steve1556 Posted August 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 9 hours ago, curtisa said: If you have any offcuts from the original neck blank it would be better. Pine will still probably work fine though. I'll pop round to my friends house this afternoon on my way home and pick some up. I'll try and get it cut and glued in today. 7 hours ago, SIMpleONe89 said: I think you need to take off more wood from the sides when you rough cut the neck. May be a bit dangerous to you and the work piece if you try to route too much material off. Thankfully it turned out well. The last neck I cut was too close to the line, and I attached the template slightly off the centre line, meaning the router bit wouldn't cut the wood. I deliberately left loads of wood this time as it's the 2nd neck for this guitar now, however, next time I'll attached the template before running it through the bandsaw so I can get close the the line. To reduce the chance of any issues, I only took around 1mm of wood off at a time until the router bearing touched the template. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 It's worth spending a few minutes more on the bandsaw nibbling and paring away than it is risking the router blowing it apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted August 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 5 hours ago, Prostheta said: It's worth spending a few minutes more on the bandsaw nibbling and paring away than it is risking the router blowing it apart. Agreed. I just didn't want to ruin another neck blank. Next time I'll mount the template then take it to the band saw and cut much closervices to the line. I finally got the new body blank today! The guy has jointed, glued and planned it for me which I wasn't expecting, so that's one less job to do. I want to get the cavities routed out tomorrow, but the plans I have don't say how deep any of the cavities should be, and I can find next to no information about it online. Can anyone point me in the right direction on it? Also, should I cut the cavities out then then the body, or the body then the cavities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 5 hours ago, steve1556 said: the plans I have don't say how deep any of the cavities should be, and I can find next to no information about it online As deep as they need to be. Electronic cavities are easy - deep enough to enclose the parts without them bottoming out on anything. If the part needs to penetrate through the front (pots and switches) make the cavity deep enough so that the part has enough thread exposed so it can be secured to the surface properly. Pickups need enough depth to allow for the lowest height adjustment you're likely to set them at. Raising the height of a pickup in a slightly too-deep cavity is easy. Lowering it in a too-shallow cavity is much harder. In both of the above cases I'd want to have the parts handy so I could measure them beforehand (or at least have some known-good measurements of them) and trial-fit them after making the cut Neck pocket is more critical, and something I wouldn't attempt to do without the neck being built to a point where it is near its final thickness, or without knowing some information about the bridge dimensions. Most decent manufacturers of tremolos should include routing and drilling details for their products which will assist in installing them. If not, then I'd recommend trialling any self-made templates out on scrap timber before committing it to the final cut. 6 hours ago, steve1556 said: Also, should I cut the cavities out then then the body, or the body then the cavities? I've always gone body then cavities, but I have seen some people do neck pocket and bridge on the blank and then cut the body shape to align with the cuts made for the neck and bridge. For all other cavities it makes sense to do them last. The neck pocket determines the minimum position of the neck pickup. The bridge location determines the minimum position of the bridge pickup. The body shape determines the location of the control cavities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted August 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Good news today! I emailed G&W about the miter box, received an email from them this morning explaining how to do it. I got so transfixed on the mounts that move up and down (they also move sideways a very small amount), that I completely missed the bolts that hold the sides on, and it turns out you move the sides closer or further away from each other. I've got at least 1 job to do tomorrow, may have a second or third, I'm not sure yet, but I would love to be able to have the fret board slotted tomorrow and to finish routing the body, so I'm going to get up early to do it. Curtisa - thanks for the information on that. I've seen videos and forum posts of it, but I never knew if there was a standard depth to route to, or if it was to your own standard, but I want to do the guitar as properly as possible. I've got all the pickup parts which I'll measure tomorrow and go from there. The neck is more or less at the right thickness, it just needs the fretboard attached to it. I've got several Strat trems already so I'm planning on using one of them for this build. I bought some MDF templates that have the neck and trem pockets already on them, so surely they would be ideally placed already? So today I made some good progress. My wood guy and I had a slight miscommunication and the body blank ended up being far too big. I'm still undecided on if I'm going to stain or paint the body, so at least I now have scrap pieces to try the different finishes on. During the body routing, something went wrong with the router bit, in that the screw that holds the bit that holds the bearing in place has gone missing. I've got a spare router bit so I'll either use that or use the bearing holding piece from it. I'm routing the body in small bits at a time (5-10cm) and it seems to be going really well. The blade on the bandsaw is now knackered so I need to get a now one ordered, which is the reason why all the material in the top horn cutaway isn't removed. The material in the lover horn cutaway can't be removed using the bandsaw as the top horn hits to post so the blade doesn't reach. I plan on drilling them out tomorrow (as my jigsaw is a cheap one and won't cut into the wood). Getting ready to stick the template down! I've decided to have a off center glue line because if I do stain the guitar, the top part will have some nice figuring. Masking tape down. Using the trick from Crimson Guitars or 2 lots of masking tape, super glue on one, super glue accelerator on the other. At this point the delivery driver arrived with my latest order, which is bits for my bike. Can't wait to get my bike back on the road as it's really nice to cycle on the canal tow paths at this time of year. If anyone uses a CX bike, I can't recommend Sammy Slick tyres enough! No pics from when I was using the bandsaw as I was trying to get back quickly, but here is the body after it's been done. I left the template attached and got as close to the template as possible. The quality of this pics aren't great, after the router bit issue I had to goto work for a few hours, so rushed this pictures in the garage when I got home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) Managed to get some more work done on it before I went to work earlier. I got the miter box fully set up, realigned the fretboard on the template, and cut the fret slots. I didn't set the miter box for the saw to go deep enough, so I ran the saw over them again after I removed it from the template to make the slots sligholy deeper. They still aren't deep enough for the frets, but I'll get them to three right depth after I've used the radius block. Work on the fretboard is now on hold until I get the inlays come through, hopefully by Friday so I can work on it over the weekend. Not sure if the 12th fret will be dots or a custom inlay, but I've ordered some celluloid sheets as well as dots just in case. I also ordered some black side dots, but my error was they are going into Bubinga wood, so I've had to order some white ones instead. I've got to go back out shortly, so I'm hoping to drill out the lower horn section that the router couldn't reach now, then finish up the routing of the outside of the body tomorrow. My Internet at home is really slow, so rather then transfer them to the laptop then upload them to Photobucket, I'm uploading them from my phone to Dropbox, and trying to link to them using the tablet. Hopefully the pictures show up OK. Setting up complete with morning coffee (strong, loads of milk and some sugar in case anyone wants to make me one!). https://www.dropbox.com/s/vkjb8fwuxdasrfp/20160817_091528.jpg Using the masking tape and super glue trick again. https://www.dropbox.com/s/00s6rnqhrwqrux7/20160817_092344.jpg All set up and ready to saw! https://www.dropbox.com/s/wdnhmzrapakxuwv/20160817_092542.jpg Pretty near perfect I think. https://www.dropbox.com/s/a7uywohqqzmbm6t/20160817_093630.jpg Since the first slot went well, onto the next one! https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tf8f3tcgp2c0s3/20160817_093809.jpg Decided sitting down would be easier to do it, especially as it was early morning and my legs were still asleep. https://www.dropbox.com/s/fu47tg2hsnmmhcw/20160817_094302.jpg I'm extremely happy with how this has turned out. Just waiting on the inlay material to arrive now. https://www.dropbox.com/s/2nll5f2p15fvfza/20160817_094920.jpg?raw=1 Edited August 17, 2016 by steve1556 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 OK, pictures don't show up, only the links. The links work though, ideally I wanted the pictures embedded into the thead, going to have a play around with it and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 You should just embed in the post rather that linking to external hosts. I'll go in and try to edit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 Meh, no. It looks like it won't embed by that URL. Dropbox automatically parses the links and returns HTML rather than an image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 You need a bench or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted August 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 23 hours ago, Prostheta said: You should just embed in the post rather that linking to external hosts. I'll go in and try to edit it. Yeah, that's what I was trying to do. I've looked online and it seems that it's near impossible to do with Dropbox. I've just downloaded the Photobucket app to my phone so I can now upload files quicker (my 4G is much quicker then my home internet, and I like to use as much of my 50GB data limit as possible!). Thanks for trying to edit the links though. 23 hours ago, psikoT said: You need a bench or something... I normally use the work bench, but it's a bit low for me and it hurts my back bending over for too long so that's the reason why I chose to do it on my lap. I'm looking at rearranging the garage to use the laser cutter bench as my work area, or moving it all to my dads and setting up in his barn. Still undecided on what to do at the moment. Got some good progress done today, finished routing the body, but there are a few small errors. mostly where I went slightly too deep with the bandsaw, most of it should be hidden after I've done the sanding, The blade was near knackered and twisted on 1 bit of the body so it's slightly flat, but after sanding it should be near hidden. I started drilling the cavities out with a forstner bit, but I've found my drill doesn't have enough torque, and then the battery was going flat so I decided to call it a day. For the excess material in the lower horn, I attached the forstner bit in the drill press, then a series of smaller 9mm holes, followed by a chisel. Not the most elegant way of doing it, but it worked. Making a start on the lower horn. Halfway through the routing of it. Getting there slowly with the body. More or less done. Some of the small errors (the flattened bit and a bit where the bandsaw went slightly too deep. When doing the lower hurn cutout (I did that bit last), I messed up and had the guide bearing just about the template so had to use another template for this bit. The router cut slightly too deep into the body, but it will be on the neck cutout anyway so it doesn't matter too much. Damaged template (it was a stupid mistake where I wasn't thinking). I know I shouldn't have, but I used the original template for this small part. Little bit more damage, it should mostly sand out and it's also in the roundoff area. Using the masking tape/super glue trick again! Started the drilling with the forstner bits. I can't use my drill press for this bit as it's only a small hobby bench one and the body hits the support pole so the bit won't reach the cavities. That's all for today, feel like I'm making some good progress on this now. I've never expected the build to turn out perfect as it's my first one and first time using a router, but I'm very pleased with how it's turned out so far. I was hoping I would be able to finish it before the end of the month, and with my work schedule it's looking likely that I maybe able to, but I'm trying very hard to take my time and not rush it. I'm actually finding the wood working quite calming! I've got some bits I need to get done tomorrow so it maybe a few days before another update. Hoping my G&W order arrives tomorrow so I can work on the inlays over the weekend, if not they should be here on Monday, I've already got my jewelers saw ready! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMpleONe89 Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I suggest taking the extra time and effort to create working templates. I'm sure that template is fixable with bondo or something similar, but create working ones and leave this as the master. And it may be wise to remove as much material with drill bits. It's more tedious but it really helps prolong the life of your router bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Yes. Routers are for shaping, not large stock removal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 4 hours ago, SIMpleONe89 said: I suggest taking the extra time and effort to create working templates. I'm sure that template is fixable with bondo or something similar, but create working ones and leave this as the master. And it may be wise to remove as much material with drill bits. It's more tedious but it really helps prolong the life of your router bits. Yeah ivery got templates that are thicker thathe I'm using for the routing, but I damaged it. As it was only 1 side of the neck pocket that needed doing I decidedto use the original template for it. I'll either repair the damaged one for next time or make a new one. I've never been massively keen on scratch plates on guitars so I would like to make a strat without one someday soon. 3 hours ago, Prostheta said: Yes. Routers are for shaping, not large stock removal. I couldn't agree more, but I I took as much wood off as I could, and then with the touted I was maybe moving 1mm of thickness on each pass. I used one of my new router bits (the cheap one) to minimise the cost of blunt blades. I have bought a sharpening plateam and lapping fluid a while ago for when the blades do become flat. The rest of the body (apart from inside the top horn) was cut extremely close to the line though. I kept the template attached while using the bandsaw and it worked well, and I'll do the same for when I cut the fretboard down. It's absolutely chucking it down today so I doubt anything will get done. However, I've just had an email from the courier company to say that my inlay stUffington shall be arriving today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I actually take a little bit of that back. Routers can be for stock removal also, however they simply can't handle doing lots of it at once. Neither the motors nor the cutters, not to mention the wood. The problems start with any sort of instability in the system; hand routers are the worst, because you've having to both restrain AND move the motor at the same time. You learn a style of muscle memory for doing that kind of work, but once it starts to get away from you it is virtually impossible to regain control. Therein the problem lies....maintaining that stability. Hand routers should be relegated to cleanup and finish work rather than bulk removal. I mean, you can do a neck pocket or pickup rout exclusively with a router but it's not the best approach as @psikoT states. Router bits should be cared for after each use; I clean mine with alcohol and a wipe of WD40 off a rag if they're going to sit for any length of time. If they're not boxed or racked for protection, a wrap of masking tape helps stop the carbides from clinking each other to chippy death. I think that cut depth is far more of a problem than how much stock is being removed, which is why cutter length is so crucial. The cutters hit the wood twice every revolution, so a deeper cut is a lot of tool pressure and whanging against the cutters every time. The time they spend pushing through the cut is less problematic than the change in resistance into and out of cuts. I think so anyway. I'm sure that this can be looked at as a physics problem but I really don't think we want to be going there right now.....! Yeah, you can repair that template with two-part polyester car body filler. That's all that product is good for around guitars. Useful for repairing templates, but never filling dings in instruments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted August 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 On 8/19/2016 at 9:48 AM, Prostheta said: I actually take a little bit of that back. Routers can be for stock removal also, however they simply can't handle doing lots of it at once. Neither the motors nor the cutters, not to mention the wood. The problems start with any sort of instability in the system; hand routers are the worst, because you've having to both restrain AND move the motor at the same time. You learn a style of muscle memory for doing that kind of work, but once it starts to get away from you it is virtually impossible to regain control. Therein the problem lies....maintaining that stability. Hand routers should be relegated to cleanup and finish work rather than bulk removal. I mean, you can do a neck pocket or pickup rout exclusively with a router but it's not the best approach as @psikoT states. Router bits should be cared for after each use; I clean mine with alcohol and a wipe of WD40 off a rag if they're going to sit for any length of time. If they're not boxed or racked for protection, a wrap of masking tape helps stop the carbides from clinking each other to chippy death. I think that cut depth is far more of a problem than how much stock is being removed, which is why cutter length is so crucial. The cutters hit the wood twice every revolution, so a deeper cut is a lot of tool pressure and whanging against the cutters every time. The time they spend pushing through the cut is less problematic than the change in resistance into and out of cuts. I think so anyway. I'm sure that this can be looked at as a physics problem but I really don't think we want to be going there right now.....! Yeah, you can repair that template with two-part polyester car body filler. That's all that product is good for around guitars. Useful for repairing templates, but never filling dings in instruments! Thanks for the information, really helps to explain what the router/bits go through. When I was using the router in the lower horn section, I was only taking very small amounts off to avoid any issues that may or may not have happened, and I also ran the router at the slowest speed setting. I'm still looking at investing in a router table though. I've also decided not to repair the template for two reasons, the first one being that the car filler will cost more then what creating a new template will cost, and the second is that I probably won't use it again. I'm not a big fan of scratch plates on guitars and if I choose to build another Strat, it won't have a scratch plate on it. Not much of an update I'm afraid, my job gets quite busy in summer and school holidays (which means an increase in hours) and my free time has been spent at my nans as she has started going downhill quite quickly with this cancer, so I'm trying to spend as much time as I can with her. A result of this is that the guitar build has had to take a back seat for a while. On the plus side and without trying to sound like I'm getting ahead of myself, I've decided my next build will be a headless guitar, mainly because I've got everything I need for it bar the hardware and pickups. I'm planning to get the hardware from one of the Chinese eBay sellers, as I'll only be needing the guitar for when I'm occasionally waiting around in my second job (I've taken one of my Ibanez guitars and it's just too big). I've had to order some new inlays as the ones I originally ordered were too small. I also didn't notice the strip for teh side dots fell on the floor so I ordered some more, both of which have arrived now. Not sure when I'll next get time to work on the build, but when I do, I'll get the inlay dots done and the cavities drilled out (if I get time I'll use the router to finish them off as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Take all the time you need for everything. There's only 24hrs in a day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted August 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 5 hours ago, Prostheta said: Take all the time you need for everything. There's only 24hrs in a day. There just isn't enough hours in a day to cram everything in! Found out the other day that my favourite auntie is terminally ill as well which doesn't help matters, but I've always found that running and cycling helps clear the mind and stress, but I'm currently injured so my physio has put me on very limited milage for both. The saying it never rains only pours comes to mind. On the plus side, I've ordered the bridge and head parts for the next build. Haven't found any plans for it, but seen pictures from kits so should be able to work something out from that. The parts are coming from China so will arrive anywhere between mid September to early October, and is the one branded Overlord that's found on eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhorst Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Sorry to hear about all the personal set backs Steve! Good to see you're still progressing with the build though. Seems to be going rather well. Nothing wrong with taking it slow. I had put my project aside for almost two months, but I can see the puzzle pieces come together right now. Any plans on starting the neck yet? Are you going full baseball bat, or something slimmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted September 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2016 On 9/10/2016 at 11:21 PM, Rockhorst said: Sorry to hear about all the personal set backs Steve! Good to see you're still progressing with the build though. Seems to be going rather well. Nothing wrong with taking it slow. I had put my project aside for almost two months, but I can see the puzzle pieces come together right now. Any plans on starting the neck yet? Are you going full baseball bat, or something slimmer? Cheers buddy, it's just been a bit of a roller coaster lately. She is back in hospital now, and should hopefully be in a nursing home before the end of the week so she will be happier and it will be easier to see her. Did you stop yours for 2 months? I knew you stopped for a while but didn't realise that it was that long! I've been following your build report, looks like your making good progress with it now, and the scarf joint looks like it's coming along nicely. For the neck, I really like the Ibanez skinny necks, but being a first build, I'm going to be concentrating on trying to make the neck as best as I can and if it turns into a chunky neck it's fine as look as it's a good chunky neck. The plan is to practice carving the neck on the neck black that I ruined before trying to carve the actual neck. I think I've made an error as the fretboard is 6mm thich, I'm thinking it should only be 3-4mm thick. Going to do some research on it. Little update, today is my 15th day in a row working and with other things just haven't had time to do anything, and I've got 6 more to go before I get any days off. But I have ordered and received some new toys! I've just got 125mm wide, 25mm thick and 3 meter long boards of maple, sapele and black walnut, with the plan being to build 5 piece necks for my next guitar builds. While sitting at my nans I've had a lot of thinking/planning time and thought multi piece necks would look great. the plan is maple, sapele, black walnut, sapele, maple. The bits for the headless guitar (next build) have turned up, it's the Overload Of Music kit from eBay. Going to have the trem locked, and the 5th build will be another headless guitar with much better hardware. There is a DIY shop that is having a sale on their Guild power tools, budget tools but the router is excellent, so I got their 1700W miter saw, which will help to cut the neck and body woods as my jigsaw struggles with them. Depending how much I'm working tomorrow in my 2nd job, I'm hoping to start working on the body again, and finish drilling out the cavities ready for routing. If the weather is good and I've got time, I'm hoping to be able to route them out as well. Slightly off topic, but I've just seen this months thread for the BOTM competition, and I must say that you guys are knocking the ball out of the park with the builds! Absolutely stunning guitars yet again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted September 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 Finally managed to find some time to work on the guitar build! I used the forstner bits to clear out the bulk of the cavities and just started routing the control cavity, although I'm pretty sure it may need to be slightly deeper. I'm going to order the pickup selector switch today to see if it's deep enough or not. It took a bit longer then planned, as my new drill (a cheap £30 18V cordless one) isn't powerful enough to dig the forstner bit into the wood (surprise surprise), and the last time I used my stepdads new drill it decided to chuck loads of smoke out of the motor. I've only got a small drill press so the bit wouldn't reach deep enough into the body for the majority of the cavities, although for the ones it could reach it made very easy work of it (may look at getting a bigger drill press now sometime in the future). Actually, looking at the picture of the depth of the control cavity, I'm convinced it needs to be deeper. I'm about to head into the garage to do some more work on it. I've also ordered 2 new guitar tops for future builds, absolutely no idea what I'm going to use them for, but both came up on eBay really cheap so I thought that I would grab them. The walnut is 10mm thick so will make a lovely top, and the spalted ambrosia maple should look stunning when it's stained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted September 29, 2016 Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 Deepen it with the router instead. Once you've established the outline and done some hogging, the router can take out the holes caused by the central spur of your Forstner. You'll also be able to fine-tune the depth to exactly what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1556 Posted September 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 7 minutes ago, Prostheta said: Deepen it with the router instead. Once you've established the outline and done some hogging, the router can take out the holes caused by the central spur of your Forstner. You'll also be able to fine-tune the depth to exactly what you need. Cheers for the advice! I was worried about using the router to do too much stock removal (over an inch was needed to be removed in the control cavity) so I took the drill press and forstner bits to it again. I also removed more from the Pickup cavities just to make sure they would be OK. I tried my hand drill but it was useless so I treated myself to a new one! Found out my old one has 12.1nm of torque, this one has 47.9nm of torque. It just went through the wood like it was warm butter. New drill, Stanley Fatmax. After routing the cavities (gone as deep as I can in the control cavity now and mostly done the pickup cavities. I either need to remove the template or get a longer router bit for the required depth, and just got to start routing the bridge cavity now. Feels great to be able to get working on this again, especially as I find it really relaxing for some reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted September 29, 2016 Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 Building guitars is totally relaxing, despite the tendency to have machines blasting all sorts of noise about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhorst Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 I've that the use of hand tools increases the relaxing factor about tenfold 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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