ScottR Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 20 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: I'll be watching this with huge interest @Prostheta Likewise. And fittingly enough, ZZTop was playing in the background as I read that post, Carl. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Well, why would it not be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 I did a couple of tests with dye & grain filler for my ash back. In this case it's dark blue spirit-based dye and black thixotropic grain filler. It didn't look much different whether I dyed or grain-filled first in the end, so I've decided to grain fill first as that will require the most sanding back of the two processes. I'm looking forward to seeing this guitar too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Having researched how Gibson did it, or at least how people say that they did the original finish, I have to question just how necessary the order is. I mean, I'm not manufacturing instruments and surely a company of that scale chooses finish scheduling around how to maximise throughput with the least hands-on work. Making a one-off, I think there is chance to mix it up as long as one understands the reasoning for any sort of ordering and applies that to any changes knowledgeably. I will of course manage to fuck it up according to personal whimsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 Bit of progress, and I'll add photos when there is something more interesting. Firstly, I've planned out the inlays with Nina and she likes the Martin split diamonds laid out at an angle similar to my white Explorer: However, Nina prefers them offset. That is, on the bass side of the fingerboard up until twelfth and then swapping over on the double inlay to the treble side above that point. I've provisionally marked out the locations as being parallel to the taper, 10mm out. I'll physically place them and see how that looks tomorrow. The majority of the inlay locations can be drilled out using a 6mm or 1/4" bit and then chiselled to shape. Easy but fiddly and time consuming. The fingerboard has been tapered anyway. That was done by marking out how the fingerboard measured at the ends and sanding with a large oscillating belt sander. Not the way most people are able to do it, however this is just one of several options I can think of. Just the one that was most appropriate at the time. The taper includes a 1.5mm border at the end and sides for binding. The end has already had binding added; I'm going to inlay and radius the board before adding binding to the sides so I can get blind slots. Fretwire will be basic medium Hosco fretwire. No need for big ol' jumbos. I might even consider small frets. Either way, the zero fret will be made with wire a hair larger. The mortise for the neck has been hogged out with a 35mm Forstner bit (Fisch rule) but will be routed eventually. Firstly, the tenon will need the underside cutting and tapering to match the neck angle so the mortise can be parallel to the body face. I find this an easier option than a tenon parallel to the fingerboard plane and an angled mortise. The heel might be a little further out than modern SGs, but hell, this is a body and neck meant for different purposes before this project was conceived.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 On 4/1/2017 at 1:52 PM, Prostheta said: Bit of progress Excellent. I'm glad to here Nina is involved. I'm inclined to believe that woman is formidable... in a kind and loving way. She obviously is an old hand at keeping you on track. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan_kara Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 binding after radiusing .. hmm I should consider it next time. I put binding on before just trying to cut the slots extra deep to factor in the future radius .. well in the current two and a half bound fingerboards that I'm doing all needed some deepening... Good that I got the little saw that does that a few months ago, but still annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariahrob Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Great thread and love your attention to detail. I'm interested to see your results on finishing order. I'm planning on grain filling before staining my current build and always good to hear ither's experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 16 hours ago, ScottR said: Excellent. I'm glad to here Nina is involved. I'm inclined to believe that woman is formidable... in a kind and loving way. She obviously is an old hand at keeping you on track. SR She is all that and more. We're cohorts, drinking buddies and best friends in addition to life partners. Whilst I'm the more inconsistent and crazy-idea'd of us both, Nina is the balance. We know the way forward and how to win. 3 hours ago, pan_kara said: binding after radiusing .. hmm I should consider it next time. I put binding on before just trying to cut the slots extra deep to factor in the future radius .. well in the current two and a half bound fingerboards that I'm doing all needed some deepening... Good that I got the little saw that does that a few months ago, but still annoying. It was more a decision based on the order of work and not taking shortcuts I guess. Having slots too deep "just in case" is no huge problem, however there's always a better way when small compromises for convenience are chosen. I'd rather check myself and do it as well as I am able rather than doing just enough. 3 hours ago, Pariahrob said: Great thread and love your attention to detail. I'm interested to see your results on finishing order. I'm planning on grain filling before staining my current build and always good to hear ither's experiences. Thanks, I'm glad that it's useful and well-received. Grain filling before stain is not the usual order of things, so I still need to confirm suitability on scrap before committing. It seems most logical at this stage, however we'll certainly see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Okay, so a bit of this is putting my money where my mouth is, or some other similar pithy aphorism. My adjustable humbucker template was stuck down with 3M double-sided tape. I know that the centreline will be on the mark later, so no worries about doing this before the neck is in place. http://www.projectguitar.com/product_reviews/tools_and_consumables/3m-9740-double-coated-tape-where-to-stick-it-r27/ http://www.projectguitar.com/tutorials/instrument-building/router-basics-humbucker-pickup-routing-with-pickup-ring-r73/ First, a starter hole was drilled to the final depth required using a Forstner bit. A really good Forstner bit. I'm using the fixed base on my laminate trimmer router because of the lower centre of gravity, better control in small spaces and fantastic extraction. For enclosed routs, this sucks the base down onto the workpiece! Token photo showing me pretending to rout single-handed. The router is set for 4mm per pass, with the cutter placed into the starter hole prior to making it so. After engagerating the routerating mechanism, the cutter is moved in a clockwise direction around the perimeter of the starter hole and brought outwards gradually until the template is contacted. I then trace the perimeter of that and clean up any stray nibs I missed. No need to cut heavily. No rush. Three passes took this down to 12mm. The base of the starter hole was set for 12mm so that for the final pass I could loosen the height adjuster, drop the cutter and "read" the depth from that hole. Note the important tone hole from the Forstner bit's spur. Convincing the auxiliary template into place, I made a start on the leg bits. Holes? Cut a bit at a time, flip the template, rinse and repeat. I should have swapped over the cutter to a longer one (which I do not have right now....the only reasonably-priced source for my preferred router bit stuff is in Poland of all places; @pan_kara?) so the bearing dipped under the template and the shank rode on the template. Bummer. Time to note that in the tutorial, methinks. Nonetheless, it has zero impact on the fuctionality of the rout. You can see here, the Death Star, orbiting the forest moon of Endor. Although the weapon systems on this Death Star are not yet operational, the Death Star the bridge placement markings. The main line (it was adjusted about a mm last week) shows the minimum intonation point. The Gotoh Nashville style TOM I'm using has post centres about 5mm back from the most-forward intonation adjustment point. That means the post locations need to be 5mm back from the minimum adjustment point. Make sense? To squeeze the most out of the range, the bass side is dropped back by another 4mm, hence the 9mm marking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan_kara Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Prostheta said: Cut a bit at a time, flip the template, rinse and repeat. I should have swapped over the cutter to a longer one (which I do not have right now....the only reasonably-priced source for my preferred router bit stuff is in Poland of all places; @pan_kara?) really? where/which bits are you using? I recently got a pair of CMT spiral cutters as part of trying to transition to mostly guide-bushing-based approach, but one never knows when one a new router bit will need.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 I've been using cheap(ish) Luna Tools bits for years now, however my usual source at neteberg.eu shut down recently. I could really do with a new roundover set and new template bits. These are getting a bit burny. http://www.megamaszyny.com.pl/zestaw-frezow-promieniowych-cat-1589-id-58416.aspx Do you know of this company? They wanted direct payment, as they don't seem to be able to carry out online transactions for non-Polish countries. At least, for calculating shipping. Carriage to Finland turned out to be 120zl, or about €28. A lot for a small box. They don't seem to carry that many router bits anyway, so perhaps they're just not the best source. CMT would be a good choice, however price is usually the clincher. I might just go Imperial size and buy Infinity Tools bits. I know that @KnightroExpress has a high opinion of them. I've also been meaning to have a chat with them about putting together a "luthier's basics" cutter set.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan_kara Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 I go a JET arbor press from them once, I use if for fretting. That's the only business I've done with them .. I bought the router bits from punta.com.pl, but I see they also have prohibitive shipping costs to Finland. Weird. I used to buy from France or UK but since I moved from France to Switzerland (so outside EU) sending stuff is associated with some extra nonsensical fees so I moved to buying stuff in Poland and bringing it over myself (I'm there once a month). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 I'm about used to having to pay top dollar by now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Quick update before I go to sleep. I put together that simple radiusing beam jig mentioned elsewhere in a thread I can't remember.... Even without buffers to stop sanding at depth, it works marvellously. Just a little more to go at the very end of the board. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 Minor update which I think is overdue. The fingerboard has been inlaid (manually using my pantograph manually) and cleaned up. The neck mortise has been routed to depth and the tenon shaved and re-angled to fit. I'm currently not 100% happy with the angle I had originally selected (which was was a Les Paul....) so I need to quickly run that over the Martin to make it shallower. Not a big deal, but an annoyance. I should clarify a little about the truss rod; originally the intention was to use a single-acting compression rod, however time is not being too kind with me in relation to this build. There are upcoming builds which have far higher priority for video work, so this one simply just need to be done. Cutting a curved channel requires a bit of setting up of things which I still need to build (jigs, templates), so a simpler two-way rod is perhaps the solution to this pressure. Not sure whether I feel that this is a compromise or diminishes the project in some way, especially since I am of the opinion that compression rods improve the "sound" of the neck. The headstock is still overly thick, and I need to acquire a proper veneer for the top. Fibreboard was on the table, however I've decided against that. Until that stock is in, that creates another hold-up. The back of the headstock still needs re-thicknessing, which I'll be doing on the spindle sander. I just need to make up a nice square fence for it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Mara Posted April 16, 2017 Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 I really like your engineered approach to almost everything here... That ruler/square you made for the bevel was ingenious! I'm sure this will be incredible when it's done! Mike. (And damn... That table saw... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 Thanks, I appreciate that. Having reviewed the thread, I changed tack many times with a few things. It was always going to be a balance of compromises, but its turned out nicely. The Martin T60 saw is completely excessive for work like this, however being able to dial in angles to 1/100th of a degree and having a digitally-controlled angle and fence is useful when you figure out ways to use it. If a far more compact cabinet saw had that level of accuracy, it would be a luthier's dream definitely. As it stands, that thing needs an aircraft hangar amount of room..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Mara Posted April 16, 2017 Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 Tools with DRO are never excessive , Even if they do need their own hangar! ... If you had the patience you could easily add that kind of DRO to a more modest saw... As long as the end result is something you're happy with, compromises are fine. I had to compromise on the fretboard and hardware on my build... But hey, sometimes you think you're having to compromise but the end result is better than planned because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 DRO sure, however fully motorised? Hmmm. Can't beat that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Mara Posted April 16, 2017 Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 I suppose you could if you added stepper motors... But that's a whole other story and work lol. It wouldn't be too difficult but the sheer effort and external components needed would make it maybe not worth it lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 Token artsy shot. Test fitting the pickup and bridge hardware. I mentioned right at the head of this thread that I'd be considering fitting an ABM wraparound, however that would have ended up being the single most expensive piece of anything on this instrument. Not even an option at this stage! The scribbling in the neck pocket is from me checking the neck tenon for quality of mating surface on the lower side. This is something that is massively important since the tenon itself is angled, and needs to be perfectly perpendicular to the shoulders. As mentioned, this is needing to be re-cut anyway and brought down to about 1,5-2,0°. Reducing the angle at the shoulders removes material from the fingerboard side, and correspondingly will need the lower face of the tenon to be altered, mostly at the far end. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 This has reminded me just how spectacularly clean and crisp your woodwork is, Carl. It's a delight to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 Thanks Andy - I've developed a load of habits (paranoias?) which are probably the basis for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 Very clean lines indeed! SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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