Crusader Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 Hi all For years I have not been able to buy these DPDT ON-ON-ON switches in local stores so I am forced to buy them online but I don't know enough about them to get the right ones. There is also a huge difference in price from store to store so I am also wondering if there is a difference in quality or are some people just ripping you off? So my questions are 1) What's the correct amp/voltage for guitars? 2) Are some better quality than others? Thanks in advance for any guidance, cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 5 hours ago, Crusader said: 1) What's the correct amp/voltage for guitars? Not important. You're talking about switching milli-volt or micro-amp signals. Whatever fits in the hole on the scratchplate will work. 5 hours ago, Crusader said: 2) Are some better quality than others? Maybe. Possibly. Probably. On-on-on is a switching configuration that has limited appeal outside guitar circles, so it's not surprising that they command a higher price compared to the other versions. Less demand = high price to offset the lower returns. C&K used to be a good name associated with mini toggles. I suspect you'll struggle to get the retailer to tell you what brand they're selling though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted June 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Hi thanks for your reply I would have thought these type of switches had more uses than for guitar. Yes come to think of it C&K rings a bell By the way another question; I've seen some of them called "(on)-on-on" and "on-on-(on)" What does the "on" in brackets mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Usually the brackets indicate that the actuator has a spring return to the centre position, so it won't stay in the bracketed position unless you're holding it there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted June 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 Ah I see, momentary ... (mom) thanks for that cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted June 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 Well I scrounged through a box of junk and found one that I had given it up for dead about 10 years ago. Cleaned it up with a tiny brush like an archaeological find and it works perfectly well! Then I did a bit of investigating to help anyone else looking for this item and I came up with C&K PART NUMBER 7211SH3ZQE Although there is some confusion between some terminologies. i.e. The Mouser website calls it a "DPDT contact form" and C&K call it "SP3T circuit type" and I don't know if "contact form" and "circuit type" are two different things. Check it out here, its a mine-field of information http://www.ckswitches.com/media/1394/7000toggle.pdf These things are hard to get right now, most places are out of stock for 10 weeks. I ended up buying from someone on eBay and they didn't give any part numbers or manufacturer so I'm keeping my fingers crossed LOL There is one place (Mara..?) that has one in stock. The picture looks exactly like the one I've got. it's $11 but the shipping to Australia is $150 There are other manufacturers though and I'm sure they are perfectly fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 7 hours ago, Crusader said: The Mouser website calls it a "DPDT contact form" and C&K call it "SP3T circuit type" and I don't know if "contact form" and "circuit type" are two different things. I can't see a mention of "SP3T circuit type" in the datasheet you've linked. It's seems pretty clear that part no 7211 is a DPDT with an on-on-on switching pattern (bottom of page 2), which is what you're after. Be wary of the description/photos used on Mouser and the like. You'll notice that the picture shown on the Mouser website for the on-on-on DPDT toggle is a SPDT switch. Always refer to the part number provided and cross-reference it against the datasheet to verify its function. Mouser and others have a handy parametric search function that can help narrow down a part based on requirements. Looks like the E-Switch 100DP6T1... is a similar thing at a third of the price: http://au.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/_/N-5g2j?P=1z0z2o3Z1z0z812Z1z0z2xk&Ns=Pricing|0 Also try looking on Element14, RS Australia and Digikey. They might not be the cheapest places to find them, but you will get exactly the part number you order, and most of them offer free overnight shipping once you get past about $55. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 7 hours ago, curtisa said: I can't see a mention of "SP3T circuit type" in the datasheet you've linked. It's seems pretty clear that part no 7211 is a DPDT with an on-on-on switching pattern (bottom of page 2), which is what you're after Hi I should have posted this page as well, this is where it says SP3T Circuit. When you use the Product Search and choose "on-on-on" under Switch Function, the "DPDT" option disappears from the Circuit list, and visa versa. However on the Mouser or any other website, any part number starting with 7211 is described as DPDT. I think it must be an error and this is one reason why trying to find things and figure things out can be so time consuming http://www.ckswitches.com/product-search/?Group_Rating=5A+to+<10A&Sealing=Unsealed&Type=Toggle&Switch_Function=On-On-On&Circuit=SP3T&Electrical_Life_Cycles=40000&Group_Circuit=SP&Series=7000&DC_Voltage_Rating=28V&AC_Voltage_Rating=120V&Termination_Style=Solder+Lug&Bushing_Thread=1%2F4+-+40&Panel_Cutout_Dimensions=Circular+-+6.35mm+Dia&Actuator_Length=10.16mm&Group_Mounting=Panel+Mount&Mounting_Type=Panel+Mount%2C+Rear%2C+Threaded&Actuator_Type=Standard+Round 7 hours ago, curtisa said: Be wary of the description/photos used Yes absolutely, and another reason why this can take so long 7 hours ago, curtisa said: Mouser and others have a handy parametric search function that can help narrow down a part based on requirements. Looks like the E-Switch 100DP6T1... is a similar thing at a third of the price That is good to know. The reason I aimed for C&K was to ensure that I get switches with the same functions etc as the ones I had before. As it turns out I don't know if I'm going to get C&K in the order I made. The picture looks like them but as you said its no guarantee. As long as they are on-on-on I don't mind Also on topic there is a post on Harmony Central showing how to convert "on-off-on" switches into "on-on-on" Now that is something I would have tried years ago but my experience is I always louse it up and better to just buy the right product in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 50 minutes ago, Crusader said: I should have posted this page as well, this is where it says SP3T Circuit. When you use the Product Search and choose "on-on-on" under Switch Function, the "DPDT" option disappears from the Circuit list, and visa versa. Very odd. As you say, must be an error on C&Ks part. The function is definitely DPDT. I'd trust the datasheet more than the search function. 50 minutes ago, Crusader said: Also on topic there is a post on Harmony Central showing how to convert "on-off-on" switches into "on-on-on" Now that is something I would have tried years ago but my experience is I always louse it up and better to just buy the right product in the first place I agree. My experience of modifying sealed products to perform a different function has usually resulted in something that works fine for a few months and then gradually fails as components that were initially assembled within certain tolerances start to fall apart prematurely. Edit: just did a search and I found the thread you mention. He's specifically talking about converting large toggles rather than the mini toggles that are commonly used in guitars. My concern about the longevity of the mod still stands, even moreso that it wasn't/isn't proven to be feasable on a smaller switch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted June 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 On 02/06/2017 at 7:01 AM, curtisa said: I suspect you'll struggle to get the retailer to tell you what brand they're selling though. Well the switches arrived today and they are definitely not the one pictured in their ad, so you're right there. However they seem perfectly alright and the price was quite reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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