Jump to content

Recommended Posts

djobson101    31

In having downtime waiting to order some more tools, I'm starting this project as something of a test. It will be a hodgepodge, but the reason is that I don't want to ruin any expensive pieces of wood yet :D The idea started from a fondness for the Ibanez PGM, and wanting to have a guitar that was as playable as an RG, but with real semi hollow construction. I had some motivation too being a big fan of Languedoc guitars. I am in no way ready to even think about foraying into that realm of building though, so this will have to do.

I started off by tracing my Ibanez RG170 for the shape, and getting it onto the computer. I played around with some of the lines to give it a twist and some ideas for contours. Mostly though, it's still like an RG.

Here are some basic specs for the idea:

- It will be neck through, semi hollow construction with a top and bottom.

- Two humbuckers with coil splitting for each

- 24 fret 27" scale

Satchguedoc.jpg

I am guilty of having started some of the work, so I will be updating to where I'm currently at.

I'm pretty green to building, so I will heed any pointers to the best of my ability! Thanks for looking.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31

Thanks guys! I hope it turns out nicely.

Here are the templates stuck onto 1/2" MDF, cut out and cleaned up via spindle sander.

The dimensions on the headstock template were just a reminder so I know how wide the piece has to be:

Photo Jan 22, 1 45 19 PM.jpg

Photo Jan 22, 2 25 45 PM.jpg

Had to employ the router and a straightedge to get the neck tapers straight (forgot to get a during pic):Photo Jan 22, 5 51 11 PM.jpgPhoto Jan 22, 6 00 45 PM.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31

For the neck I wanted to try laminating. I am using any and everything that I have laying around. I don't know what the middle piece is but my guess is redwood. It came from a bunch of upcycled 2 x 4's I got from a guy who said they were part of a swing set that he built in the 80's. I was surprised to see out here (in contrast to the Northeast) that some stores stock redwood as dimensional lumber, so I'm guessing that's it. The next layer out is cedar. Not pictured was my decision that these woods might not be rigid enough, so I glued on a piece of white oak on either side in hopes that it will help that cause.

IMG_1850.JPGIMG_1852.JPG

Threw it in the sled for "planing". There are some knots that will be concealed:IMG_1861.JPG

You can file this under "Jigs that seemed like a good idea at the time":

Photo Jan 22, 6 14 01 PM.jpg

Tsk tsk tsk <_<Photo Jan 22, 6 11 10 PM.jpg

Luckily I made this cut with plenty of extra length on the blank. I will be building a scarf jig for the router.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31

The wings are just a couple of fir 2 x 6 pieces. I am really wondering both if this is a bad idea and what it will sound like.

Photo Jan 22, 6 23 56 PM.jpg

Ready to trim the neck piece to the template, and in my hastiness...Photo Jan 22, 6 34 32 PM.jpg...forgot to set the depth stop on the ol' plunge mechanism:Photo Jan 22, 7 07 34 PM.jpg

I ended up band-aiding it by trimming 1/16" from each side of the neck template where it joins the wings, and re-trimming. I left the space at the top of the neck to maybe try and get the fretboard straight with a locating technique that I've seen some of you guys demonstrate. I need to do a bit of reading on that part!

Photo Jan 22, 7 34 15 PM.jpg

Cleaned out the horns and went for the glue up. It looks like a close call but I'm pretty sure I have at least an inch left at the fouled up scarf attempt to redo with the soon to be made router jig:glue up.jpg

Planed the whole thing for now and smoothed the edges, so I am inspired while I look at it for what will probably be the next couple weeks.

That fir takes up a whole lot of space as shavings!

Photo Jan 23, 6 29 10 PM.jpgPhoto Jan 23, 6 39 16 PM.jpgPhoto Jan 23, 7 45 17 PM.jpg

 

Edited by djobson101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jdogg    33

Love the shape.  I think the pointy bits on the pickup cavities will have you pulling your hair out....  best to put a radius there so its easy to rout... but otherwise I REALLY like the design...  don't worry too much about "tonewood" and how it'll sound...  it'll sound great...  perhaps not EXACTLY how you imagined it would... but great in its own way... and that's the important part....

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ScottR    1,366

Yeah, in the words of Orgmorg, it will sound like a guitar. Actually, every account I've heard says pine bodied guitars sound great.

The only thing that concerns me is the redwood in the center of your neck. That is a soft easily dented wood that your truss rod would push against, should it need much adjustment. It may never be an issue, but it is something to keep an eye on.

SR

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31
On 1/30/2017 at 1:02 PM, ScottR said:

Yeah, in the words of Orgmorg, it will sound like a guitar. Actually, every account I've heard says pine bodied guitars sound great.

The only thing that concerns me is the redwood in the center of your neck. That is a soft easily dented wood that your truss rod would push against, should it need much adjustment. It may never be an issue, but it is something to keep an eye on.

SR

I gave it a thumbnail test before and it definitely gives way pretty easily. When you adjust the truss rod, does it push more against the end of the channel at the heel end of the neck, or is it more that it pushes downward along the bottom of the whole channel?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31

Couple more updates - making some progress with the headstock. I had a little scrap of the redwood left so I sandwiched it in a couple of the oak pieces.

Made a little mod for the router sled for more thin workpieces:

Photo Jan 28, 7 37 18 PM.jpg

The shape is actually going to end up more to the left than this because of the scarfed portion, I failed to plan but I think that little devil on the bottom is going to be right smack on the bottom line of the headstock:

Photo Jan 28, 8 08 21 PM.jpg

Going at it with cedar again, I want to try some layering further down the line with the headstock. Something tells me this guitar is going to be full of nicks and dents into it's life.

Photo Jan 28, 8 27 49 PM.jpgPhoto Jan 28, 8 35 22 PM.jpgPhoto Jan 28, 8 45 06 PM.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by djobson101
Added wrong pictures accidentally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31

I had much better luck with this jig for scarfing. I failed to realize though that it would have made it incredibly easier to have extended flat sections of the angled guides, in order to set the depth of the router with ease. I wasted a lot of time playing around with it to see where the bit would contact the work. I guess I could cut and attach guides to achieve this.

(forgot an after pic of the cleaned up joint on the neck):

Photo Jan 29, 3 16 39 AM.jpg

New sandwich got the treatment as well (question - to avoid the tearout at the bottom, would adding scrap wood underneath help prevent this?)

Photo Jan 29, 4 19 24 PM.jpg

The neck itself is still thick enough where that portion will be worked away eventually... but I would like to try and get it better in the future.

Finally! It was warm enough to be able to glue something out in the garage and not have to bring it inside:

Photo Jan 29, 5 21 30 PM.jpg

And the end result. Before gluing, I went the route of drilling holes and dropped a couple little nails in the scrap areas to help keep it in place. As it sits now, she is a bit neck heavy :D

Photo Jan 31, 10 37 47 PM.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ScottR    1,366
8 hours ago, djobson101 said:

I gave it a thumbnail test before and it definitely gives way pretty easily. When you adjust the truss rod, does it push more against the end of the channel at the heel end of the neck, or is it more that it pushes downward along the bottom of the whole channel?

The truss rod pushes at both ends in one direction (up or down) and the opposite direction in the middle. The headstock end is where you actually see the deflection though, because it is  farther away from the support of the body and the neck is thinner at that end.

8 hours ago, djobson101 said:

New sandwich got the treatment as well (question - to avoid the tearout at the bottom, would adding scrap wood underneath help prevent this?)

Yes, but it would have to be tight to your board and you would have to account for the extra thickness in your jig.

SR

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jdogg    33

Just a suggestion...  add some Carbon fiber bars to the neck.  that should make it overly stiff.

that way you should need to adjust the trussrod to introduce some relief...  at that point in time the trussrod is acting upon the top of the channel at the nut where the redwood wood below is thinnest / weakest.  it would be acting upon your fretboard at the nut and on your redwood in the middle where it's a little thicker / less likely to bulge...

bit of a risk tho, if the neck blank becomes too rigid it may make things worse and you'll have a blowout in the middle of the neck....

Just my 2 cents tho.  love the build... good luck!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31
On 2/1/2017 at 11:06 AM, Jdogg said:

Just a suggestion...  add some Carbon fiber bars to the neck.  that should make it overly stiff.

that way you should need to adjust the trussrod to introduce some relief...  at that point in time the trussrod is acting upon the top of the channel at the nut where the redwood wood below is thinnest / weakest.  it would be acting upon your fretboard at the nut and on your redwood in the middle where it's a little thicker / less likely to bulge...

bit of a risk tho, if the neck blank becomes too rigid it may make things worse and you'll have a blowout in the middle of the neck....

Just my 2 cents tho.  love the build... good luck!

Thanks! - I was definitely wondering about using carbon rods for bulking this neck up some. What do you mean as far as the middle possibly blowing out though? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31

Got a little more work done today, I didn't manage to get any pictures until I was done..

Trimmed the rest of the neck & headstock. I realized that I should have thicknessed the headstock before glueing it to the neck - I had a hell of a time trying to secure the thing in my router sled face down with the body up in the air. Had a close call when it came free at one point! I should be able to clean it up though.

IMG_2505.JPG 

I'm thinking of trying a volute here. 

IMG_2506.JPG

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pan_kara    151

So apparently nobody asked yet: why 27" scale? Is this going to be a baritone, or you just want to go with normal tuning and a long scale?

I love the design, on the other hand all the little slip-ups during building so remind me of my own work :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31
17 hours ago, pan_kara said:

So apparently nobody asked yet: why 27" scale? Is this going to be a baritone, or you just want to go with normal tuning and a long scale?

I love the design, on the other hand all the little slip-ups during building so remind me of my own work :D

It'll be standard most likely, although I'm definitely in the future going to build something like this to either tune down or go 7 or 8 string. The best answer/reason is that I have big hands - ukuleles, mandolins and even Gibsons just throw their heads back and laugh when they see me coming :lol: I feel like 25.5" scale is the minimum I feel comfortable on.

I was intrigued back when too I saw that the Buckethead model LP came with a 27" scale. This was actually an inspiration to want to build a guitar in the first place - I would go around to guitar shops to ask if they had anything larger than Fender scale I could try out, and never found anything. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ScottR    1,366

That is an excellent reason! Are you planning to use heavy strings to keep the tension closer to normal?

SR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31

So I'm actually not sure how to approach the string gauge for this guitar. Is it that using light or normal gauge strings on the longer scale creates more tension by the time it's tuned up?

As long as I can get away with using a string set without a wound G string I think I'll be happy. 

Edited by djobson101
Without a wound G! Can't stand the things :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pan_kara    151

Basically you need to put a lighter set on to get similar string tension when maintaining tuning but going longer scale.

Compare for example the open A string and the low E fretted at the 5th fret - its the same note, but the vibrating length of the A string is longer now that the E string is fretted. And the A string is thinner than the E string. So as you increase scale length you'd need to get strings thinner.

You can check any of the string tension calculators available online, apparently going from 25,5" to 27" is more or less compensated by taking a sting set lighter by one "step". So to reproduce the feel of 10's on 25,5" you'd need to put 9's on 27". (just checked on http://stringtensionpro.com/)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
curtisa    467

The other thing to consider when changing gauges and scale lengths that isn't allowed for in string tension calculators is the elasticity of the string, or how resistant the string feels to bending. A guitar with 27" scale length will feel looser than a guitar with 25" scale length if they are both tuned to the same pitch and the one with the longer scale length has a string set compensated to maintain the same tension as the instrument with 25" scale length.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31

Woops, adding pictures out of order :blush

I guess what I'll do when it's strung up (a very ambitious statement at the moment) is try out varying gauges to see what feels 'right' for this. Also because I most definitely would like to do another of this same guitar in the future to keep in a different tuning, so there will be room for trying different things.

I used some cedar to try and decorate the back of this thing. It is really, really soft.

Photo Feb 04, 3 20 51 AM.jpg

Edited by djobson101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31

I picked up a used 14" drill press from a commercial liquidation tag sale recently, and have been having good times so far with it! I was anxious to give this a shot.

58ae5abc11858_PhotoFeb0420906AM.thumb.jpg.01de93c3c7abd16072982ef98e573efc.jpg

58ae5ac822dac_PhotoFeb0422930AM.thumb.jpg.00ce00ad2ff0d18e0e9db49c012ebdf7.jpg

Finished her off with the trusty Makita:

58ae5ad934b99_PhotoFeb0430847AM.thumb.jpg.d5ea561a18c3d15b3d94e2c7604c0613.jpg

It's really teetering on being truly "neck through" at this point :happy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
djobson101    31

I'm just getting really happy with using templates now.58ae5be630842_PhotoFeb0674228PM.thumb.jpg.00701dcbc17e57113b73ea42e9679536.jpg

This will get cleaned up of course when it comes to working on the neck:58ae5bf635a1e_PhotoFeb0680321PM.thumb.jpg.e1d26d9850e6f9ecf4193f8199ea0c81.jpg

With all the rough areas on her it's really kind of a hot mess right now but I swear I will be giving it much needed attention in the near future. I didn't forsee that the round nose bits cut like... that, but the neck is still too thick anyway. I actually went back and did the cut again with a wider diameter bit to smooth the transition more, but I am having trouble with my system of retrieving pictures from my phone and getting them on the computer. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×