2.5itim Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I guess you could say I've been bitten by the bug!! This will be my the first of 2 builds for my good buddy, even tho we live half way across the country from each other he's still been my best friend since the day I was born! We grew up across the street from each other and honestly if it wasn't for him I probably wouldn't even be a guitar player! So he saw what I did with the ibanez sz and the hackberry guitar that I'm building right now and decided he wanted me to make something similar to a prs custom 24 and prs single cut, this one will be the custom 24! Specs, African mahogany body African mahogany set neck, I haven't done a set neck yet so I'm pretty worried about that!! Flamed or quilt maple top he's having a hard time deciding ( haven't purchased yet, if someone knows a good place to purchase book matched tops in the us I'd be happy to here about it) Prs tremonti bridge/neck pickups (not purchased yet) hipshot tremolo (not purchased yet) top finish similar to prs's black gold body and neck stained dark/black ish He's really helping me out here, the deal is he buys all the supplies and then if he feels like it he can throw me some extra cash for my time, I'm not really concerned about the extra cash because he's paying for materials for me to get more experience pretty much! Anyways here we go, went to woodcraft today and picked up the mahogany and rosewood, they didn't have any 6/4 mahogany for the body so had to buy 8/4. I got the neck planed down to .8" from 4/4, body planed to 1.125" from 8/4 and fretboard planed to .25 from .375". Im gonna try and get the body board cut into 2 pieces tonight and get the blank glued up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 Was able to get the body blank glued up, needs a little bit of level sanding which I will go buy a extra wide sanding belt and glue it to a 3/4" piece of mdf as pro mentioned! I tried taping down a couple sheets of sand paper for the hackberry guitar and while it worked it was a nightmare so I'll do it right for this one. We decided on a top for this one, I just went onto northrideghardwoods website and screen shot every top in the thickness we need. So here's a pic of the body blank glued up and a pic of the top that he chose, btw holy crap is curly maple tops expensive! It's almost unbelievable how much they are!! also in the pic of the body you can see there is two screw holes which I am extremely mad about, I didn't notice it until after I made my first pass with the planer, how can woodcraft try to sell something like that and be ok with it? Anyways I'm going to put that side up so the top will cover it but still, if I'm spending $80 on a board I would expect to not have screw holes in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 On a plus side I have finally learned how to half assly setup and use my hand planer, I have hated this tool since the day I bought it 3 years ago and today has been the first time I've actually been able to get a somewhat decent ribbon out of it! It's defenitely gonna need a lot of sanding but it's at least level now so I can't complain to much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Beware da bug! It bites hard and is addictive. Be careful planing the curly maple. The more intense the figure, the more it wants to chip out during planing and routing. I get most of my top woods at Northwest Timber. http://www.nwtimber.com/ Many use Cook Woods. https://www.cookwoods.com/ And Gilmer Woods is an old standby. https://www.gilmerwood.com/ And yes, the coolest quilts and curly maple are very pricey. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Well, those woods are really expensive, but they are so cool,,, Madinter (http://www.madinter.com/) has some decent prices and serves all over Europe, but not even close to those wonderful AAAAA flamed maple tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I ended up buying that top that I posted the picture of about 10 minutes ago. It ended up being about $225 after shipping! Thanks for the comments on the planing and routing! I bought it the thickness that I needed so hopefully I shouldn't have to plane it to much although I am extremely worried on carving it and actually have no idea how I'm going to do this. If you have any guidance on craving a custom 24 type top I'd be glad to hear it! I was thinking of routing out the edge to the depth that I need and then chiseling everything else from the flat where the pickups are to my ledge that I routed out. Or should I go and buy carving tools? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I normally route a ledge along the edge and carve with hand gouges: That is not the the way the majority do it though. The routing an edge part is, but not so many hand carve i the tops. Some route out varying levels and sand to even them up, many use sanding disks or flap disks on right angle grinders---be careful if you go that route. It is easy to take too much too fast. Many use finger planes. I just like to carve. so I do it in the way that gives me the most pleasure and control.....one chip at a time. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 Wow, that turned out great! Thank you for that! I was thinking of making various scaled down jigs and routing levels, then using the chisel or rasp to tie them all in together, I really like what you do with gouges, I might have to go pick one up and try my hand at that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Quick question regarding poplar being used in a neck, I was wanting to try out the laminated scarf joint like I've seen a lot of people do on here. I was walking thru the lumber yard while I was picking up some things and saw this cool looking piece of poplar and figured it's cheap enough I'll buy it. Do y'all think poplar would be ok to use in a neck? It would be a mahogany/poplar/mahogany/poplar/mahogany laminate and there really wouldn't be that much used so I just figured I would ask y'all. Id like to have a light colored wood to contrast on the neck, if y'all think it's a bad idea to use this I will just go buy some maple but figured I would ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Hi @2.5itim. Another build....great! Lovely piece of flamed maple If you followed my thread on 'Tom's African Bass' you will know I'm not afraid of using unusual (and unsuitable!) woods . However, I'm a bit more cautious with neck woods. I'm no expert, but in terms of what I personally would do is this: if maple was available for the laminate, I would use this, with or without scarf joint. If I had no option but to go solid mahogany or a pretty laminated mahogany / poplar mix (with more mahogany than poplar) I would go for the laminated option but, as you say, have a scarf joint. Of course, if I had the time and cash, I'd make two necks, one with maple laminates and one with poplar - I would be curious whether the apparent extra flex of poplar makes any actual difference in a blind A/B test. But then, I'm a bit bonkers like that.... ....also bear in mind that there are more knowledgeable forumites than me who I am sure will chip in soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 I was going to suggest that poplar is probably too weak to be used in necks, but a quick scout aroud the interwebs suggests that poplar is a similar stiffness to mahogany, with mahogany winning out in hardness. There are probably better woods to laminate with. Making a laminated neck with poplar would only be done for visual aesthetics, as on first glance it would appear that a laminated poplar/mahogany neck would be no stronger than a plain mahogany neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 @Andyjr1515 I haven't had a chance to read thru that thread but I will take a look today! I fully expect this scarf to be mainly an asthetics thing, I have had many all mahogany necks and never had an issue so that's ok with me but I just don't want to make it any weaker. The amount of laminated woods in this is very minimal, I originally planned on going all out on laminating the neck (figure #1) but I just don't think I'm ready so I am only going to be laminating the scarf joint (figure #2). I may go pick up some maple or podauk today just to be on the safe side and stick with tried and true woods. I just really liked this piece of poplar because of the lines running down the grain, I was thinking if I could get the lines of the two pieces to line up it might be pretty cool to look at! In the drawing black is mahogany and the white is whatever laminate I decide to go with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 I'm no expert on scarfe joints but I would have thought this would be absolutely fine. I had assumed you were going for fig 1. Anyone else got a view? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 I really wanted to go with figure 1 but I just don't think I'm ready for something like that, I've thought so much about it that I think I ended up psyching myself out. Maybe for my next one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I could really use yall's help here on this scarf joint, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it. So I've been looking over the pics that original posted of his in his build thread and mine just doesn't look the same to me, I think that I used thicker laminate pieces as him which could be what's throwing me off here but I'm not sure. I cut my scarf and flipped the headstock board and left it on the front side of the neck board, then put my glued up laminate pieces in it as mockup, I'll show some pics of this, so now do I just glue it all together with the laminate protruding past the front and back of the neck and then route the laminated pieces to where they are level on the front and back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I also can't ever get my ends of the scarf joint perfectly straight, I don't know what to do anymore lol. Ive tried for about 2 hours tonight and it just hasn't worked for me, the end is curved, when I put my boards together like I would be gluing it the middle lines up just like it should but there's a gap on both sides... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 5 hours ago, 2.5itim said: so now do I just glue it all together with the laminate protruding past the front and back of the neck and then route the laminated pieces to where they are level on the front and back? Yes, although you may find it easier to glue it up in stages - glue the scarf laminations to the headstock extension first and let it set, and then glue the combined extension+lams to the neck for example. 4 hours ago, 2.5itim said: I also can't ever get my ends of the scarf joint perfectly straight, I don't know what to do anymore lol. Ive tried for about 2 hours tonight and it just hasn't worked for me, the end is curved, when I put my boards together like I would be gluing it the middle lines up just like it should but there's a gap on both sides... You must have a gentle bulge in one or more of your mating faces. Lay the edge of a steel ruler laterally across the gluing face of each piece to work out which ones are curved. After that it there's probably not much else other than careful use of a handplane or sandpaper on flat, solid surfaces to get it square. The hardest part will be ensuring you don't allow the workpiece or plane to wobble from side to side as you work the high spot down, as you'll only exacerbate the curve in the timber. Go slowly and check your progress frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Before heading to work I took a quick pic and put a square on the piece, it is very very slightly curved, I can see I tiny bit of light on the edges. Only reason I can see this happening is maybe my base for my router is slightly warped, it's just a 1/2" piece of plywood so it is possible and with setting it on a flat surface there is a tiny bit of wobble. I have a piece of 1/4" aluminum here that I'm gonna take to work and make a base plate out of and then try to route it again and see if that will fix the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 5 hours ago, curtisa said: After that it there's probably not much else other than careful use of a handplane or sandpaper on flat, solid surfaces to get it square. I like to glue sandpaper to the base of my handplane for work like this. 3M's 77 spray adhesive sprayed on the back of your sandpaper will hold it nicely and let you peel it off later. It is also great for holding sandpaper to your flat surface......what I call a sanding table. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Thanks Scott, that's a fantastic idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I cut my laminate pieces to short so they ended up not working out. I ended up just using one piece of maple instead of the maple/mahogany/maple piece, now I know next time to make them extra long. I got the maple piece glued to the headstock tonight and tomorrow I will get the neck blank glued to those! i really have no idea how I'm going to get the headstock piece perfectly level with the neck piece when I glue them up, do y'all usually glue the headstock up a little bit where it sits higher than the neck and then level it with a router? This is the main reason on all my other necks I put the scarf in the headstock instead of the neck because it's so much easier in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I got my scarf joint all glued up tonight, the headstock twisted on me a little bit but I ran it back thru my table saw and got it all square again. I know that laminating other types of wood into scarf joints is nothing new or hard for many of you but I am feeling quite accomplished in doing this, mainly because I was so worried of doing it. My top wood should come in the mail tomorrow He wants this guitar to be as close to a custom 24 as I can get so I'm waiting on a set of templates to get here and I think I've done just about all I can do for the moment without templates. Besides maybe getting the neck blank and headstock true to each other after gluing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 That looks like it will work fine. Quit doubting yourself! A couple of notes: The laminated neck of mine that you're looking at was my first attempt at one of these also. I used a thick piece of material in glue-up for the head stock, so that when cut to size, the scarf would be further down the neck. Poplar can be used for necks, but it's not very attractive under a natural finish. Any neck with multiple lamination will be stiffer than a solid piece of wood. I think that it's wise to use woods with similar densities for laminate necks for a couple of reasons. The consistency makes a lot of difference when sanding, or scraping. Strength of the glue joints can also be an issue. Don't worry about the set neck. We'll all gladly coach you through it, and you'll likely forget about bolt-on's for a while. Your work looks good so far! Buying material for tops can be pretty pricey. I usually look for "off the rack" material at my local supplier, and do my own book matching. The material cost works out to about $5 a top. Here's some that I have in queue for future work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 @Original thank you very much for that, I appreciate it! I was actually wondering how y'all got them farther down the neck, that makes a lot of sense now! glad to know about poplar being an ok choice, I will save this piece for a later build, I see how it could not be very pleasing natural but I really liked this piece due to the lines in it and not having much green tint to it. Side note, I saw on the Facebook group that you finished the 7 and it looks fantastic! I also creeped only slightly lol, I like the xr!! It looks like you do some adventure riding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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