Mike.Mara Posted April 16, 2017 Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Mateyboy said: It's not a problem... yet... fingers crossed! This is interesting, never actually looked at it this way. I guess it would be a lot less hassle than unclamping the neck every number of strokes to check progress. Hopefully all will continue to go well! The guys at PRS have some interesting jigs and ways of doing things, they even have big extractors behind their radiusing jigs so all they have to do is brush the dust away instead of grabbing a shop vac. It all seems very efficient! If I ever try radiusing by hand again that will probably be the way I'll try it. (My first attempt at radiusing and slotting by hand did not go well lol). Looking forward to seeing how this turns out! Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateyboy Posted April 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 23 hours ago, Mike.Mara said: My first attempt at radiusing and slotting by hand did not go well lol Yeah, I'm not confident enough to slot a fretboard, although I have an idea. When I buy my next fretboard I might make a slotting jig with it; that is use the bought one to make a template from. last couple of days I've left the neck alone, I've been 120 gritting the body. Moving on to 180 grit today. I'll go back to the neck when I can dedicate some quality time to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 Slotting a board by hand is a combination of keeping the board secure, the blade level and that it doesn't wander around. I've a number of tricks which I use when slotting, which I even do when using a mitre slotting box simply as a second safeguar, such as using a pocket flashlight directly over the saw so that it casts a thin shadow over the board where it will be slotting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Mara Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 4 hours ago, Mateyboy said: Yeah, I'm not confident enough to slot a fretboard, although I have an idea. When I buy my next fretboard I might make a slotting jig with it; that is use the bought one to make a template from. I was thinking of using my CNC to make a mitre box like the StewMac/LMII style since I can make one for a lot less than theirs cost. You might be better off getting a fret ruler to make a box from though, as if you slip with the saw you could ruin both. (That's assuming you're thinking of running a saw in the slots to mark stock either side of course). 3 hours ago, Prostheta said: Slotting a board by hand is a combination of keeping the board secure, the blade level and that it doesn't wander around. I've a number of tricks which I use when slotting, which I even do when using a mitre slotting box simply as a second safeguar, such as using a pocket flashlight directly over the saw so that it casts a thin shadow over the board where it will be slotting. The flashlight idea is a good one! I probably never would have thought of that but I can see how that would give you a nice fine shadow... Almost like a laser line. That's going to come in handy for quite a few things! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 If I get it finished in time, I'll share the tool I made (and how I made it) in a video segment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateyboy Posted April 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Hi all, looking for a bit of advice. I'm almost finished sanding the body. I have read somewhere that I should raise the grain and sand again with 220 grit. I assume that this means I dampen the wood with a damp cloth then resand it. Then I want to enhance the grain with black ink on the top side of the body before I stain it. Again, assumptions; I stain the body then sand it back down? Then there's grain filler? Do I need it, is it essential? Any tips/advice would be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Raising the grain is about removing damaged or unsupported fibres from the surface. Usually machine and sanding will damage and distort a lot of them, so as soon as a finish hits them they raise and create a furry uneven finish. Especially with water since wood fibres are hygroscopic. Simply wet the surface with a cloth (not wringing wet) and let it dry. Knock back any raised fibres with 240 or 320 grit. Repeat until water doesn't cause the surface to fur up. Grain filler is needed on woods that have open pores, such as Mahogany, Wenge, Rosewood, etc. Finish going over those will sink into the pores and leave an uneven surface with lots of pin holes. If that's not a problem, you don't need to grain fill. Otherwise, those pores need sealing up so you can build a flat finish over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I personally dislike using black to highlight figure as it looks highly artificial and more like a photo finish or veneer. Try using dark browns or other colours, as they tend to look more natural. Either way, test on scrap and see what you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 This is what happens when you French polish over Zebrano without grain filler. Notice the shiny highlights around each pore. The shellac doesn't fill the pores unless you do a light cut with pumice. That's just French polishing stuff though. A grain filler like Brummer (my favourite) or even watered-down wood filler works. Egg white is also usable, but requires practice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateyboy Posted April 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 54 minutes ago, Prostheta said: I personally dislike using black to highlight figure as it looks highly artificial and more like a photo finish or veneer. Try using dark browns or other colours, as they tend to look more natural. Either way, test on scrap and see what you prefer. I know what you mean, but I kind of like the idea of having my black burst going into the black grain under the cherry top, however I will take your advice on this and try both out on some scrap wood. some great advice on finishing, thanks a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 No problem, always welcome. I think the word is definitely, "pop". Black just doesn't seem to provide that. I'm sure that this is not a hard and fast rule of course, however accentuating the rising and falling grain ("figure") in a piece is a balance of increasing contrast versus maintaining the 3D look (chatoyance). The extremes here are using black dye to increase contrast, which flattens the look of depth completely. The other end of the scale might be say, oil.....which enhances contrast minimally, but flatters the depth. I've wanted a black cherry instrument for a long time myself. I love the look....that kind of deep "black in the dark" but bright deep cherry in the light thing. It can be done with the black dye/sandback routine with plenty of clears and toners over the top, but I think some of the movement and natural depth in the wood is important to maintain otherwise it can be like a photo under glass if you get what I mean. Flatter the wood and then dress it, rather than bash it flat with a meat hammer and pressing it under glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateyboy Posted April 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Hi all I've raised the grain, sanded it down (240 grit) and all that jazz (4 or 5 times, can't remember). I used some black ink to cover the top, sanded down and applied 3 coats of crimson guitars water based stain. I think I am happy with the results so far. I'm going to leave it for 24 hours and see how it comes out. I can then start thinking about how to get the black 'burst' nitro finish. My next build won't be poplar, I fancy something with a better grain, however another first for me! Now back to that neck... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Doing a burst in the nitro itself ("toner coats") is a skill and a half. Do a lot of practice before committing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateyboy Posted April 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 45 minutes ago, Prostheta said: Doing a burst in the nitro itself ("toner coats") is a skill and a half. Do a lot of practice before committing! What's the worst that can happen? I have to start again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 You'd do that by choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateyboy Posted April 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 No, I'm hoping I don't have to. My biggest worry at the moment is the neck. I think the body will look fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateyboy Posted May 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 Hi So I've put some dot inlays the neck. I made a mistake on the first two... a bit of a dopey error really. I wasn't using a wood drill bit and I got some 'chip-out'! I should be able to fix it with some ebony dust. I'm going to nitro the body over the weekend. I'm really liking the look so far: However... this is the first neck I've tried to build and it is pretty sloppy! An example is given here: The fretboard has a little gap, not clamped down properly.The profile is looking ok but it's not perfect. I haven't finished the headstock yet, or the fretting so that is ok so far... I'm a bit down because of the neck so do I: 1) Carry on regardless, finish it and make the next one better (learning from the mistakes - and there's a few!) 2) Try to recover, maybe fill the gaps and nitro the neck black. 3) Bin the neck, start again and learn from my mistakes. I think 1 is the way I should go, at least I'll get the project finished, I'll still learn from my mistakes and the mistakes will remind me what not to do next time... and I'll still have a guitar that will hopefully play a tune!!! I'm only putting cheap hardware on it and some old humbuckers in it I took out of my Ibanez RG. So there is no real expense from completing it. All thoughts would be greatly appreciated... The neck is demotivating me!!! JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu. Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 1. Carry on, because the remaining tasks required to get the neck finished are worth practicing. It would be a shame to move on to your next neck without milking this one for experience. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 Like I say to a lot of people JT - if you're expecting perfection on the first build, you'll always kick yourself rather than taking something from a flawed experience. Stay the course, see the build through. If there are things you can reasonably and practically backtrack on, that's an option. If not, go for the finish line whether you finish first, second or last. Just finish. Your next build will always be ten times better from what you've taken from this experience, and the things you've gotten good at will be even better. I am sure that it'll surprise you when you string it up and get a basic setup in there. That will kick those demotivation blues right in the arse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 Just now, Stu. said: 1. Carry on, because the remaining tasks required to get the neck finished are worth practicing. It would be a shame to move on to your next neck without milking this one for experience. Ha! We were both on the same thought train there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateyboy Posted May 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 Yeah, you're both right... I'm going to crack on... I'll look back on it with fondness in a few years! Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu. Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 29 minutes ago, Prostheta said: Ha! We were both on the same thought train there. Except your phrasing was much better! 12 minutes ago, Mateyboy said: Yeah, you're both right... I'm going to crack on... I'll look back on it with fondness in a few years! Thanks! Damn right, you will! Guitar building is a slow-burn hobby with a depth of learning potential. Throughout the course of your first guitar, you'll end up discovering a hundred different techniques and pitfalls you never anticipated, but it's all part of the process. You'll find your own way of doing everything too; take what advice you can get and combine it with what you know works for you. It's incredibly rewarding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 Definitely carry on. There is much to be learned, which will still be true when you start your 10th build, they'll just be new things to learn. Mistake recovery (sometimes called accident recovery) is one of those things on the to be learned list. It will come into play on more builds than not, and done well can turn a lot of good builds into great one. Why not work some glue into those gaps and clamp them shut? At best you'll like your neck better and at worst you'll be exactly where you are now. Then finish it. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateyboy Posted May 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 Hi all This weekend I had some mini disasters and something presentable, so far: Disaster, the nitro on the sides and back can't took well to the body. I need to sand it down and reapply again. I done it in the garden as it was a nice enough day but it was windy and I guess that's what made it look crap. I'm going to make a little spray booth in the workshop, that makes more sense. The front looks ok, even if the black is a little due - I'm hoping the clear nitro and polish will sparkle it up. I used some light wood filler on the neck and it looks ok - not got any pictures. So I'll roll with that on this build. JT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratsRdivine Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 Many here have sanded down to bare wood multiple times to get it right. Maybe sand some scrap wood and do all finishing tests on that - all the way through to final buff before making all the mistakes on the real thing. Also - gaps on dark woods against light woods fill great with epoxy - you would never know there was a gap in the fingerboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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