fantomaz Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Hi Guys, Here is a little project I just finished... As you may know Optek, the company who makes the Fretlight guitars are really horrible people, their led system is totally incompatible with magnetic pickups: the multiplexed voltage system they use to save on wiring produces an unbearable whining noise interference when used in conjunction with ANY magnetics pickups. You would have thought, after 30 years of using that technology, that they would have produced a piezo equipped guitar but no, they prefer to keep on duping their customers as they have always done... Anyway, I still think it's a valuable learning tool for visually oriented people so I came up with this little idea: I started with a second hand JTV69, I fitted a second hand fretlight neck, not a straightforward swap, lots of routing involved here, I found a way to fit the fretlight electronics in the already busy variax body, upgraded the pickups, fitted a cool decal and presto, here is the FRETLIGHTVARIAXOCASTER! The neck was slightly reshaped and is actually very comfortable, a million times better than the original neck, and, to my surprise, the guitar sounds really, really good with the magnetic pickups, it is on par with the best superstrats out there, with the added bonus of the variax sounds... I researched the old interweb a bit before i did this and found no other mention of a similar project so this might be the only in existence :-) Let me know what you think, and I'd be happy to assist anyone embarking in a similar project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Very cool! Can't see it working though....very small thumbnails.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantomaz Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 This might be a bit better; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantomaz Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 I installed the usb plug/switch assembly in the cutaway, it was the only space available, it works fine tough... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantomaz Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Pickups are a custom set from heartbreaker pickups, a local company here in Belgium, they sound absolutely amazing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightroExpress Posted July 5, 2017 Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 This is super cool! Any chance of a video walkthrough/demo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantomaz Posted July 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 I have very limited talents as a vlogger but I'll try to put something together.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted July 5, 2017 Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 Nice one. You say it lights up? Night shots are required! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantomaz Posted July 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 I does indeed, you can see that on the picture that is against the whitish floorboards but I'll try to make better photos.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted July 5, 2017 Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 Interesting project. You say the Fretlight electronics were the cause of the interference with the pickups - did you replace it with something else when you reinstalled the neck that corrects this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantomaz Posted July 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) The Fretlight electronics will cause interference with ANY magnetic pickups, in the form of a horrible high pitched whine, it's even worse with active pickups, it's a well documented fact all over the internet... ALL the electric guitars that OPTEK/Fretlight has sold over the last 30 years have had that problem.... It's a basic engineering mistake... I still dont understand how these guys are still in business... When you first contact them they tell you it's a ground loop, and that it is due to your setup, then when you contact their customer service with facts they say that the lights are only for learning, and should be turned off when you play the guitar into an amp, yet there is no mention of that in their promotional material, even worse, there is plenty of videos that show instructors using the guitar with the lights on which bucketloads of distortion, a noise gate, delay and reverb to mask the noise.... These guys are real crooks, I'm curious as how many people they actually turned AWAY from learning the guitar.... Anyway.... The reason for choosing the variax is that piezo systems, as the one used by the variax modelling system, are unaffected by the interference. You can have the lights on AND get a very decent acoustic or electric sound from the variax system. :-) I like having the cake AND eating it.... :-) Edited July 5, 2017 by fantomaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantomaz Posted July 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 Here is the promised walkthru: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 5, 2017 Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 Sounds like a fascinating project to have completed. It's got to be said that you've got a special bit of hatred for the Fretlight system noise....! It's a real shame if that problem occurs across all of them. I really don't understand how they could allow the product to be so ridiculously noisy....good solution with the Variax though. @curtisa - what do you think? I reckon the multiplex carrier (or component of it) is just too low a frequency. Having it in the audible frequency range is just dumb. I mean, mixing analogue and digital is fraught with problems as it stands, but that's just unacceptable in a product brought to market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantomaz Posted July 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 Its not all hatred about the Fretlight system, I think it is a valuable learning tool, and I think the educational content that they have produced over the years is actually quite good... What p***es me off is that they keep on hiding the foibles of the system to new customers, I guess what annoys me the most is the wasted potential of the whole thing... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted July 5, 2017 Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 I suspect it's more of a grounding or shielding issue than the frequency used multiplexing all the LEDs. If it were due to an abnormally low multiplex frequency I'd expect to see some strobing of the LEDs on video clips of the guitar in action, but you can't see that on any of the videos. I get very similar whining noise on any of my (non-Fretlight) guitars when plugged into the audio interface on my PC while running amp sims, but the difference is that I can move away from the PC or change my position relative to the PC to minimise the severity of the noise, whereas in the Fretlight the noise-inducing electronics are a permanent fixture that you can't get away from. There is one item on their FAQ page which suggests that noise is a known issue with the system, and that correct grounding is key to eliminating the problem (or at least making it tolerable). It appears to be mentioned in the "Troubleshooting" section of product manual too. On the flipside, there do seem to be plenty of videos of people using the guitars with lots of gain but no apparent noise issues, so I guess the noise can be tamed. It's a shame that it appears to be prone to induced noise, because I can see a lot of people would benefit from the system when starting out, and the guitar could act as a crossover point when transitioning between absolute beginner to live performances. To be fair, it is marketed as a training tool rather than a performance instrument. Perhaps going the extra distance to install a piezo pickup and full modeling system would push the price up to a point where the target market wouldn't be willing to pay for such a product? Either way, you've done an impressive job marrying the two systems together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantomaz Posted July 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) Thanks for your reply Curtisa, Thanks for the compliments, And, trust me, grounding/shielding has absolutely NOTHING to do with it, it is just an excuse that they have been using for a very long time.... Its just weak engineering from the start, If I had the time I would make a video to show you... :-) This is an authentic reply from the Optek/Fretlight customer service, just for fun... :-) "quote" Hello, Thank you for your order. Sorry that there is an issue with the guitar's sound and for any lack of providing that information. Please read through the following information. It will cover a lot of what you are already aware of but there are a few things to glean and a few options or workarounds. The Fretlight Learning System utilizes 132 LED’s, which naturally produce a slight electronic noise that, if improperly connected to your device and amp or if using the wrong settings or any effects, could be heard through your guitar's connected amp. A proper musical setup should ensure proper grounding with all powered items. Here are some optional solutions/workarounds for the noise: A. You can buy a noise gate to not hear the noise when it is not being played. When it is being played it should drown out most of the noise. (Refund of up to $100 with proof of purchase if you go this route but only if no other options are used). Amplitude has a nice noise gate if you have an iRig to go into an iOS device for sound modulation. B. You can buy and use a Fishman Triple Play (MIDI via a piezo) for its sound instead. (Refund of up to $100 with proof of purchase if you go this route but only if no other options are used). https://www.fishman.com/products/series/tripleplay/ C. You buy and install a piezo pickup saddle system or an under saddle piezo pickup for its sound instead. (Refund of up to $100 with proof of purchase if you go this route but only if no other options are used). http://www.graphtech.com/products/brands/ghost/ghost-pickups---guitar D. You could swap out the humbucker for something with super turned down highs that will naturally cut out the high-frequency noise a bit more. (Refund of up to $100 with proof of purchase if you go this route but only if no other options are used). http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/invader-bridge "unquote" THEY KNOW, THEY JUST DONT CARE... :-DDD Edited July 5, 2017 by fantomaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Yes, it sounds like tacit admission of the system causing noise in magnetic pickups. It certainly isn't how I would imagine defending my product. They made a lemon, and it seems that they have to sell them through with these big $100 refunds/discounts until they solve the issue. I would guess that the problem is "baked in" to the parts they can't modify, so until they can afford to develop a new version this is probably all they can do short of throwing in the towel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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