ScottR Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 I find Prostheta's advice right on the money. In terms of carving advice, what kind (shape) of chisel are you planning to use? I use palm gouges almost exclusively in my carves.http://www.chippingaway.com/WoodCarving/SwissMade-PfeilTools/SwissMadePfeilToolsPalmSize.htm The only exception is when I need to remove a lot of wood and then I use a larger gouge and a mallet. The gouges are the ones with the curved or scooped cutting edge. The standard flat edged chisel is great for squaring up round cornered routes or removing material on a flat plane, but the corners will hang in the wood if you try to cut into it to create contours. The gouges' curved cutting edge gives you a cutting surface at the edge of each scoop of wood you remove so it comes out cleanly. Some rules to follow: Always know where your off hand is....make sure your cut is not aimed at it. Keep your tools very sharp....a dull edge is much more dangerous than a scary sharp one. Find the direction of cut that each pice of wood likes best....sometimes it will be with the grain, others straight across it, and often it will be at an angle to the grain. Cutting with the grain can cause torn out splinters, so be watchful of that. Remember that carving is a subtractive process. You can always cut out a little more, but never a little less. Stop carving before you reach your target depth. Finish the shape with sandpaper. Have fun. I love doing that part! SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 I hoped you would come in and share your experience! The point about wood splintering is a real key point of technique. It's important to know when the chisel is slicing or simply parting. Sometimes you want either depending on the grain direction, however when you want it to slice and instead the wood only lets you part, bad things happen. There's nothing more satisfying than paring off a thin shaving of endgrain that stays in one piece, cuts smoothly and leaves a dark lustrous surface. If your chisels manage that, they'll go anywhere with the right guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hi guys, thank you very much for the information, this is totally new to me... I think the biggest issue is keeping the chisel always sharp, so I'm gonna learn about that in deep. I only have one chisel, you can see it in the second image, first post. Is kinda spoon chisel, and it's the same brand as yours, Scott... I really would love to have the complete set, but they are expensive... maybe in the future. I bought today a press drill, the cheapest one in the shop. I finally have drilled the screws holes to bolt the neck on, I just need to cut the screws - they are too long - and then I can start carving. This gonna be funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Wicked. More tools in the right hands is always good to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Sorry, I was calling it chisel while it's a gouge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 A gouge is just a concave chisel. ;-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Neck fitting. Here marking the holes. Screws are too long, I had to cut them. The access will be recessed, that's why I had to short the screws. Those deep holes will disappear with the carve, I guess... Now it's one piece. Perfect fit, no gaps. I need to print some carving lines before proceeding, so I've moved on with other tasks. Since I have a press drill now, I can make the side dots from a piece of bone. Mounted in the drill and sanded with two blocks... Until I get a Ø2mm cilinder... this is not funny, it takes a long hour or so, but I have no option. Then divided the cilinder in 12 parts, 4mm long. And glued with epoxi + ebony dust... Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmensik Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Wonderfull. I wonder how the upper bout extension just touches the neck, which is pulled from that thin edge, will there be a hair thin gap soon? It is like two cantilevers pulled from one another. With the sidedots I feel with you. I made the same with ebony and black walnut in an accu-drill, from 3mm square to 1,5mm rounded. It was fast, but ebony kept chipping. Accu-drill chuck can take much thinner rods than a drill press. Just held it in my hand with a folded sandpaper, moving it in and out. Slowly, it gets hot. Photo with a 6mm skunkstrip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I wonder how the upper bout extension just touches the neck, which is pulled from that thin edge, will there be a hair thin gap soon? It is like two cantilevers pulled from one another. Yes, that thin edge will be removed soon, I didn't want to route it with the template, but with the edge of the neck pocket, which ensures a perfect joint with no gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I don't think i've ever used a gouge with that long of a shaft, you'll have to let me know how that works for you. That is indeed a good brand, there are a number of good ones out there and they all are a bit pricey. The only one that I would stear you away from is Flexsteel. Too much flex for me and I don't think they hold an edge as well as others. This is looking good--you are moving right along. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Gouges with longer handles are generally for constant long cuts (grooving for example) with two hands as opposed to the shorter "chunk whittling" of palm gouges. Personally - given the chance - I would see how each style works within how you apply it. Your experience using palm gouges likely developed your techniques in that direction, Scott. The test would be seeing how each works on a big archtop style carve with a recurve. Plenty of working with the grain and against it; you'd soon figure out which one was your friend. Longer handles might work out as an easier way to improve control, spreading and directing motivating force with both hands. Despite not being a gouge person myself, I'd likely use the fingers of my left (non-dominant) hand under the shaft to guide/restrict and add forward motion with the right. Damn you two....I can't afford to be gouge GASing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Damn you two....I can't afford to be gouge GASing!!! I have been watching videos of people using these devil's weapons for two days and I get impressed... I should started with them way earlier, they probably would saved me some headaches while carving tops in the past. As soon as I have time I will search for all the stuff to sharp them nicely, and maybe buy some other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 This little power strop is something I got many moons ago and is very useful for keeping the edges of your gouges touched up. You can mount your portable drill in a vice and load the wheel up with white buffing compound and you are good to go. http://www.amazon.com/Flexcut-PWS-Leather-Power-Strop/dp/B000ZRW9SO SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Very nice. I use simple Autosol cream, sold as a chrome polish rather than a full compound block. Essentially, the honing compound that Tormek sell for the leather honing wheel side is just that. I've had chisels so sharp that they remove your fingerprint. Scary having those things around in some respects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Chrome polish huh? Amazing how many ways the same stuff is packaged. The first strop compound I ever got was a little bottle of powdered aluminum oxide. I got it nealy 30 years ago and still have most of it left. A little goes a long way. I get a little self conscious using it when anyone else is around since it looks a lot like other white finely powdered substances..... SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thanks for the link, Scott... that looks nice, I guess it has to be used at low rpm, right? I've heard about different polishing compounds, I guess any metal polish does the job. The good thing is that I'm learning about the existing stuff, which makes way easier to find it in the hardware shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Couldn't resist to sand this today... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thanks for the link, Scott... that looks nice, I guess it has to be used at low rpm, right? I've heard about different polishing compounds, I guess any metal polish does the job. The good thing is that I'm learning about the existing stuff, which makes way easier to find it in the hardware shop. Yes low is best.....but I have seen very few portable drills that go fast enough to worry about. If you really put some pressure with the edge against the rotating strop for an extended period of time you can get it to turn blue, but there is no reason to do that. It really only takes a few seconds to polish out any burrs and knicks and be ready to go back to work with a razor sharp tool. BTW the lengths you went to for your bone dots is amazing. I'm thinking you are enjoying the problem solving aspect of this build, as in "how can I get done what I want done with what I have on hand?" Very cool. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yes low is best.....but I have seen very few portable drills that go fast enough to worry about. If you really put some pressure with the edge against the rotating strop for an extended period of time you can get it to turn blue, but there is no reason to do that. It really only takes a few seconds to polish out any burrs and knicks and be ready to go back to work with a razor sharp tool. But you only ca use that for the outer part, right?... To strop the inner part you need to cover a cylinder with leather or something like that, right? BTW the lengths you went to for your bone dots is amazing. I'm thinking you are enjoying the problem solving aspect of this build, as in "how can I get done what I want done with what I have on hand?" Well, it is not easy to get Ø2mm cylinders made of plastic, like stewmac has... or those supercool MOP side dots I've seen in ebay, I don't have account now... and I tried/thought some more options to make the side dots: toothpicks, nails, even chupachups sticks... but none of them convinced to me. The bone option seems to be the most handy one at the moment and the one which gives me the best results. A pain in the ass though. Solving problems is the funniest part of the whole thing, if I don't introduce something new to me on every build, it would make no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 The chrome polish also works very nicely for polishing closed-grain woods. Once you're up to Micromesh territory you can get Ebony and Ziricote, etc. like glass. Very good for our furniture which has hundreds of Ebony plugs around it. Also, very useful for fingerboards and fretwork as long as it doesn't get mashed into pores or under the frets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yes low is best.....but I have seen very few portable drills that go fast enough to worry about. If you really put some pressure with the edge against the rotating strop for an extended period of time you can get it to turn blue, but there is no reason to do that. It really only takes a few seconds to polish out any burrs and knicks and be ready to go back to work with a razor sharp tool. But you only ca use that for the outer part, right?... To strop the inner part you need to cover a cylinder with leather or something like that, right? I usually use the corner of the wheel (that sounds strange) to get to the inside. Most of the scoops of mine are shallow enough for that to work. Another thing that is often done is to use your gouge to cut a groove in a scrap of relatively soft hardwood like poplar or Spanish cedar that is the shape of your gouge. Turn the gouge over and make one that matches the inside. This is easiest to do on the edge of the wood scrap. Coat the surface of your channels in the wood with your polishing compound of choice and you now have a strop made to fit your gouge. It does not have to have a leather surface. Actually MDF should work quite well and the surface of it should hold the polishing compound nicely. the stick of compound that comes with the Flexsteel power strop is softer than most and can be used to coat the surface of just about anything. It marks like a crayon and can be purchaced separately....at least it can over here. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Another thing that is often done is to use your gouge to cut a groove in a scrap of relatively soft hardwood like poplar or Spanish cedar that is the shape of your gouge. Turn the gouge over and make one that matches the inside. This is easiest to do on the edge of the wood scrap. Coat the surface of your channels in the wood with your polishing compound of choice and you now have a strop made to fit your gouge. It does not have to have a leather surface. I've heard about that technique in youtube, I think I'm gonna use it with pine, which is the only soft wood I have... I also have some remains of alder, let's see... what I don't have is leather. I went to the shop and bought a 2 sided stone (fine and hard, still not sure which side is fine and which one is hard) and that white past for polishing... there were other colors, like blue or green, but since you were talking about that white stuff, I got it... the labels are in german, so I really don't understand where's the difference... both thingees cost 4 euros, so I think it was a good investment. And these are the two gouges I have. The good one (in the right) is already sharp, made the arm haircut test, but still not a razor blade, so I will strop it before using it. Here, the angle is in the inner side, which I think it will be a pain in the ass if I have to give it a heavy sharp some day... maybe with sandpaper? The one in the left is a cheap gouge I bought long time ago and never used. I've realized that it has a bite in the edge. Luckily, this one has the angle in the outer side so I think it won't be a problem to get a sharp edge back with the stone... and the inner side with sandpaper? Thanks for all the info, it's really appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'm pretty sure it won't take long to figure out which side of the stone is hard and which is soft. The white paste stick is good and is what I always use. All my gouges have the bevel on the outside like your bottom picture. I agree that the one with the bevel on the inside will be a pain in the backside to sharpen. Sandpaper works very well to sharpen the insides of gouges. Wrap some around a dowel or any type of rod until it is a good diameter to match your gouge. You really want to do all your sharpening on the beveled side and just keep the flat side clean. If you introduce any bevel to the flat side of the edge you increase the angle of the cutting edge which makes it harder to push through the wood. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Here's the mockup of the carve in the backside... it is not going to be easy, as there are kinda three levels and some areas couldn't figure out myself yet... I think I got it, but it's very hard to visualize in 3d for my little brain, so I hope to follow the natural curves, step by step, thinking about the step order, and so on... but I'm excited about it, can't wait to start. Thanks Scott and Prostheta for all the help, I've read again the last three pages and found a lot of good info which I didn't understand the first time. I was playing a little bit with the sharpening tools and I think I have the gouge ready to work. Let's see... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 This ought to turn out sweet. Have fun. Where's that little popcorn munching emoticon when you need it? SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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