Ibanez headstock shape ?

[mistermikev]

On 1/17/2018 at 3:40 PM, Liquorice said:

Ok thanks, maybe I´ll try spool clamps on horns and squeeze the rest of body with some kind of clamping cauls. I remember that those pieces really came super slippery when there was glue between them. Some kind of indexing pin system would be great also. We´ll see what happens.

I´m using my "shop time" now mainly on other building projects, such as a desktop for myself and other furniture. My favorite wood by far is birch and that my table is going to be made out of. Not the easiest to work with, but it´s so good looking in my eyes and pretty cheap in here too. I bought few pieces and few were own woods and best looking pieces I just had to reserve for other use (guitars).

Cutting it in two was a really exciting incident. It started to cup and squeeze table saw´s blade and wanted to jump off the table, That wood in my hands and saw blade inside it raised my heartbeat a little. But as a reward there was really nice tiger effect on those pieces.

 

that is some realy nice wood there.

[ScottR]

1 hour ago, mistermikev said:

i don't mean to derail but you can't just drop a pick like that and not expect a guy to be like "MORE PLEASE".  that looks really cool!  I hearby petition you to do a thread showing me more!

Mike, those pics came from this thread:

 

SR

[mistermikev]

22 minutes ago, ScottR said:

Mike, those pics came from this thread:

 

SR

love it... you are quire the "carver"

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, mistermikev said:

i don't mean to derail but you can't just drop a pick like that and not expect a guy to be like "MORE PLEASE".  that looks really cool!  I hearby petition you to do a thread showing me more!

You can derail all you want, any input is welcomed warmly. And if you derail me I hope that all those tools and pieces of wood on the floors, kitchen table, livingroom and basically everywhere reminds me what I was doing

[mistermikev]

hehe, a little detail is a good thing now and then.  thanks for the 'pass'!

[Liquorice]

Finally these are remotely resembling guitars, I´m happy but there is still a lot of work ahead. 6 string on the left and 7 string on the right. Still no working pictures and I think unless something dramatically changes on my working environment there wont be either.

These necks have been bolted with larger bolts than usually so those inserts might look big. I also installed threaded inserts inside.

[Andyjr1515]

4 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Finally these are remotely resembling guitars, I´m happy but there is still a lot of work ahead. 6 string on the left and 7 string on the right. Still no working pictures and I think unless something dramatically changes on my working environment there wont be either.

These necks have been bolted with larger bolts than usually so those inserts might look big. I also installed threaded inserts inside.

Looking nice.  Threaded inserts are the way to go

[Mr Natural]

looking good dude- keep it up

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Looking nice.  Threaded inserts are the way to go

 

3 hours ago, Mr Natural said:

looking good dude- keep it up

Thanks a lot. No inlays, radius or frets on the fretboards yet. And still no final shape of the headstocks but I don´t stress about that anymore. I´ll shape them with handtools so the end up being one of a kind anyways. I would like to shape those headstocks this week and drill holes for tuners, locking nut and tremolo posts. New pics then maybe

[Liquorice]

Finally got around to do some drilling, locking nut holes and tuner holes. Also I shaped the back a little but had to leave a flat part to shape the fretboard. If I shape the neck last after fretting I´m afraid that neck might twist or bend in some weird way, maybe I could shape the neck now and do fretwork with some kind of supports on the rounded side.

Like I said earlier I have to take one for the team and drill next to a wide trussrod head and see what the results would be, It turned out great. It sure did poke out the sides of trussrod cavity, but the holes are so small that you can´t see much light coming from the holes.

I´ll just leave some kind of volute on the back side so hopefully it won´t fail on me on the long run.

I made two step holes for the tuners, I hope they line up close enough. Hard to drill accurately with wobbly bits and such an off balanced object, flat strat neck would be a piece of cake.

[Liquorice]

No progress on guitars in recent two months sadly. First month was furious christmas gift crafting and second month family/rest/flu related.

But I have been wondering about guitar electronics, because I have zero experience on guitar electronics. Never had to do any modding or pickup switching, I´ve just played those things. Atleast I know what I would like to have and what I don´t need.

• I would like to have two humbuckers with coil splitting.

having two humbuckers with 5-way switch is not enough if you want combination of neck,bridge,both with and without coil splitting. So do I need a push/pull pot for this plan and a 3-way switch ? I don´t need the best components, but then again I don´t want to cheap out on this and redo my pots anytime soon.

Is there anything else to look for on electrics? I´ve understood that with short shaft pot you can still have about 1/4" inch material on the guitar between knob and pot? Because I need one for pickguarded guitar and one without. And the type of shaft also apparently matters if you wan´t to install premade knobs, but I was planning to make wooden knobs so maybe solid shaft is best for that ?

I´m such a noob :)

[curtisa]

7 hours ago, Liquorice said:

• I would like to have two humbuckers with coil splitting.

having two humbuckers with 5-way switch is not enough if you want combination of neck,bridge,both with and without coil splitting. So do I need a push/pull pot for this plan and a 3-way switch ? I don´t need the best components, but then again I don´t want to cheap out on this and redo my pots anytime soon.

Coil split on a push/pull plus 3-way toggle is pretty common. If you're installing two pots (say 1x vol and 1x tone) you can even have each pot split each humbucker independently to give you any combination of humbucker and split across either pickup.

 

7 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Is there anything else to look for on electrics? I´ve understood that with short shaft pot you can still have about 1/4" inch material on the guitar between knob and pot? Because I need one for pickguarded guitar and one without.

A short shaft pot should work in anything with a wall thickness of 4mm or less, so plan your control cavity depths accordingly. Short shaft is really a 'standard' pot which are normally designed to mount in thin steel or aluminium. It's us guitarists who are the weirdos who have a need for the long shaft varieties, and even then it's only a requirement where design necessitates a particularly thick mounting surface (an LP for example).

 

7 hours ago, Liquorice said:

And the type of shaft also apparently matters if you wan´t to install premade knobs, but I was planning to make wooden knobs so maybe solid shaft is best for that ?

You'll only really come across a few varieties of pot shaft styles - 1/4" diameter solid shaft (with or without a flattened section, sometimes called a D profile) or 6mm splined. The solid shaft versions are designed for knobs which have a perpendicular grub screw installed or a integral collet which clamps onto the shaft a bit like a router bit. The splined shafts are designed for knobs with matching knurls machined into the body which simply push-fit onto the shaft of the pot (think Strat-style knobs). Splined shafts can be either 18-tooth or 24-tooth, and they are not interchangeable.

If you're making custom knobs up then it's up to you to decide what method to use to attach them to a shaft. My gut instinct is that you'll want to make up something that will work with pots fitted with 1/4" solid shafts, as it will be far easier to come up with something that will work with them rather than try to make something that will match an 18T or 24T spline shaft from scratch.

[Andyjr1515]

11 hours ago, Liquorice said:

No progress on guitars in recent two months sadly. First month was furious christmas gift crafting and second month family/rest/flu related.

But I have been wondering about guitar electronics, because I have zero experience on guitar electronics. Never had to do any modding or pickup switching, I´ve just played those things. Atleast I know what I would like to have and what I don´t need.

• I would like to have two humbuckers with coil splitting.

having two humbuckers with 5-way switch is not enough if you want combination of neck,bridge,both with and without coil splitting. So do I need a push/pull pot for this plan and a 3-way switch ? I don´t need the best components, but then again I don´t want to cheap out on this and redo my pots anytime soon.

Is there anything else to look for on electrics? I´ve understood that with short shaft pot you can still have about 1/4" inch material on the guitar between knob and pot? Because I need one for pickguarded guitar and one without. And the type of shaft also apparently matters if you wan´t to install premade knobs, but I was planning to make wooden knobs so maybe solid shaft is best for that ?

I´m such a noob

As @curtisa says, a 3 way and push pull pot is the usual way to go.  Both Alpha and CTS do push pull pots (basically a normal pot with an added DPDT (Dual pole dual throw) or SPDT (single pole dual throw) switch on stuck to the bottom.

There are good wiring diagrams on the Seymour Duncan web site (although the wiring colour convention of your pickups may be different to Seymour Duncans)

Just a couple of extra points.  The push pull switches are quite long and the chamber depth needs to be at least 28mm.   Because my guitars and basses are often thinner that that, I tend to use standard pots and mini toggle switches - but the wiring is identical.

The second is just terminology.  CTS are probably regarded as the 'standard' for guitars and they actually do three shaft lengths:

Short is actually pretty much ONLY usable with a scratchplate.  The threaded area is 6mm long and, once you have a washer and nut on, there is not enough room for much more than a scratchplate thickness.

Medium is I think what you and @curtisa  are referring to above.  This has a threaded length of 9.5mm and is the normal size for rear-mounted pots through a wooden top.

Long are - I think - 13mm threaded length and are for the very thick carve tops (pretty much just Gibson Les Pauls) as described by @curtisa and are not really practical or necessary for most guitars.

The Alpha push-pull pots that are readily available are generally the same as a CTS 'Medium' size at 9.5mm threaded length

 

In terms of whether you can use a Medium size with a scratchplate - yes you can if your control chamber is deep enough.  On some stratocaster- style bodies the rout is shallow and the Short ones need to be used

Hope this helps

[Liquorice]

Thank you both andy and curtisa, I really appreciate the time you have taken to answer my questions. Very informative and helpful. I tried to put your forum names as highlighted links, but something broke and couldn´t do anything to text after that. Had to close browser and relog for new reply.

Thickness on my bodies is around 44-45mm so I think there is plenty of room for electric components.

One thing I forgot to ask was about jacks for plugs, two types that I remember on top of my head (barrel and open type). I actually don´t even know what type my own guitars have. Never had a problem with those so never had to look under the hood.

• Witch ones to look for? I´ve understood that you can more easily tighten the open jack in case of loosened contact.
• What about stereo jacks? Active pickups like emgs might come with a stereo jack? In my own setup (guitar->pedal->amp) I don´t think I need stereo jack, but in what case would I or someone else need one?

[Andyjr1515]

6 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Thank you both andy and curtisa, I really appreciate the time you have taken to answer my questions. Very informative and helpful. I tried to put your forum names as highlighted links, but something broke and couldn´t do anything to text after that. Had to close browser and relog for new reply.

Thickness on my bodies is around 44-45mm so I think there is plenty of room for electric components.

One thing I forgot to ask was about jacks for plugs, two types that I remember on top of my head (barrel and open type). I actually don´t even know what type my own guitars have. Never had a problem with those so never had to look under the hood.

• Witch ones to look for? I´ve understood that you can more easily tighten the open jack in case of loosened contact.
• What about stereo jacks? Active pickups like emgs might come with a stereo jack? In my own setup (guitar->pedal->amp) I don´t think I need stereo jack, but in what case would I or someone else need one?

Open type are best - and go for Switchcraft ones...they should outlive the guitar.  For passive pickups without a powered EQ then a mono jack is fine.  The barrel jacks are notoriously unreliable.  Again, Switchcraft are better than most but they will not last anywhere near as long as a standard Switchcraft open type. 

If anything needs a battery, then a stereo jack allows the power to only switch on when the jack is plugged in.

With my last build, the owner asked for a stereo plug (even though it's wired as mono) because he believes they are less likely to pull out.  I'm unconvinced it makes a big difference.

Switchcraft ones are VERY unlikely to 'open up'.  This is why they are better - it's proper spring steel on the contacts.

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Open type are best - and go for Switchcraft ones...they should outlive the guitar.  For passive pickups without a powered EQ then a mono jack is fine.  The barrel jacks are notoriously unreliable.  Again, Switchcraft are better than most but they will not last anywhere near as long as a standard Switchcraft open type. 

If anything needs a battery, then a stereo jack allows the power to only switch on when the jack is plugged in.

With my last build, the owner asked for a stereo plug (even though it's wired as mono) because he believes they are less likely to pull out.  I'm unconvinced it makes a big difference.

Switchcraft ones are VERY unlikely to 'open up'.  This is why they are better - it's proper spring steel on the contacts.

Nice, thanks alot. I have one guitar with tone control and one without it. I´ve noticed that I never use the tone knob, It´s always on full. Maybe I´ll just buy a bunch of everything and try those on, since it looks like that electric parts are pretty cheap compared to other guitar parts.

Then there is the whole art of soldering and what goes to where, but I´ll get back to that when I have that task at hand. 

[Liquorice]

I know I promised not to bother you guys untill I get the project going again, but I´m in a pickle here. I have to order those pots and I´ll get various types of CTS or Alpha and not anything cheap, that´s settled. 

But if I have 4-conductor pickups do I need 4-conductor wire for anything or should I just order single conductor wire for everything connected in my circuit? Trying to make a list of things to order on the same package.

[Andyjr1515]

5 hours ago, Liquorice said:

I know I promised not to bother you guys untill I get the project going again, but I´m in a pickle here. I have to order those pots and I´ll get various types of CTS or Alpha and not anything cheap, that´s settled. 

But if I have 4-conductor pickups do I need 4-conductor wire for anything or should I just order single conductor wire for everything connected in my circuit? Trying to make a list of things to order on the same package.

It's never any bother.  Probably @curtisa is a better one to comment, but in my view, you certainly shouldn't need 4 conductor wire. 

Personally, where I have a long cable run, I use screened wire (inner 'hot' wire, surrounded by a fine wire mesh that you then ground) but most of the time I use standard single wire.  I do line and ground the control chamber in sticky backed copper foil to minimise mains hum.

Anyone else?

[mistermikev]

not that yer asking me but... assuming you shield your cavity, I don't believe there is much benefit to additional shielding via shielded wire.  the exception to that would be on (for instance) a les paul where you are going to have some long runs through channels that inevitably can't be shielded.  In that case I actually have used 4 conductor as it covers live, each pickup, and a secondary ground that I would only connect on one end.  I have read a few arguments that suggest shielded wire should be avoided when not necc as it can bleed highs... but lets not go down that rabbit hole.

now, the real hot toppic: stranded or solid core?  me, I'm a solid core man, always have been.  I hate stranded (unless you get up to bigger gauges, then solid core sux).

 

[curtisa]

7 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

It's never any bother.  Probably @curtisa is a better one to comment, but in my view, you certainly shouldn't need 4 conductor wire. 

Personally, where I have a long cable run, I use screened wire (inner 'hot' wire, surrounded by a fine wire mesh that you then ground) but most of the time I use standard single wire.  I do line and ground the control chamber in sticky backed copper foil to minimise mains hum.

Anyone else?

Go single conductor unless you need shielded due to susceptibility to hum (long wire runs between different cavities, or from single coil pickups would be the only real ones to worry about). If your control cavity is screened/shielded and your wires are only being run within that cavity, just use single conductor - the addition of screened wiring inside the cavity serves no real purpose other than to make the wiring more difficult to execute cleanly.

Stranded wire is better for longevity in situations where vibration is a problem due to the inability of solid core wire to flex repeatedly without breaking, but unless you're in the habit of diving into the moshpit every 15 minutes at a gig while playing the guitar you're unlikely to encounter issues with solid vs stranded wiring.

[mistermikev]

12 hours ago, curtisa said:

Go single conductor unless you need shielded due to susceptibility to hum (long wire runs between different cavities, or from single coil pickups would be the only real ones to worry about). If your control cavity is screened/shielded and your wires are only being run within that cavity, just use single conductor - the addition of screened wiring inside the cavity serves no real purpose other than to make the wiring more difficult to execute cleanly.

Stranded wire is better for longevity in situations where vibration is a problem due to the inability of solid core wire to flex repeatedly without breaking, but unless you're in the habit of diving into the moshpit every 15 minutes at a gig while playing the guitar you're unlikely to encounter issues with solid vs stranded wiring.

all good points and I'd take curtisa's advice like platnium. 

i feel compelled to explain why I don't like stranded... perhaps you'll convert me.  it's because I use a multi gauge stripper(lazy) and always rip off one or two strands on both ends.  Then... once that stranded wire is tinned... it's really solid core where it makes a connection.  Using 26awg the solid core takes a surprising amount of abuse to bend/break.  For that reason I have two spools of stew mac stranded wire from 1998!  I suppose the problem is more me than the wire... but I also love how solid core can be bent to conform and look "neat" in a wireup.  pretty vain I 'spose!  I guess I'm just "big endian" in a "little endian" world! 

also I have scientific proof that solid core carries sound molecules better... it's scientific.  It's exactly why no one can get srv tone... lotta folks don't know he used solid core wire.

[Liquorice]

On 1/21/2019 at 9:32 PM, Andyjr1515 said:

It's never any bother.  Probably @curtisa is a better one to comment, but in my view, you certainly shouldn't need 4 conductor wire. 

Personally, where I have a long cable run, I use screened wire (inner 'hot' wire, surrounded by a fine wire mesh that you then ground) but most of the time I use standard single wire.  I do line and ground the control chamber in sticky backed copper foil to minimise mains hum.

Anyone else?

These bodies won´t have long cables, mainly control cavity, pickups, jack cavity and trem grounding. Or atleast I think these won´t count as long ones?

On 1/22/2019 at 4:25 AM, mistermikev said:

not that yer asking me but... assuming you shield your cavity, I don't believe there is much benefit to additional shielding via shielded wire.  the exception to that would be on (for instance) a les paul where you are going to have some long runs through channels that inevitably can't be shielded.  In that case I actually have used 4 conductor as it covers live, each pickup, and a secondary ground that I would only connect on one end.  I have read a few arguments that suggest shielded wire should be avoided when not necc as it can bleed highs... but lets not go down that rabbit hole.

 now, the real hot toppic: stranded or solid core?  me, I'm a solid core man, always have been.  I hate stranded (unless you get up to bigger gauges, then solid core sux).

I´m asking anyone who reads this and is willing to share the time and knowledge, maybe @Andyjr1515   was also? Actually I was kinda dreaming to have clear covers on electronics cavities, so it wouldn´t be possible to completely shield that. Maybe there´s a good reason why most covers are not transparent . I thought that you don´t need to shield your cavities if you use shielded wires, saw some video about that. At this point I´m not interested in tone at all, as long as I have eq on amps and such I´m fine.

On 1/22/2019 at 5:39 AM, curtisa said:

Go single conductor unless you need shielded due to susceptibility to hum (long wire runs between different cavities, or from single coil pickups would be the only real ones to worry about). If your control cavity is screened/shielded and your wires are only being run within that cavity, just use single conductor - the addition of screened wiring inside the cavity serves no real purpose other than to make the wiring more difficult to execute cleanly.

Stranded wire is better for longevity in situations where vibration is a problem due to the inability of solid core wire to flex repeatedly without breaking, but unless you're in the habit of diving into the moshpit every 15 minutes at a gig while playing the guitar you're unlikely to encounter issues with solid vs stranded wiring.

Does it beat the purpose of shielded wire if you have ends exposed, where the solder joints are? Or is it adequate if you have majority of the wire covered? Even before any installing experience I was thinking how to actually use that wire succesfully, in a clean and easy way. What part of the interference does this shielding remove? Is it the constant humming/buzzing, or that and the contact humming when you touch pickups? Or is the contact humming a grounding issue?

After reading your comments I have no idea what to buy 

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

These bodies won´t have long cables, mainly control cavity, pickups, jack cavity and trem grounding. Or atleast I think these won´t count as long ones?

I´m asking anyone who reads this and is willing to share the time and knowledge, maybe @Andyjr1515   was also? Actually I was kinda dreaming to have clear covers on electronics cavities, so it wouldn´t be possible to completely shield that. Maybe there´s a good reason why most covers are not transparent . I thought that you don´t need to shield your cavities if you use shielded wires, saw some video about that. At this point I´m not interested in tone at all, as long as I have eq on amps and such I´m fine.

Does it beat the purpose of shielded wire if you have ends exposed, where the solder joints are? Or is it adequate if you have majority of the wire covered? Even before any installing experience I was thinking how to actually use that wire succesfully, in a clean and easy way. What part of the interference does this shielding remove? Is it the constant humming/buzzing, or that and the contact humming when you touch pickups? Or is the contact humming a grounding issue?

After reading your comments I have no idea what to buy 

no expert... but I AM available so...

all rules are meant to be broken but if you were playing in bars a lot, or recording in a room with a computer... I think you'd find zero shielding would result in problems.  Humbuckers are generally shielded better... emgs are really defended well against noise - sort of a built in noise cancellation.  They don't require a ground to the strings... but I digress. 

You could use shielded wire everywhere but everywhere you break away from that shield on the wire - ie the ends you are talking about - would be a source for noise. 

One solution: you could use fine wire mesh on the clear backplate.  I would think door screen would work pretty good.  If you grounded it you wouldn't need shielded wire other than on the pickups.  Obviously shield the rest of the cavity too.  sand some leds flat and glue em to the covers too???!???? eh???

afa long cavity... it's not the length as much as it is the lack of shielding.  in a lp for instance... the ctrl-cav is shielded (generally) but the route between there and the toggle is not.  that said: look at a 335.  not much one can do there.  I don't know of anyone who shields the inside of them.  Lots of folks use shielded wire for every connection... so it can work.   You want to really kill it you could use liquid tape to cover all connections, then use shielding paint over the liquid tape.

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, mistermikev said:

all rules are meant to be broken but if you were playing in bars a lot, or recording in a room with a computer... I think you'd find zero shielding would result in problems.  Humbuckers are generally shielded better... emgs are really defended well against noise - sort of a built in noise cancellation.  They don't require a ground to the strings... but I digress. 

Oh I see, No gigs on my schedule for now I have emgs on my guitar and have wondered about that shielding and lack of grounding, but it all seems to work great.

2 hours ago, mistermikev said:

One solution: you could use fine wire mesh on the clear backplate.  I would think door screen would work pretty good.  If you grounded it you wouldn't need shielded wire other than on the pickups.  Obviously shield the rest of the cavity too.  sand some leds flat and glue em to the covers too???!???? eh???

2 hours ago, mistermikev said:

You want to really kill it you could use liquid tape to cover all connections, then use shielding paint over the liquid tape.

Great idea, I´ll see what happens. I don´t want to overdo it either

 

 

[Norris]

The key is to shield the signal wires somehow, and that can be achieved two ways. Either shield the cavity with copper tape / graphite paint, or use shielded wires. Using shielded cables is more of a faff for wiring up, which is why most people shield the cavity. Cavity shielding can give more coverage, but I certainly wouldn't fret about the exposed ends of shielded cables. As long as you keep the shielding braid as long as practical*, and connect it to ground, it should keep the hum down

* i.e. leave as little exposed signal wire as possible