mairj40 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I just picked up a 1977 Giannini AWN classical guitar for free. The lady I got it from said that her ex boyfriend broke it a few years ago. It really doesn't look like too big of a fix to me. The problem in that I can't get my hand into the guitar far enough to push the edge top back up where it needs to be. I was thinking of making a couple jacks out of turnbuckles and putting them in there to push the top up, but I'm not sure I have room to do that either. It's really not a very deep body. The guitar is beautiful, and was hand made in Brazil. It has gorgeous hand carving on the headstock, and there is not a scratch on it, other than the damage from the lady's ex. I was wondering about trying to just replace the top, but I don't know if the guitar is worth it. I'm pretty sure that I could fix the top and then sand it and refinish it. But there just isn't room to work inside it. Anyone have any suggestions? Here are the pictures that she sent me of the guitar before I picked it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 That's a surprisingly large job to get the guitar back up to its original playing condition. You'll probably put more time and money into the repair than the guitar is worth. Have you replaced the on an acoustic before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 No, I haven't. I was sitting here thinking about it earlier, and I'm wondering about taking the back off, so I can access the back side of the front that way. I have fixed numerous cracked necks, but never the face of an acoustic. I think that if I can get to the back side of the face, I can fix it. All the wood is there, it just needs put back in place and glued. I figured that since I got the guitar for free that I don't have much to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I have supported the broken section from inside the guitar with some cedar cleats. I have it all put back into position. I think I am going to have to use some wood filler to completely finish the job. I was hoping to not have to do this, but I don't see any other choice. I was thinking that I would put a tobacco burst on the top to help cover the work area. But now I'm wondering if I would be better off to repaint the whole top. I don't know which way will be better. I'm not worried about the value of the guitar, since I got it for free. I doubt that I will want to sell it once it's done. I'm just looking to have a decent classical guitar when it's done. Also, the experience of fixing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Here is the progress so far. The first picture is the guitar sanded down. The second is the guitar with the base coat on it. Hopefully, I can get the burst done this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted December 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Here is the burst with the first few coats of clear on top. Since this guitar is from the 70's, I tried to make it looked "aged". I figured that I got this guitar for free, so I would use it for some experimenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 OMG - That burst is awful. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted December 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Well, luckily your opinion doesn't mean sh*t to me. It was a free guitar that I got to EZPERIMENT WITH. I can always sand it down and refinish it. Thanks for your negative comments, douche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Keep it chilled. The burst didn't work out but you'll always learn something from it. Nobody starts perfectly! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Well, luckily your opinion doesn't mean sh*t to me. It was a free guitar that I got to EZPERIMENT WITH. I can always sand it down and refinish it. Thanks for your negative comments, douche. Ummm... that's was weird. Why post on a public forum if you don't care about other people's opinion and at the 1st negative comment, insult people? I know you don't care what I think but... personally, I'd either redo the finish or just shoot it straight up black. You should try doing the burst with dyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I've got to agree with Guitar2005 here. People aren't always going to like your stuff, and the goal of sharing is to learn, take feedback, and improve. He's right, that is a poorly executed burst. Learn from it. Strip it. And try again. Also, to put this in perspective to you: Bursts are hard. Don't get so bent out of shape cause you messed up your first one. Heck, Fender used to mess up bursts all the time and they'd turn those into solid colors instead. That's why on some old Fenders where the finish has worn through you'll see it go: red/primer/tobacco sunburst/wood. You're not alone. However, with responses like the above... you might be eventually. Take from this post what you will. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 My suggestion, for what its worth, is to strip the burst and start over. One rule I set for myself (but sadly not always follow) is to test on scrap material. Obviously you cannot test the reapir on scrap, but the sun bursting technique can and should be tested om scrap. The key to a nice burst is to feather the solid paint very lightly. Start with the spray gun, or the can, at about a 45 deg angle to the top, aiming it at the very edge of the body, almost missing the guitar. Lay down thin layers and build the burst in several applications, taking the guitar out in good light to check the progression between applications. I think that even though you need to have a pretty wide burst on account of the placement and size of the repair you can still make this a nice looking guitar. A simple thing like scraping the binding and abalone (?) purling clean would also help this look better. The main problem I think most see with the burst on display is that it is to wide and to opaque. However my heartfelt suggestion is to not try to fake age. Very few reliced guitars look aged, just reliced, and relicing a guitar is an artform in itself. So if you are not 100% confident on finishing, it might be a too big step aiming for a nice aged look. On the up side you should have lotsa cred for trying a very tricky repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) My issue with the comment above (guitar2005) was that there is a way of offering advice, suggestions, and criticism without being a jerk about it. Everyone else has seemed to be able to do it. To just tell someone that what they have dome looks awful, does not help them learn what they may have done wrong, or where they can improve. As you say, why post on a public forum if you are not here to help, and just to criticize? I am going to sand it down and do something different with the finish. It's no big deal. I was just experimenting with this guitar. I toyed with just making it a solid color on the top, but thought I'd try a burst before I made my mind up completely. My concern with a solid color on the top is that the rest of the guitar is a dark-ish brown color. I really don't want to refinish the whole thing. Thank you SwedishLuthier. Good advice as always. Edited December 9, 2014 by mairj40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 My issue with the comment above (guitar2005) was that there is a way of offering advice, suggestions, and criticism without being a jerk about it. Everyone else has seemed to be able to do it. To just tell someone that what they have dome looks awful, does not help them learn what they may have done wrong, or where they can improve. As you say, why post on a public forum if you are not here to help, and just to criticize? Glad to see that you're doing this one over again. but just to be clear, I never stated "why post on a public forum if you are not here to help, and just to criticize?" This is what I wrote (see post #10) "Why post on a public forum if you don't care about other people's opinion and at the 1st negative comment, insult people?" IMO, your insults were not warranted but its your life and you may live your life as you wish. Personally, when someone criticizes my work, my gut reaction is never to insult them but rather to try and understand. As I stated earlier, dyes can help in getting a much nicer burst with a much more gradual look. Personally, I would consider applying a new veneer on top of that or go with a solid black colour. If you redo the top, whether it be solid colour or new wood, Rosette overlays can be had pretty easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Criticism is a valid form of commentary. It is entirely subjective as to how it is received and optional as to how it is delivered. Ultimately, if you take offence where it was not meant, that is your issue. If Guitar2005 was being abusive, then that is different. The burst did turn out awfully, and he even said "sorry". Obviously so as not to offend you, but not understate the fact of the matter either. Experiment away! It's all cool. We've all messed up in earnest at some point, it is just down to what you take from the experience and how you learn from it. Keep going, you'll get closer to the mark and expand your knowledge as you go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted December 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Right. My point was that if we are all supposed to be here to help each other, not to just post a one or two sentence criticism and be done. On another note. Thank you for your input. I do appreciate the constructive criticism and advise. That is what this forum is supposed to be for. Thank you. I'm over it. I sanded the finish off of the top last night. I will try and do a solid black top. I was worried how it would look with brown sides and back, but I have seen pictures from manufacturers where the tops are custom colors and the sides and back are brown. Not really me first choice of how to finish it, but I'll give it a shot. Edited December 10, 2014 by mairj40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted December 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 I guess this is something like how it will look . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Not a thing wrong with that. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 It's a very flat look. The thing with acoustic tops is that they are invariably a softwood. Big differences in hardness and seasonal movement between the earlywood and latewood rings. Getting a consistent look that stays that way is next to impossible without drowning the soundboard in all the things that make it sound cruddy. I wouldn't choose to paint a soundboard myself. Just giving you the heads up about the territory you're heading into here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted December 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 It's a very flat look. The thing with acoustic tops is that they are invariably a softwood. Big differences in hardness and seasonal movement between the earlywood and latewood rings. Getting a consistent look that stays that way is next to impossible without drowning the soundboard in all the things that make it sound cruddy. I wouldn't choose to paint a soundboard myself. Just giving you the heads up about the territory you're heading into here. Yeah, that's another thing I am concerned about. I don't want to kill the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 I like it. My stage Acoustic has a black top with dark rosewood sides. It looks great and resonates nicely. Add a nice overlay rosette and you'll have something real nice IMO. In terms of "paint" over the soundboard.... I doubt that the OP is going to paint the guitar with latex, household paint or something like that. Lacquers can be tinted and the end result (tone wise) would be no different than some clear lacquer coats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 I have a couple options as far as paint. I have the Encore Brown from Behlen that I can use, but it needs to be put on pretty thick in order to cover the work area. Or, I have some black lacquer that I can use. Not sure which one to go with, bit I'm leaning towars the straight black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Re the effect of the paint: Have you stringed her up and tested the sound after the repair? I wouldn't be too concerned about ruining the sound unless it is a top notch sounding guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mairj40 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Re the effect of the paint: Have you stringed her up and tested the sound after the repair? I wouldn't be too concerned about ruining the sound unless it is a top notch sounding guitar No, I haven't put strings on it yet. Maybe I will do that over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Do keep us posted on the guitar's progress. I'm interested to see how such a repair turns out. I think you can do something real nice with this. Is that top solid wood or a laminate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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