Prostheta Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 It might be good for @ScottR to second this if he agrees, as I suspect that there may still be a lot of solvent trapped under the semi-permeable coats which will offgas over a very long people of time. Scott (and a lot of other people as far as I am aware) breaks the skin with light sanding, allowing solvents to permeate out at a higher rate. It's not conducive to fast finishing, but I think that's the nature of the game when you're not working with catalysts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Prostheta said: It might be good for @ScottR to second this if he agrees, as I suspect that there may still be a lot of solvent trapped under the semi-permeable coats which will offgas over a very long people of time. Scott (and a lot of other people as far as I am aware) breaks the skin with light sanding, allowing solvents to permeate out at a higher rate. It's not conducive to fast finishing, but I think that's the nature of the game when you're not working with catalysts. Consider that seconded. I does appear to help get a quicker, more thorough cure, and it removes a bit of the finish on the surface, so there is less to wait for to cure. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 I'd be hesitant to use the term "thorough cure" since like nitro it never truly cures and can be reflowed with solvents. I think that's the case here with this Washin lacquer. More accurately its the rate at which the solvents can volatilise to the atmosphere. They move relatively swiftly from wood but very slowly through layers of lacquer. The last time I used a 1K lacquer, I had access to a proper paint oven to encourage the solvents to GTFO of town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 I’m confused. This stuff is supposed to be an oil-based urethane that cleans with paint thinner ... would it still be considered a lacquer? It is definitely quicker drying than any nitrocellulose lacquer I’ve used, and the smell disappears much faster, but I’ll have to wait and see how long it takes to get hard enough polish correctly. After the first coat, I sanded back almost to wood (and fully to wood in a few places), and the second coat nearly as much. The third and forth coats were dry-sanded pretty thoroughly with #400. So even though I’m on the fifth coat, it is pretty thin. If after I let my buddy’s son build it and play it, I’m not satisfied, I’ll pull it apart again, give it a good coat, and wait a few weeks. I want to get this squared away so I can get working on my daughter’s Chinaberry Six. Thanks guys for the input! Will post my observations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 Not in the traditional sense, no. Modern usage of "lacquer" is pretty much any clear finish that dries through solvent evaporation. Language has just extended the usage to cover how the product has evolved and diversified. Unless we're being really strict about its usage (for example in Urushi lacquerware) I think we can call this lacquer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 Talking of which.... ....aside from books reading from the back to the front, lathes seem to run clockwise! @ScottR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Prostheta said: Not in the traditional sense, no. Modern usage of "lacquer" is pretty much any clear finish that dries through solvent evaporation. Language has just extended the usage to cover how the product has evolved and diversified. Unless we're being really strict about its usage (for example in Urushi lacquerware) I think we can call this lacquer. Gotcha. Much like we use “nisu” (varnish) for just about anything except “urushi.” The other exception is spray nitrocellulose lacquer, but that is becoming more and more rare as water-based paints are being aggressively marketed. Well, I had the body in an enclosed small room overnight, and the smell is pretty faint. Maybe I can crank up the heater for a day to promote off-gassing? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Prostheta said: Talking of which.... ....aside from books reading from the back to the front, lathes seem to run clockwise! @ScottR Haha! Actually, far less than half of books are “backwards” anymore ... since Win95 and the Internet, most things are Western standard, unless it’s written to make a traditional statement or a few official documents. The most interesting is taxicabs ... many have their company name written front-to-back, so right-to -left on the right side, and left-to-right on the left. This is especially funny when they write English “IXAT” on the right side of the car ... continuity? I don’t use a lathe, but if “they” say that Japanese lacquerware has been around 9,000 years, then clockwise is the correct rotation! I am sorely tempted to finish a guitar in black and red urushi someday. Edited June 19, 2018 by charisjapan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 I absolutely LOVE cultural idiosyncrasies such as this. Same same applies for words that have no direct translation, highlighting how language is a rich but sometimes limited construct for defining and conveying human culture. A simple one that comes to mind here in Finland is the richness of silence within conversations. At least amongst adults anyway. People stay silent and think rather than just talk and hope that speech works at the speed of thought. It rarely does. Cultures more often than not don't feel comfortable with silent mid-conversation and people feel they need to speak to break a silence rather than contemplate what is being said. It was weird to me, but Finns rarely notice that this happens. To an English person (for example) it might be interpreted as an awkward silence, and the same happens when you send a text or an email. No "okay" to acknowledge receipt. Just silence until it's actioned. It's very weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Prostheta said: I absolutely LOVE cultural idiosyncrasies such as this. Same same applies for words that have no direct translation, highlighting how language is a rich but sometimes limited construct for defining and conveying human culture. A simple one that comes to mind here in Finland is the richness of silence within conversations. At least amongst adults anyway. People stay silent and think rather than just talk and hope that speech works at the speed of thought. It rarely does. Cultures more often than not don't feel comfortable with silent mid-conversation and people feel they need to speak to break a silence rather than contemplate what is being said. It was weird to me, but Finns rarely notice that this happens. To an English person (for example) it might be interpreted as an awkward silence, and the same happens when you send a text or an email. No "okay" to acknowledge receipt. Just silence until it's actioned. It's very weird. ... 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Natural Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 12 hours ago, charisjapan said: Well, I had the body in an enclosed small room overnight, and the smell is pretty faint. Maybe I can crank up the heater for a day to promote off-gassing? CJ- what is your temp and humidity right now? its so hot and humid here if I were to finish i would need to add retarder to slow down the gassing off to avoid issues with moisture trapped in the finish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 I wouldn't push it too much. I think airflow is more important than pouring heat at it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, Mr Natural said: CJ- what is your temp and humidity right now? its so hot and humid here if I were to finish i would need to add retarder to slow down the gassing off to avoid issues with moisture trapped in the finish. For the middle of June, we are having downright cold (18C/65F) temps and rain ... another typhoon nearby, but they keep missing Yokohama. The past two weeks have been a muggy-warm/muggy cold dance. For a 1K lacquer/urethane, my rattle can spray is drying pretty fast, and clear as can be ... I was able to wet sand and hand polish the edges today with no issues. The top is the thickest area ... I laid it on first then again last, and clamped it face up each coat ... so will give it some more time to be sure. I will hold off a week before using my drill buffing wheel, as I don't want to risk heating it up. As to off-gassing, I cranked up the A.C. in one room to 30C all day, which also dries the air, and can hardly smell anything when I walk I the room. I'm hoping my aggressive sanding between coats makes for a thin, well-cured finish. and nanu nanu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 13 hours ago, charisjapan said: Gotcha. Much like we use “nisu” (varnish) for just about anything except “urushi.” The other exception is spray nitrocellulose lacquer, but that is becoming more and more rare as water-based paints are being aggressively marketed. Well, I had the body in an enclosed small room overnight, and the smell is pretty faint. Maybe I can crank up the heater for a day to promote off-gassing? Thanks again! I wouldn't push it too much. I think airflow is more important than pouring heat at it. As Natch says though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Prostheta said: I wouldn't push it too much. I think airflow is more important than pouring heat at it. Yeah, that and that fact that I got overheated! Airflow it has now, and looking good. edit: by airflow, I mean it's in the house now, with A.C. moving air around. Mrs, Charisjapan has not complained about the smell, so that is absolute proof that it doesn't!! Edited June 20, 2018 by charisjapan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 Shazbot. I was spraying aerosol 2K today after a couple of days of rain. It's not super humid, but closer to 50% than is preferred. The product I use can pop bubbles in the finish if it's too humid. It's funny stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Prostheta said: Shazbot. I was spraying aerosol 2K today after a couple of days of rain. It's not super humid, but closer to 50% than is preferred. The product I use can pop bubbles in the finish if it's too humid. It's funny stuff. Haha about Shazbot, not your humidity situation! I am considering a water-based 2K urethane brush-on for the first coat of the next build on super-grainy Chinaberry. It's super-clear, self-leveling, and sands down well. If it works well under this 1K spray, I may have a winner! I used the 2K on a Padauk shelf for my daughter's house, and it was gorgeous, so hoping it will serve well on a guitar. Wishing you a bubble-less finish! (is Finnish a bad pun? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 It definitely is a bad pun! I went out to check the body and neck and they seem surface tacky, but not "leaves fingerprints" tacky. I'll give it a week because it goes diamond-hard within a few days. Really nice and easy to sand back and take through the grits. If it turns out well I'll do a review on the product. From what I am led to believe - coupled with my limited experience of the market - this is the only proper catalysed two-component product on the market that doesn't need to be "activated" and used in a short time window. The remaining product in the can should make for an interesting test after a week as well....will it still work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 @Prostheta, I envy a place that has any kind of 2K aerosol ... Just nothing like that available here. Nothing like that can be sent here, and can’t bring it on an airplane ... even in Hawaii, my usual port-of-call in the U.S., nothing like that is available. I will just have to make do with what I have! Fortunately, I know that this 1K urethane will become very hard and tough eventually. I used it on the Chinaberry bass, just two coats, no sanding or polishing, and it’s hard as a rock, and resists buckle rash admirably. This is the first time to try and be a bit more fancy. Good luck with the aerosol being usable in a week. That would be amazing! The stuff I’m using now is okay for a week, but beyond that it’s in the bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 Neck almost done. 1mm off the back, .5 to 1.5mm off the front, now a nice 13mm thickness, and the tuner posts are now about 2mm taller than the nubs they were. In relation to the nut, just 1mm higher, but plenty of break angle. The edge is just a bit more slender, and I imagine the headstock weighs 10-12% less. I didn't experience neck dive per se, but definitely more head mass than my strat, so expecting a more balanced feel for this kind of guitar. I shaved a good 1mm off the far half of the neck, so hoping it will give me a similar profile as the Clapton strat neck ... my favorite. All the numbers are now nearly the same, but ya'll know that numbers don't necessarily = feel. High Hopes. (yes, THAT song ... Gilmour's lap guitar sends me to other places) (cue @Mr Natural ... ) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 7 hours ago, charisjapan said: This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Natural Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Found a couple new toys to shine up my toys! The little boxes contain precut #1000 and #1500 wet-sanding sheets ... with a matching little rubber block, perfect for details and complicated inner and outer arcs. I know it would be cheaper to just cut up my own, but these are cut perfectly, with no harsh edges that you sometimes get with scissors or cutter knives. Next are these little “toothbrush” sanding film tools ... the finest is #6000, or 2 microns. Haven't used them yet, but someday! All Made in Japan!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Cut out a little template to prewire the electronics. Two Volume and a Master Tone in a jazz bass no-switch layout. I may add push-pull switches after I hear the guitar ... On/Off for pickups, phase reversal, tone cap selector, coil splitting, partial tap, bright switch, no-load ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisjapan Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I just could not keep my mitts off! Too much temptation, even though I knew that I should wait another few days. So far, no damage. As I had resigned myself, this may have a slightly relic finish ... i.e. a bit of grain sinkage. Actually, I find myself not bothered by that! Someday I'll make an uber-shiny guitar, but this being Limba, I can't see the point of a mirror finish. AND, the Odie's Oil neck and headstock are super-grainy ... Is that enough rationalization? I could probably come up with a few more excuses for NOT GRAIN FILLING, but this should suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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