motion helps prevent large chips

[RestorationAD]

I know it has already been said...

Bevel the top of your fret slots it will reduce the chip out and allow the fret to seat properly. I use a needle triangle file and just make a few quick passes.

As for fret slot depth I modified a backsaw with a grinder to do the deed. However you can use a dremel if you have the really small .023 bits.

edit: how redundant of me... well I did mention the dremel.

[sdshirtman]

Thanks for the input. I'm scrapping the hemispherical fret ends for now and going with the standard fretting technique. I guess thats 8 hours down the tubes.

I pulled the 22nd fret for the second time using tips from RestorationAD and still got a massive amount of chipping. It took me another hour to fix it. The edges of the fret slot looks pretty raw but should be covered by the new frets. Pretty humbling.

Hopefully this goes a little smoother this time.

Edited October 12, 2011 by sdshirtman

[Prostheta]

Live and learn I guess. You'll still need to deal with any issues to do with shallow fret slots however. I just hate problems that occur later down the line after backtracking is made more difficult. I recall a certain dual humbucker set neck I built where I forgot to drill through from the neck pup cavity to the bridge. Blehhhhhhh.

[RestorationAD]

Thanks for the input. I'm scrapping the hemispherical fret ends for now and going with the standard fretting technique. I guess thats 8 hours down the tubes.

I pulled the 22nd fret for the second time using tips from RestorationAD and still got a massive amount of chipping. It took me another hour to fix it. The edges of the fret slot looks pretty raw but should be covered by the new frets. Pretty humbling.

Hopefully this goes a little smoother this time.

Wow. Really sorry about that. I hate this is going so rough.

I would chalk that up as part of the fun of working with ebony. I suspect that the freshly sanded board is very "crispy" for lack of a better term. Also with ebony and harder woods the fret tangs tend to really do a lot of damage when they come out. The other thing you can try is to hit the tangs with a file on each side before pressing them. Stew Mac has a contraption for this. It helps reduce backbow caused by large barbs on the fret tang. I will say that in my experience stringing the guitar up with heavy strings tuned to pitch for a couple of days usually helps drive the barbs in and remove the backbow but "Your mileage may vary".

WezV soldering gun mod is a great thing and you should definitely try that (on scrap).