Chuck_Chill-Out Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 On 5/4/2017 at 7:35 AM, Prostheta said: I guess the role of a piper is to underline suffering, if not simply to cause it. I don't know how to take that since my last name is Piper. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 I'd be more concerned if your parents named you, "Bag"..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 So to fret slotting. I tried out the Guitar & Woods jig on some scrap. The jig is screwed down to the workbench (using some old neck fixing screws, of course!) and then I am using the vertical bench clamps to firmly hold the fretboard (stuck to the jig template with a couple of small strips of 2-sided tape): ...and then using the real fretboard: Using the jig is SOOOOO much easier than using a block, which is how I did the last one. However, the jig is not perfect. Three of the bottom bearings retaining bolts came loose in use - and one dropped out with its bearing that could have been disastrous (you can see in the shot above - the bottom bearing of the top left hand unit - and that's after just 4 slots)! Then, when I tightened them up properly, realised that it locked the bearings - so I had to use them loose and just hand tighten them back up a few times as I went up the fretboard. I will email G&W - it should be easily fixed with the correct size washer retaining the bearing or a spot of loctite on the thread but renders the jig actually not fit for purpose without keeping a very close eye on it (those bearings are, after all, the whole raison d'etre of the flipping thing). Anyway, that aside, here they are, all slotted: Need to discuss with Mick what he prefers for the wider fretslots after the body join (fret the full width of the slot or fret to the 'normal' extent and infill the rest of the slot with maple veneer, but I won't be fretting until the extra-wide radius block arrives and I've driven myself to insanity radiusing it, so a while before we have to decide that one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 That's very odd. Let me have a quick look at mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 Yep. Sounds like yours was assembled sans washers. My bearings are locked down tight and run sweet as a nut. Carlos will sort you out, I'm sure of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 I've just taken the rig off the bench and, to be honest, it's a bit of a shambles. Three of the bearings will tighten up OK, three have washers both sides but lock up with anything over finger tightness, one has an obviously oversized washer fitted that predictably locks up and one has two washers one side of the bearing and none on the other so also locks up. Looking at your photo, the washers, I reckon, are wider than yours and thinner so are catching the outer race. Now I've had a proper look, I'm surprised that it didn't end up with a scrap fretboard.....in fact, I need to double check the scale lengths to make sure I haven't anyway. Disappointing.... I'll drop Carlos a line right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 Bummer. Just checked the fretboard and it's a scrapper. 8 of the slots are out of position - one of them 0.5mm out. I hope that G&W can sort this out quickly as it's right on the critical path of the build... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 Just heard from G&W who have promised to send out replacement parts with my order placed over the weekend. Good customer service so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Replacement washers are on the way so, on the basis of "even in the best operations errors will happen, but in the best operations they will be fixed quickly and without question" then full marks for G&W. Two niggles remain. First is, and this would be probably be G&W's supplier, an individual will have known this was wrong. For 5 of the bearings to run free, the set screws - after tightening properly like the other three OK ones - would have had to have been backed off. So the individual would have known this was wrong and would have known this would then not work properly and hid both facts. When I ran manufacturing operations, this was one of the very, very few actions that would lead to a worker being summarily dismissed....and that person owes me a fretboard out of his final pay packet. The other is that Carlos said in his mail that they had had some issues with washers sometime back and this one must have got through. If that is the case, it might have been wise for G&W to spend the 5 secs it would take to check this raison d'etre feature on these pretty expensive units as they are packed for shipment (they are not separately packaged so entirely practical to do). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 It wouldn't be a Project Guitar build thread without a few hiccups to deal with. On the upside we get to milk a few more bagpipe jokes while we wait. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 41 minutes ago, curtisa said: It wouldn't be a Project Guitar build thread without a few hiccups to deal with. On the upside we get to milk a few more bagpipe jokes while we wait. Well some would say that my comments above are just all hot air.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: The other is that Carlos said in his mail that they had had some issues with washers sometime back and this one must have got through. That's his standard excuse I guess... ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Sometimes it's difficult as a store owner to give answers when you might not have them yourself. When things go wrong at work (they do) I like to know where it started and why. Firstly to prevent future re-occurrence and secondly so I can give an honest and full explanation. That's a whole process of itself sometimes. Carlos might not have immediate answers, and could well be hunting for his own at that end. Speculating on what is most likely rather than leaving you waiting in the cold is fine, because at least you're being kept live. I don't think it's useful looking too deeply into things since its the deeds done to make things right that truly matter. "Why" isn't always useful information. Parent: Shit happens. Child: Why? Parent: Because shit happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 The good news is that the replacement washers arrived this morning. The one of the left is the replacement one - the O.D. is about the same as the inner race of the bearing it's clamping up against. There were 3 sizes on the assembly I received, none anywhere near the correct one. Most were the ones on the right - wide enough to fully press against the race cover and the edge of the outer race - hence them clamping up when tightened. The one in the middle was obviously one the operator found on the floor or in his/her pocket when they were assembling it Anyway, with the correct washers installed, guess what? Yup...the slots are in the right places. An afternoon's work and I'm back to where I was at the weekend. This is with the new one temporarily placed in position: Overall view about the mitre jig now it's been fixed? Well - OK overall. +'s Nicely machined. Looks quality despite my poor experience with the actual quality. Much easier to produce an accurate position and depth than hand doing with a block. Takes a lot of the fear factor out...provided it is set up and used correctly (but see below) Much quicker than hand marking and cutting with a block -'s Pity it doesn't incorporate clamps. I was fortunate in that my bench allowed me to use the bench clamps: No instructions on set up or use at all. And if it isn't properly set up you simply get your slots wrong quicker....a kind of efficiency boost, I suppose, but not necessarily in a good way I'm going to have a look on their website, but I don't recall there being any web-based instructions either. If I'm wrong, I'll correct this statement (just checked - definitely no instructions). So to see how to use it, probably means looking on the LMI or Stewmac site or YouTube Luthier Tips du jour (featuring LMI).....hmm...well THOSE look nice jigs.... Anyway - the extra wide radius block also came, so I can now look forward to sanding until insanity sets in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 That's a really good point Andy. Good material for a tutorial....how to set up and use the mitre box. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, Prostheta said: That's a really good point Andy. Good material for a tutorial....how to set up and use the mitre box. Yes...but...ahem...I need to finish the veneer one first....I know, I know, I know! I will TRY to do them both before Brexit results in the UK being cut off from all electronic communication (and probably electricity in general) and reverting to lighting beacons to communicate with ourselves, as no-one else will be talking to us ...and whenever did democracy involve asking the general population what THEY thought we should do??????!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I can cover the write-up, I think. I really like the idea with your clamps however. I'm not much of a Sjöbergs fan however those are ideal for the job. That should be mentioned as another way of clamping. Of course, the intended use is to use a scale ruler, however the wider box means either clamps or a shim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 If it's any consolation @Andyjr1515, the Stewmac mitre box that the G&W one is based on didn't come with setup instructions or integral clamps either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, curtisa said: If it's any consolation @Andyjr1515, the Stewmac mitre box that the G&W one is based on didn't come with setup instructions or integral clamps either. There is a fairly comprehensive video on the use and set up on their web site, though (although does miss adjusting the blade width, including the critical need to ensure that the jig is squared up)....and certainly the present version does have integral clamps (presumably both are recent upgrades?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Quite possibly, but at the time I bought mine (a couple of years ago maybe?) it came with a noticable lack of accoutrements, with the exception of the allen wrenches to adjust everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Prostheta said: I can cover the write-up, I think. I really like the idea with your clamps however. I'm not much of a Sjöbergs fan however those are ideal for the job. That should be mentioned as another way of clamping. Of course, the intended use is to use a scale ruler, however the wider box means either clamps or a shim. Those Sjoberg vertical clamps have turned out to be the ones I use the most of all of my clamps. They are great. No good used on a Workmate, though - they clamp with high side force in the dog hole and split workmate tops like snapping matchsticks! You are right about the scale rule being sized to the standard box width. However, I use relatively light application of two sided tape and personally wouldn't trust that alone against the side force of the saw on the fretboard itself (which will usually be narrower than both the box and the ruler so would always want to have additional clamping. The LMI solution to integral clamping looks a bit over the top but I'm sure would work fine. The Stewmac solution looks simple and I'm sure works equally fine. I guess it would be maybe possible as a future enhancement of the G&W version.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, curtisa said: Quite possibly, but at the time I bought mine (a couple of years ago maybe?) it came with a noticable lack of accoutrements, with the exception of the allen wrenches to adjust everything. It is surprising, isn't it...even having to track down their video is a bit naff....particularly if there isn't even a little slip that says 'For instructions on use, please see our video on www.stew......'. It is quite a complex bit of kit for the initial set up where, if you miss out a step, will result in equipment that is simply 'not fit for purpose'. I like to think that both Stewmac and G&W are better than this...they certainly should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I was under the impression that Stewmac were trying to encourge us to be 'real men'. Real men, as we all know, don't need instructions to program the VCR to do timer recording, erect a four-person tent or adjust a fret slotting mitre box 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I usually mount the fretboard blank flush with back edge of the template/scale rule, and place some shims between the front edge of the blank and the front sidewall of the miter box. This allows the sidewalls to hold the blank in position, and you don't have to fuss with unclamping for every fret slot cut. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 This is of course when the blank is square. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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