59 Les Paul Guitar Build. My 1st Build

[ScottR]

I don't know about a planer, but I'd think a thickness sander would take care of the problem. I haven't actually tried one though, so that is basically an educated opinion only. You can use clamps and glue to take some bows out, depending on the thickness of the wood and the amount of deflection involved. Too much deflection and you could be risking cracks. You also need to insure good clamping pressure over the entire surface, because the bowed areas are going to be trying to pull away from the wood you are glueing them to. You can get gaps or wide visible glue lines. It's much better to glue two surfaces that are not fighting each other.

SR

[Blackdog]

I went to the wood mill last Saturday to get the body sanded down to the correct thickness and to get the bow out of the maple top. The owner said putting the top through the planer or thickness sander would not help. He said that since the bow is not bad the planer would just push the top down flat when running it through and it would bow back up after it come out. He also said that once you glued and clamp down the top to the body it would be enough to get it flat again.

What do you guys think?

I will probably use the method that ScottR used for his top. I just need to get it little bit flatter before the glue process.

I did get a new pies of Mahogany for the neck. I was able to get a block of Honduras Mahogany for 18.00. I should be able to get two necks out of it. Now my body is African Mahogany, but should not make a difference. The grain makings on the neck and body almost mach exactly.

I have been working on getting my temples finished. I have not worked on anything in a few days because of the bad weather we are getting in TN. I think I will have my body cut out this weekend and maybe do some routing. We will see.

Have you tried sprinkling some water on the concave side of the wood and pressing it flat for a couple of days ?

It should remove some, if not all, of the cupping. Probably enough to use directly.

[Chris G]

I don't know about a planer, but I'd think a thickness sander would take care of the problem. I haven't actually tried one though, so that is basically an educated opinion only. You can use clamps and glue to take some bows out, depending on the thickness of the wood and the amount of deflection involved. Too much deflection and you could be risking cracks. You also need to insure good clamping pressure over the entire surface, because the bowed areas are going to be trying to pull away from the wood you are glueing them to. You can get gaps or wide visible glue lines. It's much better to glue two surfaces that are not fighting each other.

I think the same thing. If I do not prep the top it would just fight the body to stay flat.

Have you tried sprinkling some water on the concave side of the wood and pressing it flat for a couple of days ?

It should remove some, if not all, of the cupping. Probably enough to use directly.

I have not thought of that. As get to that point I may look into that.

I have made some progress on my templates, but none on the guitar it self. I have been working some jigs for the tools I have while working on the templates. There is a body routing jig that I found on this site that I'm going to build. I need a find a good neck profile jig. I seen a a few all the same concept, but each one is a little different. When I don't have time to work on the templates or guitar I have been making my build guide instructions. That way I have something to look at while building and so I don't rush and make a mistake.

I have a question on the template making. I am using a drum sander attachment to the drill press. I am doing my best to get the templates nice and smooth and even. How do you fight to get templates to not have little sanding bumps and pits on the MDF? I am not applying to much presser and doing long even passes.

I cant wait to for it to get nice out. My wife is going through school to get her Masters and I have to watch the kids while she is doing school work (which is almost everyday). Once it gets nice out I will be able to open the garage and have the kids play outside and get some work and progress done.

Once I can get the templates done I will be able to start work on the guitar. I prefer that the templates are done and perfect before starting the guitar. If anyone one has tips on the template making I am all ears.

Thanks again Guys!!

[Chris G]

I have progress to report on. I got my body shape template done and started to work on the actual body. Here is a some pictures.

I rough cut the body on the band saw.

Now I need to flush trim the body so its even with the template. The only flush trim I have is a 1 1/2 inch so its not long enough. I will need to go and get a 2 inch bit.

I have a few questions for you veterans

1. When using the flush trim, should I put a slightly larger bearing on the Bit? My thought is if there is any imperfections on the template I will be able to sand it down to the correct measurements. I am learning the tools and techniques as I go.

2. If I got the body a bit closer with the band saw would I need to flush trim or could get I use my drum sander for the drill press and get the correct final shape? I'm just asking because I seen people do that too.

3. I had another question but cannot think of it. If you all have anything tips on the subject that would be much appreciated.

I think I will have to order the bit from the internet I was out yesterday a a few hardware stores and could not find the 2 inch bit. If I have to wait I think I will start on getting the neck cut out.

[ScottR]

You should spend some time and true up your template till it is exactly the right shape and then use the bearing that comes with your pattern following bit. It is much easier to clean up your tmplate than truing up the full width body wood. If you cannot get a longer bit, see if you can get a bit with the bearing on the bottom. Once you have cut as far as you can with your top bearing bit, you can take the template off, turn your part over and use the bottom bearing to follow the part you have already cut to your template.

SR

[Muzz]

Great slab of timber for the body, yep Scott's advice for the bottom bearing bit to finish off is the technique I have used a few times,

[ScottR]

Also you will do yourself a favor by using your band saw to get a wee bit closer to the outline in a few places. Those pattern following bits are much happier if they are cutting smaller amounts of wood. Less prone to chipping too. 1/8" is a good target.

SR

[Blackdog]

You should spend some time and true up your template till it is exactly the right shape and then use the bearing that comes with your pattern following bit. It is much easier to clean up your tmplate than truing up the full width body wood. If you cannot get a longer bit, see if you can get a bit with the bearing on the bottom. Once you have cut as far as you can with your top bearing bit, you can take the template off, turn your part over and use the bottom bearing to follow the part you have already cut to your template.

SR

This is very good advise ! Get a clean template first !

You'll have enough work sanding the routing marks off, you don't want to have to deal with shape correction on something thicker than 1/2".

Also you will do yourself a favor by using your band saw to get a wee bit closer to the outline in a few places. Those pattern following bits are much happier if they are cutting smaller amounts of wood. Less prone to chipping too. 1/8" is a good target.

SR

Another good advise !

To avoid tear outs I run the pieces through the Robo-sander first. These template following drum sanders present zero tear out risks and the follower plastic bearing is slightly oversized with respect to the sanding cylinder, so it leaves a bit of margin.

Then I use the routing bits, and since there's very little material to remove the job is much cleaner and the risk of nasty accidents is reduced significantly.

[Chris G]

Great slab of timber for the body, yep Scott's advice for the bottom bearing bit to finish off is the technique I have used a few times,

I think so too. This place I get my wood from is one of the best within 100 miles and its only 2 miles from my house. He has a massive amount of exotic woods.

Thanks guys!! I am ordering a bit today. The one I have does not have the option to move the barring from top to bottom. My template is all most the 100% its just has a few small bumps from sanding. I will work on it some more. My grandfather is coming this weekend to help with new floors and a little remodeling. I will get him to help me get as close to the template with the band saw and get the rough cut of the neck too. Like I said before I learning all these tools as I go. I feel confident that I could do it, but he has 50 years exp. with woodworking and tools. I figured I would use that to my advantage.

Another good advise !

To avoid tear outs I run the pieces through the Robo-sander first. These template following drum sanders present zero tear out risks and the follower plastic bearing is slightly oversized with respect to the sanding cylinder, so it leaves a bit of margin.

Then I use the routing bits, and since there's very little material to remove the job is much cleaner and the risk of nasty accidents is reduced significantly.

I just bought a new pack of drum sander attachments. Is there a way to build/or add the flush guide to them? I would hate to have to take them back and get different ones. The wife is already on me for the amount of tools I am having to buy. I tell her this is going to be the start of a great thing, but still gives me that look when I come home with something new.

Thanks Guys!! I may be able to do some more work on the templates if I have the energy.

[ScottR]

Just wait till she starts claiming to be a guitar builder's widow.

SR

[Blackdog]

I just bought a new pack of drum sander attachments. Is there a way to build/or add the flush guide to them?

No idea… It will depend on what your attachments look like.

I have to admit that it took me a while to convince myself of buying the robo-sander things. ANd at the time they were sold individually !!

But once I got them I found several uses for them. They are fantastic for shaping the back profile of the necks after the rough cut, using a jig like this:

[Blackdog]

The wife is already on me for the amount of tools I am having to buy. I tell her this is going to be the start of a great thing, but still gives me that look when I come home with something new.

Involve her in the process !! Get her to help you on something, it works wonders !

[ScottR]

That is actually good advice....but it helps to know that Blackdog's wife is really really really good.

SR

[Chris G]

I will see if she wants to help with the finishing stage. She does not like tools, so she would not be much help. I am going to get my daughter to help once I start doing hand sanding. I thought it would be fun for her.

Great news I just was looking at my top and the bow is out. It lays flat now and I did not do anything. It could be the warmer days now that has flatten it out.

Here is the a couple picks of the drum sander. I maybe able to build a pace that I could attach as a robo-sander. This one is the thinnest one.

What do you think?

[Chris G]

I have been slacking on the Guitar and Forms. The past 3 weeks we have been short handed at work and I have been putting in some long hours. I had one day where I worked 19 hours straight and it was not fun. Between work and some renovations done on the house there not been much time for the guitar or talking with you guys, but I have been keeping up with my daily beer intake. With all that said I finally got some work done on the body last night. I got my flush trim router bit and took and all of your advice with the getting my cuts on the band saw as close to the template as I could. When doing another pass on the band saw I did get a few cuts that was a bit past my template. I flushed trimmed the body and ran it on the drum sander to smooth out. I still have a few places I need to smooth out a bit more, but looks pretty good now. When starting the guitar, I made a few small mistakes and I was beating myself up, because of that. Since then I have more mistakes, but hell its my first guitar build and I am going to make mistakes. Now when I do make a mistake, because I am new with woodworking, guitar building, and all the tools that go with it, I don't let it bother me. I move on, fix my mistake and learn from it. Now if i route too deep or really screw up I will be upset, let just hope that does not happen. Here are some pictures of my progress.

Here you can see some tear out. I still need to sand down another 1/16 an inch. That should get rid of the tear out and also will round over the edges.

Here is some of the saw marks I was talking about. I have sanded most of all the marks out, but still have some left.

All in all I'm happy with the progress that I have made so far even with the mistakes. Once I get another free minute today I will look at everyone's progress on there builds.

Cheers!!

[ScottR]

That is looking good and your template is much cleaner. Good job. And you gave yourself good advice on mistakes. A lot of them are not even mistakes.....they are just wood working and cleaning up.

All us make mistakes, or have unfortunate things happen. Part of having a high level of skill is the ability to hide mistakes or mishaps. You should check out sdshirtman's thread from last year. He got a burn mark on a curly maple top right between the pickups. And scooped out the burnt wood and replaced with another piece that matched the grain AND the figure. It was invisible man. Probably the best save I've ever seen.

I usually don't even call mine mistakes, I call it the wood telling me which way it wants to go and modify the design a bit to give it it's head. Although there was a one build using a piece of ziricote that was possessed by demons. RAD had one those too. You have to be careful with ziricote......

SR

[Prostheta]

My only concern is that you have shaped around the body/heel area and there seems to be a visible dip. That area is usually best being routed perfectly flat using a straightedge and bearing-guided router bit (or perhaps on the table saw by squaring off the end of the blank). This will affect how well the neck's heel fits flush to the body. Whilst not a concern in terms of stability (butt joints have the least strength) it will be quite a cosmetic issue.

I agree with all advice offered so far. Especially on the bandsaw/router bit advice. A router bit should ideally not be cutting more than a 1/3rd of it's diameter. Routers are shaping tools and not for coarse stock removal. On hardwoods like Maple/Birch where the cut is shaping to the finished size I try and stick to removing no more than 3mm (1/8") of stock in depth/width each pass. It allows the router speed to be reduced in order to (more or less) prevent burning, aids in safe stock removal because of that lower speed (the gullets of the router bit needs to take all the material out of the cut without filling up) plus climb cutting is less problematic.

I've never used a robosander as I prefer to use routers. Increasing the size of the bearing or using a guide bushing allows you to creep as close to the finished size as possible whereupon you can use your router to create a climb-cut clean finish. It sounds backwards (climb cutting is backwards!) but I think the finish of a sharp clean router bit is superior to that of a coarse grit off a sander. Once you have had to clean out 80 grit scratches from endgrain you might get this feeling too! This reminds me, I should order a few more bearings for my binding cutter. I recall the supplier doing bearings *larger* in addition to the usual smaller sizes. Instant offset!

On the other hand as ScottR says, woods like Ziricote are immensely tetchy. The structure of the wood does not lend itself to planing or routing unless you are using a helical cutter (planing) or the rotating end of the router bit instead of the knife edge. Climb-cutting helps, but not in all circumstance. Long cutter contact will happily scoop out, chip and crack Ziricote. Get ready for plenty of sanding.

Apologies for only skim-reading the thread. If I've said anything that is hugely redundant or based on assumptions, you've got me.

There's a good amount of friendly experience backing you up here in this thread. Best of luck and I am sure this will end up a great project for you! :-)

[Chris G]

My only concern is that you have shaped around the body/heel area and there seems to be a visible dip. That area is usually best being routed perfectly flat using a straightedge and bearing-guided router bit (or perhaps on the table saw by squaring off the end of the blank). This will affect how well the neck's heel fits flush to the body. Whilst not a concern in terms of stability (butt joints have the least strength) it will be quite a cosmetic issue.

First off thanks for the reply.

I have the same concerns on the on the dip too. Is there a way to fixed that? I was just gong to sand it out the best I could. I know the body is just right at 13 inches wide and that is spec on the 59 Les Pauls. I still have a bit more sanding to do and would expect to be right under that. I have been reading on the 59's and see no two guitars were alike they varied a slight bit. I am not shooting for an exact replica. If I stray a little bit on some of the specs that is fine with me. I want it to be my own and not a replica and will put my own name on it.

Thanks for the tips on the router bits.

[Prostheta]

I can't think of an easy fix, but I am sure other people will chime in.

No problems, re: router bits. The rule of thumb is to remember that buying new router bits (and caring for them) is cheaper than a tired, chipped and blunt one writing off a relatively-expensive piece of wood. I tend to lean onto the side of routing purely because I have had free access to a variety of routers plus a reasonable router table. The stability and working choices these afford mean that routing becomes a much more flexible shaping operation. Far more so than a single hand router in a more limited space. Use what you have wisely and most things that wouldn't expect to manage can be achieved. Just do so safely :-)

[ScottR]

Were it me, I'd do just as you've planned for the same reasons. I see no reason not to modify things as needed even if you are aiming for a recognizable shape. Sand or cut that straight and flush and then blend the curve into the upper bout as needed. You can make the adjustment on your template or use your template to make another or just stick a straight piece of mdf onto your body as a router guide and route it straight then clean up by sanding.

SR

[Chris G]

I cleaned up the sides sanding by hand. I started with the drum sander, but decided to take it slow and sand by hand. I penciled the sides for reference and marked the troubled spots.

Once I got the hand sanding done I started on dip on where the neck pocket will be. I took ScottR method and put 60 grit sandpaper with double sided tape, so I could have a flat sanding surface.

I was able to get it flat enough to were I do not think it would show once the neck is set in. I started to smooth out the back and clean up the tear out with some old fashioned elbow grease.

It took me 10-20 minutes to get it smoothed out.

I still have some tear out showing, but will be cleaned up when I round over the edges.

Here is the body. I am happy the way it came out. The measurements are almost spot on even with all the sanding I had to do. I know its not perfect, but I am supper happy of the progress I got so far.

[ScottR]

It's looking good but you still have a few bumps on the bottom. If you take the body and drag the bottom edge along your sanding table while rotating it--kind of a rocking chair motion, but pulling the edge along the sandpaper, you will smooth those curves out. I'm going to be doing the same thing to mine in a couple of weeks.

SR

[Chris G]

Thanks for the great tip!! I'm a big fan of the sanding table. I will try that tomorrow if time permits. I'm so glad I stumbled upon this site you guys are the best!

[Chris G]

It's looking good but you still have a few bumps on the bottom. If you take the body and drag the bottom edge along your sanding table while rotating it--kind of a rocking chair motion, but pulling the edge along the sandpaper, you will smooth those curves out. I'm going to be doing the same thing to mine in a couple of weeks.

SR

I did what you said and got most of it out. I traced an out line on paper to see what the shape looked like.

On paper it looks good. I took another picture of the body without the template and when I looked closely I could still see a it needs to be sanded some more. What do you think? I don't think pictures are doing it justice, because it feels correct with no bumps. I will bring it to work tomorrow and have one of the guys there that works with wood to look at it.

[ScottR]

I've got an eye that picks up that kind of stuff......I see the same minor bump that I think you see. All in all it is much better and probably nobody will see it. On the other hand you already have and once seen you won't be able to unsee it.

You can go back to the table now or not worry about it till further along. Odds are good it will come out whenever you get to the finish sanding stage anyway.

It is looking really good, by the way.

SR