dalandser Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Hello, I found my guitar with the treble side of the fingerboard lifting at the neck joint and the heel lifting away from the body. I figured I'd have to take off the neck for any kind of quality repair so here are pictures of what I have so far: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzZWtk8LPXU1OF9CNm9DNjlpNlk&usp=sharing Sorry for not being able to post the pictures themselves here - the system wouldn't let me do it. What should I do next to go about resetting this neck? Should I leave everything as is, or should I sand everything on the fretboard underside, the soundboard, or even the neck heel (not where the wood broke, but where the epoxy makes a ridge on the outside of the plastic body shell)? What glue(s) or epoxy should I use to reset it. How should I clamp it? Do I need to make a jig (I hope not - at least not a well crafted wooden one - no tools for that unless a dremel counts...). I'm looking preferably for someone to answer who has worked on this type of guitar before. I've heard that people have a hard time getting glues to stick to the epoxy. It seems like I might have gotten lucky that the wood actually broke giving me some good wood surfaces to glue. Also, the fretboard didn't have much glue holding it to the soundboard. Is this the way it should be or will I perhaps even be able to improve the connection between the soundboard and the fretboard with closer attention to detail? I'd like to save this guitar - it's the only acoustic I've ever owned besides a little nylon string small scale guitar. It's also the guitar I've owned the longest out of any guitars I've owned. Hopefully I'll be able to save it with your advice. Thank you in advance for your advice. Have a great day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 I have never had to re-set a neck before. I would suspect epoxy is the best choice if the joint is gappy in order to take advantage of its mechanical bonding capability. Fingerboards don't need to be attached to the soundboard so all I would do is to clean these whilst they are apart and leave them otherwise. Clean off the old glue with a good sharp chisel and do plenty of dry fitting. Is the neck fitting back tightly? I presume that when you say the neck was lifting on the treble side, you mean it was pulling out of the neck join's mortice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Let us know if there are gaps or voids in the tenon/mortice. Those might benefit from specific repair if they exist. If you need storage for photos, use the board's Gallery function....you should have plenty of space there and you can just insert them in the editor using the "My Media" button up there ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workingman Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Normally I would bow to Prostheta's greater experiance but on this one I would disagree. 1) I think hot hide glue is the way to go. It has the gapfilling abilites of expoxy and if you don't get it right the firsts time you can try again. There are no econd chances with epoxy. 2) Unless the fingerboad was designed to float of the body (as on some archtops) I would glue it down. The fringerboard will need the support of the body to stay rigid when you fret. Also, unless there is a substantial gap, the board likley will buzz against the body when certian notes are played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Disagree away! Ultimately the more options dalandser has, the more he has to base his decision-making on. Never attempted neck re-sets....I think you've got this licked, Workingman. Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalandser Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Sounds good. Thank you for the advice. The fingerboard was glued to the soundboard - they just left a lot of air gaps in there. My main concern is how to clamp the neck to the body while the glue dries. If you look at the photos, I think what you're calling the tenon and the mortise are actually made of two different material. The tenon (male counterpart?) is made of wood and the mortice (female?) is made of plastic. However the tenon broke so that there is a wood on wood connection on the bottom and on one side (the bass side I believe). The other joint between the mortise and the tenon broke cleanly at the wood / plastic connection. There do not appear to be any voids in the joint even though various parts of it are comprised of three different materials - wood, epoxy, plastic. There was a significant amount of epoxy used to seat the bottom of the tenon about 1mm above the bottom of the mortise. You can see it in the pictures of the mortise. The fretboard was glued to the soundboard, but I'm not sure how well - most of the underside seems clean of any glue. So the suggestion is that I remove all of the glue chips from the bottom of the fingerboard rather than using the fragments as references for fitting the neck back on the body? The guitar played great, but I think it was the heel lifting away from the body that caused the treble side of the fingerboard come unglued from the soundboard. I don't know how this happened - if it was just inevitable or if someone dropped it (it stays at church and there are kids...) however I've heard that this happens on a semi-frequent basis with these guitars, so I'm thinking it's probably just time taking its toll on the guitar. Questions about glue: Will hyde glue bond wood and the clearcoat on the sound board? Will it bond the wooden tenon to the plastic body shell part of the mortise? Will epoxy bond these joints? I see both sides - if I am able to use hyde glue and just heat it up again to reset it, then I can have second chance. If I use epoxy, then I get one shot. I am leaning towards epoxy and multiple dry fits and then just slamming the joints full of epoxy and setting it clamped up for about a month or two. I already bought another guitar since I'm not sure of the results and I need one for work and for church on occasion. I still want to fix this one and maybe give it to someone that wants to learn. I will definitely not be selling it lol. Of course I could always sell my new guitar if this fix goes well also... So my three main questions are: 1. Will hyde glue secure all the joints in this fix well? 2. How should I go about clamping this guitar? 3. If I use epoxy, which kind should I use? 4. In My Media there are no pictures (since I haven't put any in lol), but I also can't find where to upload them. Where should I go to do this? Sorry for not being able to do that - I'm pretty young even lol. Thank you for the advice. I look forward to hearing about more ideas! Take care. Anthony Edited February 25, 2014 by dalandser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHowell Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Unless the fingerboad was designed to float of the body (as on some archtops) I would glue it down Yes most definitely glue it down. This ensures the stress on the neck and sound board are correctly coupled and the neck (and neck block) wont move(creep) towards the bridge. Not sure if this is a problem in Ovations where the neck block is probably molded into the back shell, but it certainly is on conventional acoustic guitars. You could also consider modifying to incorporate a bolt on neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workingman Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I didn't realize the joint contained plastic. Hide glue will not work very well on plastic. You could try asking Ovation what to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalandser Posted March 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Thank you! Great advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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